Book of Death: Legends of the Geomancer

[DirtbagSailor]

...ultimately their doom...

Ok, PR issues aside, I'm not convinced that this "maneuver" spells their doom. Might be a tab bit over the top on that one.

This is not the book that ends, what appears to be, upward momentum to significantly expanded industry influence.

[FormerReader]

This basically proves two points I been harping about Valiant...Number one, they suck at promoting themselves and need to outsource their public relation/promotional department to a legitimate advertising agency who knows how to target the widest demographic, not comic book nerds pretending to be businesspeople (Comic shop owners). Number two, If promoting a exclusive story to a comic book dealer or anyone willing to order large quantities of single issue just to receive this rare story, then this company isn't thinking long term. This is short con job and it's a going bite them in the *SQUEE* because eventually they will reprint it or make it available to everyone, and thus original so called rare story will be nothing more than overpriced variant.

Valiant needs help and it shouldn't be coming from the people who came up with this jackbag promotion. It's idiotic to think that comic book dealers read everything they sell and remotely care about some rare story. All they see is money to be made by jacking up the price. It's a short con and Valiant are being enablers and ultimately their doom.

Are you always this pleasant?

[agent_graves]

I understand the frustration, for those that might not be able to read it, first day, I too, like to have my books on the day they're released, but, I must say, I'm a variant junkie, and whenever I buy a variant at a higher price, it has the same content as the one I paid regular price for, so I actually like this incentive much better because, I'm actually getting story content, that adds to the main story.

IMHO, this is, a great idea...

[betterthanezra]

This basically proves two points I been harping about Valiant...Number one, they suck at promoting themselves and need to outsource their public relation/promotional department to a legitimate advertising agency who knows how to target the widest demographic, not comic book nerds pretending to be businesspeople (Comic shop owners). Number two, If promoting a exclusive story to a comic book dealer or anyone willing to order large quantities of single issue just to receive this rare story, then this company isn't thinking long term. This is short con job and it's a going bite them in the *SQUEE* because eventually they will reprint it or make it available to everyone, and thus original so called rare story will be nothing more than overpriced variant.

Valiant needs help and it shouldn't be coming from the people who came up with this jackbag promotion. It's idiotic to think that comic book dealers read everything they sell and remotely care about some rare story. All they see is money to be made by jacking up the price. It's a short con and Valiant are being enablers and ultimately their doom.

Frustration aside REALLY there DOOM....????

Come on..

-Brian

[depluto]

I'll get these books sooner or later.

[geocarr]

I'll get these books sooner or later.

Exactly. KEEP CALM AND READ VALIANT

[greg]

nothing more than overpriced variant

Sorry, I read this part of your quote and realized I didn't know which publisher you were talking about.

From what I can tell, the following publishers OFTEN print "nothing more than overpriced variant":

Marvel
DC
Image
Dark Horse
Boom
IDW
Dynamite

Each one of these publishers sells more comics each month than Valiant.

So... I'm going to assume that most of your posts mentioning "getting a legitimate advertising agency" means that you believe you work for a "legitimate advertising agency" and that these other publishers have already declined to hire you.

Stop being so transparent.
(Or in the words of Warren Ellis...)

As far as your "legitimate advertising agency" goes... I predict DOOOOOOOOOM!

[ErikG]

So it looks like "Legends" will be allocated on a 1:25 basis for #1, and subsequently at a 1:10 ratio for the subsequent issues...

Okay. So, FWIW, here's what I'll be doing...

I'll be dropping all of my Valiant titles prior to the "Book of Death" event, which is all nine monthlies, and walking away for good.

Why?

Because it's the principle of the thing, this pandering to speculation, this blatant unfairness to loyal readers everywhere, and what I consider to be extraordinary short-sightedness on the part of VEI, which does not bode well for the future.

I like lorddunlow's suggestion that "Legends" be distributed on the basis of 1 copy for every order for all nine monthlies. That's fair to loyalists, and even to those among us who crave scarcity. But I doubt it will happen.

So, unless things change, I'm out.

Look at where I live. My comic shop phone VEI? Forget it.

Total "SQUEE" all the way.

And maybe Dinesh should remember what it was like for him back in Causeway Bay and how he would have reacted to this back then...

[greg]

No... don't go!!! They'll never survive without...

Forget it.

There was no way Valiant was going to make every person happy for 36 months in every decision they ever make.

Anyone who can be "out for good" because they don't THINK they'll be able to get their hands on 24 pages of material as quickly and cheaply as they want... should be gone.

