Rai reread

[jmatt]

Okay, well to clear up my understanding of the story, I am rereading all eight issues; read 1-4 tonight. Things read so much better as a trade. I know I said I don't over-examine things, but I do want to understand this story in full, and I don't actually feel that I do.

I'll start at the end and work backward a little, because it's still the crux of the matter. The last line of issue four is Rai saying "We're going to kill Father. We're going to free Japan."

So, let's examine why Father should die and whether Japan needs to be freed. What has Father done:

1) Well, the most egregious crime is actually seen for the first time in issue #4, when Father orders the release of extra energy Earthward, and specifically targets a small human settlement. In my first read, it was not apparent to me that this was intentional, I saw it as callous disregard that just happened to kill humans; Silk even said he just "carelessly" disposes of it.

But it is apparent that Father is willfully keeping Earth's population reeling.

The problem is that Rai has no knowledge of this, therefore it can't be a reason for him to want to kill Father. Moreover, it seems more like Earth should be freed from Father's cruelty than Japan needing to be freed.

2) Father may have tortured Rai's mother, although we are never told why. Father, however, says that she was a volunteer, and Silk states that he and the Raddies were trying to save her life when she died.

So if it's true that Father, for whatever reason, tortured Rai's mother, I can see why he would want revenge. But it doesn't really support a cry for 'freeing' Japan. With the exception of the Raddies, the people there seem pretty content.

3) Father wants Rai to kill the Raddies. The Raddies are trying to free the PTs; although how and why they need to be freed has not really been explained yet. In the first issue, Lula's father states that the Raddies are having a tough time of it because the PTs don't want to be freed.

We have seen no repression of PTs, they simply exist to keep the population in check. In fact, if it wasn't for Father, they wouldn't exist at all. One can understand why Father doesn't want the Raddies upsetting that dynamic.

What to make of this? I have seen no repression of Japan's general populace. There is no hue and cry from the PTs for freedom. But the citizens of Earth certainly have cause to have a beef with him.

So, I can understand why Rai wants revenge for his mother's torture (if it even happened), but I'm not getting the 'Free Japan' thing.

[hunter_peterson]

Yep. Fairly valid points. In the next four there's some more stuff, but I've not gotten much of a sense of public discontent. It kind of raises the question of whether or not Rai and his friends are equally wrong in their actions. Father hardly seems worse than a human ruler of a comparable city might be.

[Savant]

A noble venture, jmatt. I plan to do the same with Rai, as well as Imperium & Ivar, as I haven't enjoyed Valiant this much since the line first came back with the early arcs of X-O, Archer & Armstrong, Bloodshot, and Harbinger (also Harbinger Wars and a select few issues of Shadowman).

I'm definitely going to eventually get the deluxe hardcover of Rai, also Imperium & Ivar if they remain consistent in quality/appeal.

In regard to your re-read of Rai, do you have the Plus editions of issues 1 & 5, or the regular versions? As someone mentioned in the other thread, the Plus editions expand upon the oppressive aspects of Father's regime.

[jmatt]

In regard to your re-read of Rai, do you have the Plus editions of issues 1 & 5, or the regular versions? As someone mentioned in the other thread, the Plus editions expand upon the oppressive aspects of Father's regime.

Of course, I have both versions. But I didn't read the extra material (this time) because I want to experience the story as would a typical reader with a regular issue.

[jmatt]

It kind of raises the question of whether or not Rai and his friends are equally wrong in their actions. Father hardly seems worse than a human ruler of a comparable city might be.

I didn't mention it in my OP, but there's one thing I noticed but didn't mention. Wanna know who seems to be killing a lot of people (Raddies)? Rai.

Also, this doesn't quite jibe: We are told in issue #1 that we're witnessing the first murder in Japan in a thousand years. Then we are told that when the Rais learn that their mothers are killed, they go on a kill-crazy rampage, one NOT sanctioned by Father.

