'The Valiant' Opinion Poll

[Keith]

Given the numerous debates going on in the Published Issue area, I was curious to see how The Valiant fares in a good ol' fashioned poll. You get one vote.

[TheFerg714]

Given the numerous debates going on in the Published Issue area, I was curious to see how The Valiant fares in a good ol' fashioned poll. You get one vote.

Good idea! I loved it.

[blujay]

I've come to terms with Kay dying, but I was a little confused by certain things in it, so for right now I'm in the like it category. That may change once I decide to reread it all in one sitting, cause this series was pretty clearly "written for the trade"

[TheFerg714]

I can understand disliking it, but not hating it. I wish someone who voted for that would post their thoughts.

[erwinrafael]

I do not need to post my thoughts. It's all over the Published Issue board.

[depluto]

I liked it as a story, but a couple of things were hard to figure. That giant battle for one ... what the hell was that about? And I don't think the story was good enough to justify 86-ing Kay. Hopefully they still have some kind of plan for her.

[bygranddesign]

I liked it as a story, but a couple of things were hard to figure. That giant battle for one ... what the hell was that about?

Such a yadayada moment

Obviously, Neville put the V symbol in the sky and within moments a whole slew of Valiant's biggest Superheroes(and look punk mambo made the list because why not?) from all over the world came running/flying to the scene ..in route they had a virtual conference call where they got debriefed on the situation and strategized and all became super cool friends.

After the mission was over - all those not part of Unity got their memories wiped like in Men In Black - in order to have more genuine 1st time meetings in the future.

It's so obvi

[String]

I liked it as well BUT....

The relationship between Kay and Bloodshot was the best aspect of the book for me.

The incompetence and uselessness of Gilad along with the murky motivations against certain Geomancers by IE were the worst aspects for me.

[Dallow Spicer1]

Overall I liked it but issue #3 contained the single biggest mis-step since the launch of VEI .....(nearly) all of the VEI characters meet for a pointless battle which robs us of many future 'first meetings' storylines! Can anyone name a single bigger mis-step?

[blujay]

I liked it as a story, but a couple of things were hard to figure. That giant battle for one ... what the hell was that about?

Such a yadayada moment

Obviously, Neville put the V symbol in the sky and within moments a whole slew of Valiant's biggest Superheroes(and look punk mambo made the list because why not?) from all over the world came running/flying to the scene ..in route they had a virtual conference call where they got debriefed on the situation and strategized and all became super cool friends.

After the mission was over - all those not part of Unity got their memories wiped like in Men In Black - in order to have more genuine 1st time meetings in the future.

It's so obvi

I'm sure Neville was a little disappointed when he heard Shadowman couldn't make the fight.

Mambo: "Yeah, Jack's a little tied up atm, but I'll take his place."
Neville: "Alright, how can you help us fight against the Earth's ultimate force of darkness and chaos?"
Mambo: "Well...I got some gin, and a few rags...anyone got a light?"
Woody: "Right here "

[Dallow Spicer1]

I liked it as a story, but a couple of things were hard to figure. That giant battle for one ... what the hell was that about?

Such a yadayada moment

Obviously, Neville put the V symbol in the sky and within moments a whole slew of Valiant's biggest Superheroes(and look punk mambo made the list because why not?) from all over the world came running/flying to the scene ..in route they had a virtual conference call where they got debriefed on the situation and strategized and all became super cool friends.

After the mission was over - all those not part of Unity got their memories wiped like in Men In Black - in order to have more genuine 1st time meetings in the future.

It's so obvi

I'm sure Neville was a little disappointed when he heard Shadowman couldn't make the fight.

Mambo: "Yeah, Jack's a little tied up atm, but I'll take his place."
Neville: "Alright, how can you help us fight against the Earth's ultimate force of darkness and chaos?"
Mambo: "Well...I got some gin, and a few rags...anyone got a light?"
Woody: "Right here "

[grendeljd]

I actually loved it overall, but I also disliked a few aspects toward the end of it. Not nearly as many things bothered me as most others are mentioning.

*potential spoilers below*



The big battle in #3 was not given enough room to breathe visually, but the written components describing how it came together made sense for me. A tiny bit ham-fisted, but it made sense to bring as many known super powered individuals together as quickly as possible. Neville did mention spending a ton of money to pull that off.

The idea that the Immortal Enemy was not clearly explained enough didn't entirely bother me - I just see it as a force of nature & an avatar of chaos. A rotting Yin to the Yang of Nature's growth. Maybe that comes across as a bit too one-dimensional, but sometimes leaving things unexplained is okay - especially if it leaves you wanting to read more about a character (which I do, I'm hoping that thing will return again). It only surfaces once in every so many centuries though, as per this establishing story.

Kay's death was tragic in that her life was cut short before realizing the major potential she had as a really great new Valiant character... I'm still on the fence a little over this choice. It certainly must drive the next arc of Bloodshot, but this *is* the second time a great female character has died as a plot device for Bloodshot... It better count for something good.

