Book of Death: Legends of the Geomancer

[ilzuccone]

Ehhhhhh. I get some of the upset posts but when has valiant done anything other than be 100% fan oriented. I'm not worried about this.

What's this I hear about the 3d cover? Sucks it dropped in value but you do realize you spend 3-5$ on a floppy and as soon as that money goes into the register the resale value drops to 15 cents up to a buck.
That's comics for you

[jeremycoe]

They are making a product that you can choose to purchase or choose not to. Those who want it will find a way to get it. Count me as one who thinks it's a cool idea.

No. They are not doing that. They are making a product that only some can purchase. When boiled down to that, it doesn't make any sense. (I do understand why they are doing it - promotional gimmick) Why limit your audience to a book? That's crazy.

I'll preface the following with an acknowledgement that I have no idea what will be required by a retailer to qualify (maybe they get one book for ordering one of each of VEI's other books, maybe one for each isssue of Book of the Dead plus one-shots, maybe they have to order more than copies of Unity #1, who knows?):

I will likely not be able to purchase this book from my LCS. Unless it is some really small order that qualifies, I will have to go elsewhere. You may say, "well, then get another LCS or order from DCBS". I don't like that. I like to support my LCS. I am lucky to have a shop as close as mine is, and to be perfectly honest, the only reason I buy from him at all is to show support - he's a great guy with great staff. He runs the place essentially by himself (only has 2 employees who are essentially patrons who he pays to check people out so he doesn't have to physically be there 7 days a week open to close). His shop is in an area of town that, much like the comics industry, boomed in the late 80s and 90s, but then became a "bad part of town". (The biggest shopping center in the metro area was about 1000ft from his shop and it was a very affluent area; another mall was built about 1997 and this area saw a huge economic downturn.) He continues to support his family there and they are all very nice people. Things like this hurt his shop. I cannot expect him to "order big" just to get this incentive for me when it will hurt him. True, I could order enough copies of whatever to qualify, but why the hell do I need more than one copy of a book that will be worth pennies in a few months? And if you're saying by having that option, then I can "choose to purchase or choose not to", then you would have to divide out your cost for each extra book plus the cost of this limited series by the number of copies of the limited series. If that comes to $15 a book, then VEI is just saying "hey, we're making this book $15 an issue". If they just said it was $15 on the cover, they would probably sell and print just as limited a number because only idiots and rabid fans would pay that much for a single comic issue.

Like I said, I have no idea what the requirements will be, but this does not make me happy at the current time with the information we have. This reeks of not having enough readers, so bleed the true fans dry. I hope I am wrong about this. Please VEI/Dino - make me pleasantly surprised.

If you want it, you will be able to buy it. I didn't say you'd be able to buy at your preferred store or at your preferred price.

[jeremycoe]

By the way, I'd love to have a LCS that I cared enough about to support. There is a shop 15 minutes away from me, but everytime I go in there I feel out of place and if I ask a question they are almost always clueless. There is a LCS about 50 minutes from me that I like, but can't justify that long of a trip to buy my comics (not to my wife at least ).

[Ricomortis]

By the way, I'd love to have a LCS that I cared enough about to support. There is a shop 15 minutes away from me, but everytime I go in there I feel out of place and if I ask a question they are almost always clueless. There is a LCS about 50 minutes from me that I like, but can't justify that long of a trip to buy my comics (not to my wife at least ).

Uhhh, try 110 miles to the closest one.... And talk about clueless!

Rico

[Elveen]

Ehhhhhh. I get some of the upset posts but when has valiant done anything other than be 100% fan oriented. I'm not worried about this.

What's this I hear about the 3d cover? Sucks it dropped in value but you do realize you spend 3-5$ on a floppy and as soon as that money goes into the register the resale value drops to 15 cents up to a buck.
That's comics for you

That sounds like most products that are sold.

[Elveen]

Ehhhhhh. I get some of the upset posts but when has valiant done anything other than be 100% fan oriented. I'm not worried about this.

What's this I hear about the 3d cover? Sucks it dropped in value but you do realize you spend 3-5$ on a floppy and as soon as that money goes into the register the resale value drops to 15 cents up to a buck.
That's comics for you

That sounds like most products that are sold.

What % of products sold go up in value after purchase?

[lorddunlow]

Ehhhhhh. I get some of the upset posts but when has valiant done anything other than be 100% fan oriented. I'm not worried about this.