Of course I know more transpires in the next arc (and I have just reread 3 and 4 again) but I still can't find my way to Rai deciding that Japan needs to be freed and Father needs to die.

To get there, Kindt really should have emphasized the desire of PTs for freewill, the Raddies as their human champions, and Rai as the government sanctioned persecutor who finally realizes he's on the wrong side of the issue. But we are nowhere near that by the end of issue #4.

[bygranddesign]

This is a cool thread - thanks for starting it

I don't have the books in front of me - but the Plus editions definitely go into the Propaganda aspects of Father's rule.

Father definitely feels like the end result of what Harada ultimately wants to achieve - A Utopian Dictatorship.

It would be an interesting narrative to show a ground swell of normal people who want more freedom and choice - and Father desperately wants to keep them IGNORANT for what he believes is their own good.

I think that is an interesting story to tell.

I think Kindt tries to show this at times ... but for the most part the majority of people in Japan are blissfully ignorant.

The fact that this revolution was being hatched by anarchist (Raddies), Positrons and Rai - How is them destroying Father and basically dictating the future of Japan ... any better than Father's rule?

They are making a decision that IMPACTS EVERYONE - and the people have no VOTE on this decision

I think the things that should be done in tryng to create a revolution
1) Counter Father's propaganda with your own Propaganda - do people in this world even know and understand the concept of Fascism? and Democracy? Provide them some truth and knowledge that Father is keeping from them ... Tell the world the dark side of Father. (there are many murders in Japan over the thousand years for example .. Father just covers them up)
2) Once you start getting people on your side - try to convince Father to change for the interest of the people
3) When the people realize that Father is oppressive ...and has no interest in giving people choice and basic freedoms ... they will rise up even more.
4) provide a CLEAR alternative

#4 - is probably the thing that mystifies me the most right now.

What was Rai going to do when he confronted Father?

How do you overthrow/defeat the life blood - the living force - that controls Japan?

What would have been interesting is if Rai had some alternative force/programming/virus - that could be uploaded to the mainframe of Japan that would have been a viable replacement. Mother? Or ... Grandmother?

But if you "kill" Father without a replacement .. How will Japan even function?

[drmirage]

Cool Thread Indeed

[BugsySig]

I don't think anything in this series has been very clear. If the Raddies are the champions of the PTs, then why are they about to have a huge battle in issue 7-8? And even rereading them, I see no reason for the Rai's to lose their minds when they find out where they come from. We also have no idea of the motivations for Spylocke and Silk. I mentioned early on that Kindt was introducing a lot of threads, and worried he couldn't tie them all together. Nothing I've read his far has eased those worries.

[jmatt]

Okay, I've just finished rereading 5-8. Let me just get this out of the way because while it's not the point of this thread, it needs to be said: The art is *SQUEE* amazing from start to finish. I will leave it at that.

Then, this: The story is *SQUEE* amazing. But the narrative needed the following changes:

1) It was a complete mistake for there to be any talk in 1 through 4 of the Raddies wanting to free the PTs. By issue 5, that is nowhere to be found, and it is plain that the Raddies want to kill the PTs (they are chopping off heads in mass executions, for Pete's sake).

2) This is the key change: 60% of issue 6 should have been issue 2 or maybe 3. That's where Momo talks about PTs having freewill but not being able to express it due to the programming imbued by Father. She even says that some had achieved it but were waiting for a leader, afraid to get out of line. Now we have repression of freewill, and a reason for Rai to rebel.

3) The 'extra content' Raddie Manifesto in 5 should have been included in the regular content somewhere in the first four issues. It describes how Father keeps the populace brainwashed and docile with technology, not truly feeling human or experiencing the human need for struggle. Think of The Matrix, when Agent Smith is telling Morpheus that early versions of the matrix were a failure because their world was too perfect.

With those changes, the last line of issue 4 makes sense. "We're going to kill Father. We're going to free Japan".

It is unfortunate that the story did not unfold in this fashion, because I always had the feeling that I didn't quite understand everyone's motivations.