We're a team, and the coach says... "Guys! I want you to work a little harder!"

Any player that wants to quit... should.

That's not VEI talking.

It's not even me talking.

It's logic.

Bye.

[wwise03]

After giving it further thought, I don't really care. I know I'll buy the books at whatever price I can find them for because I have every other single issue VEI has put out. They look awesome!

Now, what is this Shadowman 13X thing? I say I have every single issue VEI has put out, but I don't have that. What is it exactly? Just a preview of Shadowman 13? Is it it's own issue? What?

[jeremycoe]

After giving it further thought, I don't really care. I know I'll buy the books at whatever price I can find them for because I have every other single issue VEI has put out. They look awesome!

Now, what is this Shadowman 13X thing? I say I have every single issue VEI has put out, but I don't have that. What is it exactly? Just a preview of Shadowman 13? Is it it's own issue? What?

It's an original story. It takes place before Shadowman 13. It was included with an issue of Bleeding Cool.

[Magnus9178]

Honestly, I don't see this book being hard to get at all. With our LCSs knowing who the big fans are and people like Ed looking out for us then I'm sure we're all going to be able to get this book for a reasonable price. All in all I'm not sure why people are worried or even throwing a fit about it. Basically I have faith it'll work out in the end.

[lorddunlow]

There was no way Valiant was going to make every person happy for 36 months in every decision they ever make.

QFT

I understand this. I understand what they are trying to do. I just don't like it at all. It ticks me off. But, they can't cater to me alone (they'd have folded before Forbidden Planet could even make a prediction if they did). I loved Umbral, but my love of the book and efforts to get others to read couldn't keep that book profitable.

I'm not dropping Valiant, but I think they are becoming sufficiently popular enough that they don't need my fanatical support by buying titles I don't like. There are books by other publishers who are in more need of my financial support, so Q&W and other VEI dreck (which is very very rare) will no longer be purchased by me.

I'll continue buying the heck outta Rai, X-O, Bloodshot, Eternal Warrior (if it comes back), etc. But VEI, is getting the same treatment from me as any other publisher. They've made it difficult for me to get all of the story, and that's the most important thing to me.

I think Dino, Fred, Warren, etc. do a fine job running this company that many were worried was doomed from the beginning. They do a lot of things right. This was a rare misstep in my opinion.

[agent_graves]

So it looks like "Legends" will be allocated on a 1:25 basis for #1, and subsequently at a 1:10 ratio for the subsequent issues...

Okay. So, FWIW, here's what I'll be doing...

I'll be dropping all of my Valiant titles prior to the "Book of Death" event, which is all nine monthlies, and walking away for good.

Why?

Because it's the principle of the thing, this pandering to speculation, this blatant unfairness to loyal readers everywhere, and what I consider to be extraordinary short-sightedness on the part of VEI, which does not bode well for the future.

I like lorddunlow's suggestion that "Legends" be distributed on the basis of 1 copy for every order for all nine monthlies. That's fair to loyalists, and even to those among us who crave scarcity. But I doubt it will happen.

So, unless things change, I'm out.

Look at where I live. My comic shop phone VEI? Forget it.

Total "SQUEE" all the way.

And maybe Dinesh should remember what it was like for him back in Causeway Bay and how he would have reacted to this back then...

You have that right, to walk away, but, why not just order the book online?

[ErikG]

Sorry, Greg. It may be logic, but I consider it flawed logic. Who is this "team" you talk about? VEI and us? Okay, that analogy may be suitable. A team works together and the team members look out for one another. The coach expects his players to give their all -- but the players expect the coach to be fair to them.

I've been fair to VEI. I've purchased every issue they've put out so far, even those I didn't much care for, because I wanted VEI to succeed. And yes, I do understand that one cannot be satisfied with everything all the time. That didn't much matter, because, yes, I was there for the team, even if sometimes I felt the coach screwed up.

With this "Legends" incentive, VEI expects me to go the extra long mile for it, to badger my LCS to over-order the Books of Death and so probably force me to pay the equivalent of $100 for the first issue of "Legends -- which is over twice the price of a Deluxe hardcover -- and, if I fail to get it, make me look for it from a retailer in the States, for whom I have no loyalty, at vastly increased expense, given where I live -- and I'm talking postal charges as well.