What's this I hear about the 3d cover? Sucks it dropped in value but you do realize you spend 3-5$ on a floppy and as soon as that money goes into the register the resale value drops to 15 cents up to a buck.
That's comics for you

That sounds like most products that are sold.

What % of products sold go up in value after purchase?

Pretty much nothing.

That's not what bothers me. What bothers me is it is an entire series that I cannot simply order and purchase.

[ErikG]

I'm with lorddunlow on this one. I too support my LCS, which is much the same as his. But there are too few Valiant customers, even though the guy in charge pushes Valiant every chance he gets. But there's just too much product out there -- prices being what they are, customers stick to what they know: Marvel, DC, Image. They don't have extra cash for Valiant or other small publishers.

Those of you who are prepared to shell out big bucks for variant covers... Fine, I understand that. I'm a collector too, although not of covers, just story, but this kind of thing does not benefit readers. The retailer orders, say, 20 or 50 copies of a regular title in order to get that special 1:20 or 1:50 variant cover, and sells that variant at a price that will at least cover the costs of getting the regular copies, many of which will remain unsold, or end up in a $1 sale bin. How many new readers has that variant cover brought in?

And so we look at sales figures for Valiant titles. I think I read elsewhere on this Board that 45 000 copies of Bloodshot Reborn #1 have been ordered. Okay. Good at first glance. But numerous variant covers were solicited for that issue. What ratios? The "sales" figures do not reflect either customer purchases or readers, because I suspect that the order for 45 000 includes retailer purchases made for the sole reason of obtaining limited variant covers, which will either be sold at high prices to a few customers, or put up on ebay for exhorbitant amounts. New readers? I don't think so.

To Elveen: The 'heat' generated by a hard-to-find issue does not benefit either VEI or the loyal reader. It may benefit a retailer here and there, but VEI can only grow if it puts out stories that people want to read, not stash in plastic for a possible high price one day. I suspect VEI realises this -- because why else go to second or third printings on certain titles? If 'heat' is necessary, then why reprint? If you don't reprint, the relative scarcity of the First Printing will generate heat and drive up the back issue prices.

agent_graves believes we should support the monthlies. That's what I've been doing. All of us here support VEI -- but VEI is not a charity. What about VEI supporting its loyal readers instead by not going the limited incentive issue route as they appear to be doing now? They should make it easy for us to access their product. I don't know what will happen with "Legends" or what the ratios will be, but they're not helping us by pandering to greed and speculation, which is essentially what this appears to be.

The LCS owner is mired in a 'Convergence-Secret Wars-Post New 52-New Marvel Post-Secret Wars' series of events, is already overwhelmed by product, and will be even more in July-August, thanks to the "new" DC and Marvel universes starting out. He needs cash in the bank -- maybe he's lucky enough to have a 90-day credit line -- but he'll have a whack load of titles to order, and he'll have to order not knowing which titles will be successful, more so at this time than before, so he'll probably over-order, just in case.

Which leaves just how much cash for Book of Death? What is VEI thinking? Not only do they launch their event at a time when everyone's attention is and will be on "New DC" and "New Marvel", but they make part of their event a "limited" incentive title. Good thinking. Will anyone be interested in paying big bucks for "Legends" when there'll undoubtedly be countless variant covers of Spider-Gwen and Batgirl and so many others to chase after? Pity the retailer. But more than that, pity us.

Gimmicks and retailer incentives do not create brand loyalty and genuine sales. Retailers cannot afford to be loyal, and artificially inflating sales by using incentives will not help VEI grow. So I hope this "Legends" incentive will become a 1:1 offer, kinda like the old free Unity #0 way back when -- which was when the old Valiant Universe really took off.

[jaden_sai]

Which leaves just how much cash for Book of Death? What is VEI thinking? Not only do they launch their event at a time when everyone's attention is and will be on "New DC" and "New Marvel", but they make part of their event a "limited" incentive title.

To be fair to Valiant, "New DC" and "New Marvel" launches seem to be everyday now

[nycjadie]

I love the gimmicks and the variant covers. Sure, I can't have all of them. I'm OK with that. I don't care that I'll have to wait until it's available in TPB or electronic form to read this story. I think it's cool that Valiant is catering to uber fans with this, which is the only type of fan who will be interested in this. Sure, maybe a few stores will order more so they can get a set to sell on eBay or to provide to one of their loyal fans. Only hardcore fans are going to be upset by this. Personally, I love it. I think it's really great to create things for us uber fans. If you have bucks, Ed I'm sure will provide an opportunity. If you don't have a lot of bucks, and we've all been there, it will be available in some format for us, possibly even for free or at little cost. Just wait.