Do yourself a favor and reread the entire thing. You will absolutely understand everything better, and I'm willing to bet you'll agree with the suggestions I make above.

[agent_graves]

Okay, I've just finished rereading 5-8. Let me just get this out of the way because while it's not the point of this thread, it needs to be said: The art is *SQUEE* amazing from start to finish. I will leave it at that.

Then, this: The story is *SQUEE* amazing. But the narrative needed the following changes:

1) It was a complete mistake for there to be any talk in 1 through 4 of the Raddies wanting to free the PTs. By issue 5, that is nowhere to be found, and it is plain that the Raddies want to kill the PTs (they are chopping off heads in mass executions, for Pete's sake).

2) This is the key change: 60% of issue 6 should have been issue 2 or maybe 3. That's where Momo talks about PTs having freewill but not being able to express it due to the programming imbued by Father. She even says that some had achieved it but were waiting for a leader, afraid to get out of line. Now we have repression of freewill, and a reason for Rai to rebel.

3) The 'extra content' Raddie Manifesto in 5 should have been included in the regular content somewhere in the first four issues. It describes how Father keeps the populace brainwashed and docile with technology, not truly feeling human or experiencing the human need for struggle. Think of The Matrix, when Agent Smith is telling Morpheus that early versions of the matrix were a failure because their world was too perfect.

With those changes, the last line of issue 4 makes sense. "We're going to kill Father. We're going to free Japan".

It is unfortunate that the story did not unfold in this fashion, because I always had the feeling that I didn't quite understand everyone's motivations.

Do yourself a favor and reread the entire thing. You will absolutely understand everything better, and I'm willing to bet you'll agree with the suggestions I make above.

Duly noted. I've only read the first four, and I don't remember much, (hey, I read a lot of books) so it only makes sense for me to read all eight, (plus editions of #1 & #5) in one sitting at this point. Great thread Jmatt, your assessment gives readers a new set of eyes going into the re-read, which should enhance readers enjoyment of the story.

[QUARTZ]

I feel like there has been a lot in this series with aspects that are unclear or only hinted at. We can only have faith that they will answer these questions down the line or expound on a few key items, but right now I do not totally understand the motivations either.

[jmatt]

I feel like there has been a lot in this series with aspects that are unclear or only hinted at. We can only have faith that they will answer these questions down the line or expound on a few key items, but right now I do not totally understand the motivations either.

It's all there, just not delineated in the narrative in such a fashion as to make it plain. If you read it in two sittings and keep in mind my above suggestions, it all makes sense.

[QUARTZ]

I feel like there has been a lot in this series with aspects that are unclear or only hinted at. We can only have faith that they will answer these questions down the line or expound on a few key items, but right now I do not totally understand the motivations either.

It's all there, just not delineated in the narrative in such a fashion as to make it plain. If you read it in two sittings and keep in mind my above suggestions, it all makes sense.

I'm going to have to sit down and re-read like you said, take notes so to speak. I think maybe the breaks between comics is throwing me off a little. It's just tough revisiting stuff when you have a pile of comics you still need to read for the first time haha.

[ShadowTuga]

Great thread!
A Rai reread is on the way for me. Reading some of these posts make me think that while I am understanding the Big story going on, there's subtle nuances here and there of other stuff that might pop up later and since 4001 AD is coming, the timing is the best. I was going to give a full VEI reread starting with X-O, but now I want to reread Rai first.

[jmatt]

That's a pretty good idea, a reread before 4001 kicks off...

[Keith]

That's a pretty good idea, a reread before 4001 kicks off...

I like it. 12 days prior, read one issue a day.

[agent_graves]

That's a pretty good idea, a reread before 4001 kicks off...

I just did this last week, imo, having the plus editions, adds more depth, to the overall narrative. I still think the ending leading into the big event was anticlimactic, but overall, Rai is still one of Valiants best titles....