[jmatt]

That giant battle for one ... what the hell was that about?

Yeah, that was just indulgent.

But on the bright side, the dialogue between Bloodshot and Kay was terrific.

[TheFerg714]

Maybe I just watch/read too much Walking Dead, but I will never understand how people can get so hung up on a character dying, especially a minor character like Kay. I mean, yea, it sucks, and I was pretty sad, but guess what? In huge, larger than life, battles like this (and every other superpowered-confrontation in a superhero universe) there is a large possibility of someone dying. The goal is to make said character death surprising and important to the continuing story. The thing is.. Valiant is trying to change things. They don't want to be the publisher that brings people back to life, just because fans want more stories about him/her. Sometimes people die. Well.. not sometimes.. literally every day. It would be hypocritical to Valiant's own mantra to have everyone survive every battle just for the sake of not making fans upset.

Actually, I think the fact that a big chunk of readers are upset about Kay dying is just proof that Valiant is doing something right.

The idea that the Immortal Enemy was not clearly explained enough didn't entirely bother me - I just see it as a force of nature & an avatar of chaos. A rotting Yin to the Yang of Nature's growth. Maybe that comes across as a bit too one-dimensional, but sometimes leaving things unexplained is okay - especially if it leaves you wanting to read more about a character (which I do, I'm hoping that thing will return again). It only surfaces once in every so many centuries though, as per this establishing story.

Exactly. I really don't understand that argument whatsoever. IE's motivations were pretty clear.. he's the opposite to the Geomancer. He exists only to bring about balance and decay. Actually.. you said it kind of perfectly, so I'll just leave it at that.

[betterthanezra]

Loved it

Period.

-Brian

[Joshua]

I thought the series was great and probably because I wasn't emotionally invested in Kay. I liked her but her death didn't make me burn my back issues. Like others, I thought the 3rd issue team-up was odd, but I think in issue 2, Neville is in front of the screen with all the Valiant heroes so that kinda helps me accept the isssue 3 group.

I thought the series overall had so many great moments. And Paolo's art was on another level. He needs more Valiant work.

[lorddunlow]

Short response here; I'll further my points in jmatt's whining thread

I loved 90% of this miniseries. The bad part is I hated the last 7% of the series (the ending). The battle was the other 3%.

I'll start with the battle: The "everyone in the universe comes together" was not what annoyed me. I actually liked that. What I hated was that battle and gathering of superpowers should have been a book unto itself. I complain all the time about decompression, but this was ultracompression that actually took away from my enjoyment. I wanted to see why everyone got in on the action (like Punk Mambo - really, what the hell motivation does she have? how did anyone even know about her?) and then see some character moments there - more of what nightmares the characters had.


Most annoying thing for me of the entire mini? Livewire. Who the hell thought that was a good idea (both writing and in-universe)? "Hey, we have this super nasty force that scares the hell out of Gilad and it feeds off of nature. We're battling it in an open field with no artificial structures around or machines of any kind. Livewire would definitely have the upper hand on this guy!" What was she even doing? Throwing rocks at it? Tactically speaking, she could ONLY be a liability (turned against Aric by the Immortal Enemy or similar). She should have been nowhere near that guy. Maybe send her with Bloodshot to the Mall with all the artificial stuff?



But the thig that ruined the 90% great series was the ending. Not the death of Kay (although I also thought it was too early for her demise, but I don't think VEI had a misstep with killing her), but the way it happened and the quickness of the entire ending. I think they solicited the mini as a 4-parter and the story they told didn't fit that length. But instead of adding more issues to flesh it all out, they rushed the ending. I'm seeing this as a pattern with VEI. We've beaten the Shadowman angle to death, but I think it bears mentioning again, that Milligan's run when he first came on was very promising (I loved the end run of Shadowan proper), but once End Times kicked in with a issue/time limit ticking, the story suffered in order to wrap it up in 3 issues. Same thing with Days of Steel - really enjoyed the series, but they didn't stick the landing; the ending made the whole mini leave a bad taste in my mouth.

In short, I hope VEI gets away from minis that they feel need an end point. The writers we have are great at telling a story, but when forced to wrap things up neatly, they blow it.

I really really enjoyed The Valiant, but the rushed ending really ruined the whole thing for me. I wanted to see more of Bloodshot and Kay interacting. I wanted to see more Mr. Flay/Kay and Mr. Flay/Bloodshot interactions. I feel I was robbed of good story to keep to the artificially assigned 4-issue limit. I know they want to line stories up with new releases and this was a launching pad for Bloodshot Reborn, but honestly, this mini made me less excited for new Bloodshot (and Bloodshot has been my favorite VEI character!!!)

(Dino, if you're reading this - or any of the involved creators, actually - don't take this as me hating on the company. This is just my personal opinion. I think the strength of an ongoing is no need for an ending. It's hard to pull off a great ending. It's very difficult to tell a complete story in this age of decompression in 3-4 issues.)