[BugsySig]

I'm not a collector and I read all my monthlies digitally. I don't like it because I may not be able to read it right away. I love reading VALIANT comics. I love reading FVL's work. I hate that I might not be able to read this right away.

I hated when Shadowman 13x came out and I couldn't read it right away. It took another month or more to be available digitally.

I hate the Plus Editions because they're not available digitally. Most of the content has been leaked out here and there, but I hate I'm not getting the same experience as those who could get them.

I'm sure I'll get it eventually, just like the collectors who want it will likely get it eventually, but it still *SQUEE* me off. I read every book the day it comes out (if I am able) because I love the stories. I don't see why I should miss out on the story just because I buy the books digitally (and pay the same price as the hard copies, I might add).

[mero19]

I don't think this is a good idea at all. For me, I have a hard time getting books at my LCS as it is. They got behind some books like Unity and Bloodshot Reborn. Yet didn't even have shelf copies for Ivar and 2 shelf copies for Ninjak . Or the 3d Unity cover for 350$....Elveen says Valiant need's a hot book people can get behind ( How many artificial 'Hot Books' stay hot?) . Explain to me how that happens when they are literally going to be putting fans that want the book at a disadvantage of getting it , and putting stores at a disadvantage by over-ordering Books of Death. As others I've been a story completest ,get at least 1 of each issue and have gotten multiple covers that strike my fancy. But also have bought titles like Q and W just to support the line even though I may not enjoy it as much.

At least back in VE1 days, if you were a fan and bought all the issues as they came out, the coupon meant you could get a 'rare' book by being a fan and supporting the company. My LCS wouldn't even order the Brian Level cover for Faith 0 , even when I said I would pay more then there normal 25$ for 1/20 issue and buy 6 regular covers(Actually they said they would , changed there mind when they ordered , and told me the day Faith 0 came out ...).


Maybe we are all blowing this out of proportion, as we all don't know exactly how this is gonna work out. FVL's stories have been my favorites of the relaunch, knowing a series of his coming out that , in all likelyhood as it sits now, most likely will be impossible to get at my LCS ... sucks

[Dr. Solar]

Ehhhhhh. I get some of the upset posts but when has valiant done anything other than be 100% fan oriented.

This seems to be the first time.

[Dr. Solar]

I can understand all of the comments in this thread.
Honestly I can.

But.....
One thing VEI has not had is heat on a back issue. Not a hard to find variant, there are a few of those ( but you can get the inside story easy, just not he specific cover).

But they do not have any heat, nor have they had any on any back issue they have released.
THEY NEED it! Maybe this is the way they can get it.
I'm not saying that keeping a story from your readers is a good idea, but maybe, at this time it might be? I'm not sure.

But VEI needs heat on a non-variant book.
For the record I'm not saying I think it is good to keep a story from you readers. Just offering a perspective.

And maybe this book becomes easy to get, so it's a moot point?

The fallacy in your argument, my friend, is that this is not a back issue. They are making a difficult-to-get new issue.

Also, this IS an incentive variant. The variant is in story, not cover.

This is completely different than an issue heating up on the back issue market.

It's even different than a Darth Vader 3, or TNMT fourty-whatever-fake-death-of-donatello issue, in which people didn't know an issue was going to be desirable until it was on stands.

This is an issue that diligent fans, who KNOW they want it WELL in advance, won't be able to get.

How upset would you have been if Valiant made Armor Hunters Epilogue only available at Midtown Comics? That's the equivalent to what they are doing with this distribution.

[nycjadie]

How upset would you have been if Valiant made Armor Hunters Epilogue only available at Midtown Comics? That's the equivalent to what they are doing with this distribution.

I'd actually be OK with that, as I would just order it from Midtown. Marvel and DC had these promotional comics throughout the decades. Wizard 1/2 books were the same. I never did both to get X-O 1/2 when it came out. It's not a key book, and it's probably a one-off thing, for this storyline. It's not like they are doing this all the time. The fact that it's causing so much debate and concern shows that it's innovative. I think it's a great idea. I'm not concerned in the slightest, but I can understand how some people might be annoyed. It definitely puts a barrier on reading the content right away, or in a way that people want. That being said, I do think it will be coveted, and we all like coveted items. Magnus 0. Harbinger Pink. Kotaki Error (I so want one!). I think it will be really fun, and some people will get to read it early, and others will have to wait, just like Harbinger Pink/Blue.