To go back to the team analogy: Is the coach being fair to me? As I said in an earlier post, VEI is NOT a charity. It's a business. It puts out a product, hoping I will buy it. I've done my bit; I've bought the product, all of it. But please do not expect me to bleed money for a 24-page item that could have been supplied to readers in a friendlier manner. So I don't think the coach is being fair to me. Supply me with the product and I'll buy it -- but do not make it difficult for me to get it.

And if you look again at my post, you'll see that I mention that it's also the principle of the thing that matters to me. I don't much care for the thinking behind it. I don't like where it could lead. In analogous terms -- I don't much care for what this shows about the coach's game-plan for the future. As I'm a completist, I'm either in for all the titles VEI puts out, or I'm out. After fifty years of collecting comics, I've been around the block numerous times, and I'm not taking that road again, hunting desperately everywhere to fill gaps in my collection. Those days are over. That's just me. I'm not important to VEI. My walking away won't make much of a difference. But I suspect there are others out there who feel the same way I do, and that is what is important.

[Brapbrap]

I'll get these books sooner or later.

Exactly. KEEP CALM AND READ VALIANT

*SQUEE* that, if you aren't happy with this business model then you should not support it.

if you complain about a book and then buy it anyway then we will end up just like marvel fans where marvel publishes garbage like spider-verse solely to annoy fans and drum up controversy because they know they all buy it anyway

No... don't go!!! They'll never survive without...

Forget it.

There was no way Valiant was going to make every person happy for 36 months in every decision they ever make.

Anyone who can be "out for good" because they don't THINK they'll be able to get their hands on 24 pages of material as quickly and cheaply as they want... should be gone.

We're a team, and the coach says... "Guys! I want you to work a little harder!"

Any player that wants to quit... should.

That's not VEI talking.

It's not even me talking.

It's logic.

Bye.

we're not a team, I am a fan of valiant. when they make decisions like this that screw me out of owning a comic that I would love to own it makes me less of a fan. At the end of the day Valiant is a company that exists by taking my money and if they can't give me what I want in return then I don't have any reason to give them my money.

I wouldn't care if it was just some bonus stuff in the back of Book of Death like the Rai Plus issues but when they withhold from me a story that I have been waiting since the second arc of A&A to read it *SQUEE* me off.

[depluto]

I'll get these books sooner or later.

Exactly. KEEP CALM AND READ VALIANT

*SQUEE* that, if you aren't happy with this business model then you should not support it.

if you complain about a book and then buy it anyway then we will end up just like marvel fans where marvel publishes garbage like spider-verse solely to annoy fans and drum up controversy because they know they all buy it anyway

I'm not unhappy or happy with it. I'm just saying if the books are available to me I will get them. I used to get riled about the hard-to-get stuff but now I just go with what's there for me.

I think everyone should vote with their wallets, like always. I love the VEI books so I will just see what happens.

[Elveen]

I love that so much passion comes from these books.

I look forward to reading this book.

[lorddunlow]

I love that so much passion comes from these books.

I look forward to reading this book.

This is going to sound snarky, but there is no way to make it not sound that way. I promise this is not snark:

Of course you do. You will get a digital copy to review for OTV and as such will not have any problem or bear any expense to obtain it. (And I do realize that you pay to buy your own personal copies of VEI books to support the company - this is not a slight at you or OTV)

I look forward to this book, too, but I fear I will either be A) waiting several months for the privilege of purchasing it digitally after its contents are likely spoiled somewhere that I stumble upon or B) pay out the nose for copies of this story.

That rubs me raw.

I am honestly happy for you and others who will have no difficulty obtaining this story. It just sucks for the rest of the fans.

[Aram]

How upset would you have been if Valiant made Armor Hunters Epilogue only available at Midtown Comics? That's the equivalent to what they are doing with this distribution.

I'd actually be OK with that, as I would just order it from Midtown. Marvel and DC had these promotional comics throughout the decades. Wizard 1/2 books were the same. I never did both to get X-O 1/2 when it came out. It's not a key book, and it's probably a one-off thing, for this storyline. It's not like they are doing this all the time. The fact that it's causing so much debate and concern shows that it's innovative. I think it's a great idea. I'm not concerned in the slightest, but I can understand how some people might be annoyed. It definitely puts a barrier on reading the content right away, or in a way that people want. That being said, I do think it will be coveted, and we all like coveted items. Magnus 0. Harbinger Pink. Kotaki Error (I so want one!). I think it will be really fun, and some people will get to read it early, and others will have to wait, just like Harbinger Pink/Blue.