Well, I guess that was short...

[blujay]

Not the death of Kay (although I also thought it was too early for her demise, but I don't think VEI had a misstep with killing her), but the way it happened and the quickness of the entire ending. I think they solicited the mini as a 4-parter and the story they told didn't fit that length. But instead of adding more issues to flesh it all out, they rushed the ending. I'm seeing this as a pattern with VEI. We've beaten the Shadowman angle to death, but I think it bears mentioning again, that Milligan's run when he first came on was very promising (I loved the end run of Shadowan proper), but once End Times kicked in with a issue/time limit ticking, the story suffered in order to wrap it up in 3 issues. Same thing with Days of Steel - really enjoyed the series, but they didn't stick the landing; the ending made the whole mini leave a bad taste in my mouth.

In short, I hope VEI gets away from minis that they feel need an end point. The writers we have are great at telling a story, but when forced to wrap things up neatly, they blow it.

I really really enjoyed The Valiant, but the rushed ending really ruined the whole thing for me. I wanted to see more of Bloodshot and Kay interacting. I wanted to see more Mr. Flay/Kay and Mr. Flay/Bloodshot interactions. I feel I was robbed of good story to keep to the artificially assigned 4-issue limit. I know they want to line stories up with new releases and this was a launching pad for Bloodshot Reborn, but honestly, this mini made me less excited for new Bloodshot (and Bloodshot has been my favorite VEI character!!!)

You raise some good points (specifically about length and pacing in relation to the idea that mini-series' are supposed to be a complete story) although I can't say I agree with them all because I've really enjoyed the mini's they've done

But to respond to your "stick the landing" argument, I think that's kind of been the point. With the exception of Days of Steel and Delinquents, these mini's seem to be a way to shake things up and establish new status quos for any given character. The Valiant displaces Gilad and Bloodshot, Quantum and Woody Must Die seems to be shifting their story arc, while End Times (literally) displaces Shadowman (seriously where the hell has he been?). I think the idea here is that VEI wants you to come back for more and be lead directly into the next series (ala Bloodshot Reborn/Bloodshot & HARDCorps/Second Lives), whether it's been successful or not is a discussion worth having and the main point I think you're getting at. For me, it has, I'm super excited for the next year of Valiant (specifically Bloodshot & Shadowman). For others, it hasn't. Understandable, but I think we should wait to see how all of these threads tie up and then re-evaluate The Valiant and the direction of the company.

As for fitting more character into a book instead of a big "rushed" fight scene (that, admittedly, I thought was pretty cool), you'll get no argument from me either. I think that's just the nature of these kinds of crossovers though, comic companies want to capture the feeling of "grandeur" to make their events seem more important. Whether it worked or not, again, is debatable. I'd agree that it fell flat when compared to the actual massive events ala Harby Wars and Armor Hunters, but giving me the chance to see the Goat mix it up alongside X-O Manowar and Gunslinger gets you a pass

[Dallow Spicer1]

But to respond to your "stick the , but giving me the chance to see the Goat mix it up alongside X-O Manowar and Gunslinger gets you a pass

No disrespect but I couldn't disagree more about the goat!! Having that in anything other than Q&W is huge mistake! That joke got old fast and apart from some Acclaim nostalgia is a waste of time and undermines the more 'serious' titles.

Tragically the goat is on the cover (!) of the 'Death' summer crossover!!

[first_citizenx]

At least Shadowman wasn't at the big battle in issue 3, so he's still the "loner". I mean, outside of Dr. Mirage, no one has met him, right? Something tells me there's a big return for him coming our way.

[jmatt]

Short response here; I'll further my points in jmatt's whining thread

Shall I hold my breath?

And it's not a whine, it's constructive criticism! I liked The Valiant and said so.

[lorddunlow]

Short response here; I'll further my points in jmatt's whining thread

Shall I hold my breath?

And it's not a whine, it's constructive criticism! I liked The Valiant and said so.

I'm just messing with you, man. We all know I'm the biggest whiner on the boards.

I see your post as constructive criticism and hope VEI sees it as such.

[Magnus9178]

The best thing about this series was finding a lot of people who don't read Valiant reading this book. The creative team was a huge draw for people who typically stick to the big 3.

[BugsySig]

The best thing about this series was finding a lot of people who don't read Valiant reading this book. The creative team was a huge draw for people who typically stick to the big 3.

+1

A lot of posts on the CBR message boards are from new readers or those who read minimal VALIANT and have almost nothing but positive comments (other than a disappointment over Kay dying).

[Keith]

Interesting results so far... the overwhelming majority loved/liked The Valiant, with most people Liked It/Had Flaws vote in the lead, and the flat out Loved It in a close second.

The Hated It contingent is a distant third, tied with some controversial Ice Cream, and Not Fans/Good Parts getting a single vote.

I wonder if we've hit capacity or if more will vote?