[IMJ]

Has this title been cancelled with issue 12? It's a gorgeous book to look at, but I'm about 6 issues behind in reading it. If it's going to be renumbered, it's another title I'm dropping, which sucks because I've liked it enough that I've put a full Variant set together too...

[JCP]

That's a pretty good idea, a reread before 4001 kicks off...

Agreed. I picked up the four TPB's and look forward to getting ready for 4001 AD and the Phoenix ComiCon discussion panel.

[Keith]

Has this title been cancelled with issue 12? It's a gorgeous book to look at, but I'm about 6 issues behind in reading it. If it's going to be renumbered, it's another title I'm dropping, which sucks because I've liked it enough that I've put a full Variant set together too...

Nope, not cancelled. Issue #13 will be out in May as part of 4001 AD. While Rai's story picks up where it left off in the 4001 AD miniseries, the Rai series will explore the origins of New Japan and the Rai lineage further.

[IMJ]

Has this title been cancelled with issue 12? It's a gorgeous book to look at, but I'm about 6 issues behind in reading it. If it's going to be renumbered, it's another title I'm dropping, which sucks because I've liked it enough that I've put a full Variant set together too...

Nope, not cancelled. Issue #13 will be out in May as part of 4001 AD. While Rai's story picks up where it left off in the 4001 AD miniseries, the Rai series will explore the origins of New Japan and the Rai lineage further.

Awesome, thanks for filling me in.....
Valiant doesn't have Magnus, but maybe they should fill in the future with another title of some kind too? I'm actually feeling like Divinity would be great getting himself into the future universe with Rai.....

[Keith]

Starting my re-read of Rai today (4/22/16). If I counted right, I can read one issue a day and that will take me right up to 4001 ADs start on 5/4.

[mkb28]

Starting my re-read of Rai today (4/22/16). If I counted right, I can read one issue a day and that will take me right up to 4001 ADs start on 5/4.

I am holding out to read my Rai Volume 1 Deluxe HC when it comes out. I have only read the first 9 issues and I am totally lost.

Mkb28

[Psiot X]

Issue 1:

When you are reading a comic book, do you ever find yourself giving the characters different voices in your head while reading the dialogue? The Raddies quickly became British accented… So did Spylocke even though I know this is about Japan.

I was fascinated by the color palette in use. There were so many washed shades of purple and to a lesser degree blue in use. It took me a moment to notice it as they are by no means the only colors just prominent. The art portrays a techno cyberpunk dysotopia vision of future japan.

Was it weird that I thought RAI needed boots? Barefoot and bloody give me bad vibes.

Positrons. The old Positronic Man story. After listening to TED talk discussion into the nature of free will and sentience I have to lean toward any thinking, feeling, construct as a form of life and the more human like the more worthy of all rights entailed. It's slavery…

Lula was a cute vehicle to add a sense of wonder to the story. Her hair threw me for a loop of cool for some reason.

I liked the portrayal of Father as a big cherry blossom tree in a garden space. You know, considering the human condition rule by an AI might be our salvation. It could be our doom too.

Techno-Hulk came as a surprise. I didn't expect to see RAI knocked through several floors and out of the space station environment.

The first issues set the scene pretty well to hook me into reading more. It's a mystery and I wanted to learn more. So in that sense it did really well.

Issue 2:

Nope. I didn't expect Techno-Hulk to devolve into a writhing mass of tentacles and a boom head. H3H. H3H. H3H.

WTF!? RAI described the Library of Congress as a mythical catalog of pornography materiel…

LMAO.

More as I read more and others get into things.

[NapoleonBlownapart]

Issue 1:

When you are reading a comic book, do you ever find yourself giving the characters different voices in your head while reading the dialogue? The Raddies quickly became British accented… So did Spylocke even though I know this is about Japan.

I tried imagining them all with Japanese accents, but it got really difficult because I don't know that many Japanese accents. New Japan doesn't seem to be culturally homogenous, so I guess they could have any accent.

Spylocke having a British accent makes sense because he's Ninjak's successor.