Honestly, either way, I'll read it late. I just finally read Armor Hunters last month. I'm always late to the game. It does let me read them all in one afternoon

+1

[Aram]

Fred Pierce mentioned Harbinger #0. So, how much worse would it be if we had to mutilate 6 comics, like Harbinger #0 required?

This is no big deal. If it's like Harbinger #0, then it will be included with a future trade paperback.

How many Valiant 1991 and 1992 issues did I have to wait YEARS to read? Lots of them.

The trades didn't come out the next month after the arc. It was years.

Stop whining and think back.

We're not cutting up our comics.
We're not waiting years.
We don't even know that the book will be expensive.

Perspective.

Like all things, perspective changes with time. I am now accustomed, thanks to technology, to reading my comics on my iPad on the day they are published. That is what I have come to expect, because that is what has been made available to me by the comic book industry. So why now should that be taken away?

Harbinger #0 was 25 years ago. It was commonplace then to mail in coupons and recieve books months later. It was commonplace to search for months, or years, for a book because the internet didn't exist. Now it does.

Sorry, this isn't innovative, it's annoying. Call me a spoiled brat, but I'm only that way because it's what VEI has made me

The internet did exist, it just wasn't mainstream until 95 with windows 95 and AOL.

bbs and dialup servers ftw!

[FormerReader]

So it looks like "Legends" will be allocated on a 1:25 basis for #1, and subsequently at a 1:10 ratio for the subsequent issues...

Okay. So, FWIW, here's what I'll be doing...

I'll be dropping all of my Valiant titles prior to the "Book of Death" event, which is all nine monthlies, and walking away for good.

Why?

Because it's the principle of the thing, this pandering to speculation, this blatant unfairness to loyal readers everywhere, and what I consider to be extraordinary short-sightedness on the part of VEI, which does not bode well for the future.

I like lorddunlow's suggestion that "Legends" be distributed on the basis of 1 copy for every order for all nine monthlies. That's fair to loyalists, and even to those among us who crave scarcity. But I doubt it will happen.

So, unless things change, I'm out.

Look at where I live. My comic shop phone VEI? Forget it.

Total "SQUEE" all the way.

And maybe Dinesh should remember what it was like for him back in Causeway Bay and how he would have reacted to this back then...

Boy you sure are dramatic. Have you thought about taking up acting?

It is a comic book you will be able to purchase on ebay for $10 shortly after it's release.

Some of you guys are ridiculous as fans. "The company didn't do everything they way I wanted so now I don't like them anymore". Whatever happened to the excitement you get from the chase of trying to find the exclusive issues? What happened to just not buying the issue if you don't like it?

[SJS4]

Fwiw i will be trying my best to get this series, but i totally get why folks are not happy. I don't think what they are doing is a good idea. Whatever hype they get from speculators will be more than offset by annoyed loyal readers who aren't able to get a copy.

Just think about it logically. If book of death is a huge hit and VEI sells 50,000 of them, they will only distribute 2,000 "Legends" issues. There are probably 4-5,000 legit readers. So right off the bat you are guaranteed tgat more than half your readers will not be able to get the series. If the speculators get in on the action it is very possible that half of those distributed copies get bought and hoarded. Now you are looking at excluding 75% of your readers.

At the same time you are also guaranteed thst thr main book of death series will be overprinted, neaning those issues will be worthless in tge future.

Just doesn't seem like a good long term plan.

[greg]

Harbinger #0 Pink - 3,500 copies earned... when readers were around 50,000+.

Harbinger #0 Blue - 100,000 copies... always a one dollar book, even today.

Same story in both books.

Fred Pierce said this Geomancer book is like Harbinger #0.

So... what's the real problem?

[Aram]

Actually, here is a closer break-down.

IF Book of Death #1 has 20,000 9,000 orders, then it is reasonable to assume that 800360 copies of Book of Death: Legends of the Geomancer will be made availible to retailers.

IF Book of Death #1 has 25,000 4,000 orders, then it is reasonable to assume that 1,000 400 copies of Book of Death: Legends of the Geomancer will be made availible to retailers.

IF Book of Death #1 has 30,000 3,750 orders, then it is reasonable to assume that 1,200 375 copies of Book of Death: Legends of the Geomancer will be made availible to retailers.

IF Book of Death #1 has 37,500 3,250 orders, then it is reasonable to assume that 1,500 325 copies of Book of Death: Legends of the Geomancer will be made availible to retailers.

Fixed that for you.