Honestly, either way, I'll read it late. I just finally read Armor Hunters last month. I'm always late to the game. It does let me read them all in one afternoon

[kjjohanson]

The fact that it's causing so much debate and concern shows that it's innovative a bad idea.

Fixed that for you.

[Dr. Solar]

The fact that it's causing so much debate and concern shows that it's innovative a bad idea.

Fixed that for you.

It's both.

[bygranddesign]

When I was a kid ... I used to have to walk 10 miles in a blistering cold snow storm ... barefooted ... to get to my local comic book store so I could get my funny books. And when I got there 9 times out of 10 they were out of Archie and I had to settle with Rocky and Bullwinkle! And I was grateful! Gawdnabit!!!

You kids today ...



Seriously folks ...

This is not exclusive to one retailer

This is most likely an easily attainable incentive

And the market place will be flooded with them

You may not be able to get them from your LCS

But I think Paradise ... Plus every big comic retailer ... will have tons of them

My guess is it won't be that expensive to get online ... and you'll have it in 3-4 days

And you won't even have to endure the misery of walking 10 miles in a snowstorm and getting frost bite

[greg]

Fred Pierce mentioned Harbinger #0. So, how much worse would it be if we had to mutilate 6 comics, like Harbinger #0 required?

This is no big deal. If it's like Harbinger #0, then it will be included with a future trade paperback.

How many Valiant 1991 and 1992 issues did I have to wait YEARS to read? Lots of them.

The trades didn't come out the next month after the arc. It was years.

Stop whining and think back.

We're not cutting up our comics.
We're not waiting years.
We don't even know that the book will be expensive.

Perspective.

[lorddunlow]

So, straight from the man himself the #1 will be a 1:25 for Book of Death #1 orders and the others will be 1:10 for the subsequent Book of Death issues.

http://twitter.com/dinesh_s/status/590325578886029313" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

At best we're looking at $55 for 4 issues. That's $13.75 an issue.

Ugh.

[betterthanezra]

Not collected in a trade means nothing can't be collected in a HC

-Brian

[Joshua]

By the way, I'd love to have a LCS that I cared enough about to support. There is a shop 15 minutes away from me, but everytime I go in there I feel out of place and if I ask a question they are almost always clueless. There is a LCS about 50 minutes from me that I like, but can't justify that long of a trip to buy my comics (not to my wife at least ).

What shop is clueless? I gotta know! I dislike half the places here.

[jmatt]

I'm guessing it will be like the Unity 3D cover. Everyone thought they'd be super rare and then there were tons available on Ebay. I'm not worried.

But it sounds like a cool idea for a book, very excited for it.

[BugsySig]

Fred Pierce mentioned Harbinger #0. So, how much worse would it be if we had to mutilate 6 comics, like Harbinger #0 required?

This is no big deal. If it's like Harbinger #0, then it will be included with a future trade paperback.

How many Valiant 1991 and 1992 issues did I have to wait YEARS to read? Lots of them.

The trades didn't come out the next month after the arc. It was years.

Stop whining and think back.

We're not cutting up our comics.
We're not waiting years.
We don't even know that the book will be expensive.

Perspective.

Like all things, perspective changes with time. I am now accustomed, thanks to technology, to reading my comics on my iPad on the day they are published. That is what I have come to expect, because that is what has been made available to me by the comic book industry. So why now should that be taken away?

Harbinger #0 was 25 years ago. It was commonplace then to mail in coupons and recieve books months later. It was commonplace to search for months, or years, for a book because the internet didn't exist. Now it does.

Sorry, this isn't innovative, it's annoying. Call me a spoiled brat, but I'm only that way because it's what VEI has made me

[bygranddesign]

Fred Pierce mentioned Harbinger #0. So, how much worse would it be if we had to mutilate 6 comics, like Harbinger #0 required?

This is no big deal. If it's like Harbinger #0, then it will be included with a future trade paperback.

How many Valiant 1991 and 1992 issues did I have to wait YEARS to read? Lots of them.

The trades didn't come out the next month after the arc. It was years.

Stop whining and think back.

We're not cutting up our comics.
We're not waiting years.
We don't even know that the book will be expensive.

Perspective.

In the words of Stephan Jenkins .. "I wish you would step back from that ledge my friiiend.."