The Valiant #4 Discussion

Keith · Post by **Keith** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 8:12 am

Ok... read it... but am still processing. I'm not quite sure what to make of it, which I suspect may be the point.

All you other peeps who have read it in advance, get in here! Start spilling your thoughts/opinions/what not. This one needs to be talked out!

Ras the future fan · Post by **Ras the future fan** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 8:25 am

Don't normally read digital, but I couldn't wait till Saturday to read this.
First up Bloodshot, without his powers is he going to be more like the Punisher now, what happened to the nanites are they going to find a new host?
Where are we going to see this new Geomancer next, is she going to show up in unity, probably for the "War Monger" arc.

Keith · Post by **Keith** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 8:56 am

Ras the future fan wrote:First up Bloodshot, without his powers is he going to be more like the Punisher now, what happened to the nanites are they going to find a new host?

I was getting that Punisher-esque vibe, too. But I don't think he is completely done with nanite related matters, though not sure if we'll see an answer to what happened to his nanites.

Where are we going to see this new Geomancer next, is she going to show up in unity, probably for the "War Monger" arc.

Sounds as good a place as any, though I've heard speculation of another Eternal Warrior miniseries, and seem to recall Cary Nord was dropping hints he was working on another.

So did we win or lose? It feels like both to me.

Dr. Solar · Post by **Dr. Solar** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 8:59 am

Nailed it. Unfortunately.

Keith · Post by **Keith** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 9:08 am

Dr. Solar wrote:Nailed it. Unfortunately.

Indeed you did, Doc, though I don't think anyone successfully called the "What's in the box?" question. I, for one, was not expecting that.

Dr. Solar · Post by **Dr. Solar** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:00 am

Keith wrote:Indeed you did, Doc, though I don't think anyone successfully called the "What's in the box?" question. I, for one, was not expecting that.

Yup. That one was a surprise to me. Big time.

Keith · Post by **Keith** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:51 am

Our very own pixierosa submitted a great review over at Valiant Central:

http://valiantcentral.com/review-the-valiant-4/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

BugsySig · Post by **BugsySig** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 11:03 am

So how the Boon played into everything finally made sense. Gilad added life force to the Geomancer of the future in order to keep her alive long enough to be found and released (who's life force he took is another issue all together). It also poses the question of whether or not this new Geomancer is "immortal" a la Aram or at least capable of surviving death a la Aram and Mary Maria.

This went back to some of the questions I was asking in that the IM's sole purpose was to kill the Geomancer. Gilad of the future used that to defeat it in a different way, as Ninjak suggested.

For a second I really thought Kay was going to survive just because she actually fought back, and I'm really disappointed that she was killed. That character was one of my favorites and had hardly been tapped to her full potential yet. Perhaps her appearance in Bloodshot Reborn will be more than a figment of BS's imagination? Maybe her "soul" was actually absorbed by the Nanites?

I'm sure we will find out a lot more next month in Reborn, but somehow I doubt Bloodshot is completely devoid of Nanites now, and we've seen them manifest themselves as hallucinations before.

I'm also desperate for a new EW series now. We need to see how he trains this new Geomancer and where everything goes from here. Also, the Immortal Enemy is still around. How long does it take him to return? He never seemd to come for Buck McHenry. And what is his real purpose?

erwinrafael · Post by **erwinrafael** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 11:52 am

The payoff is so freakingly underwhelming consudering the costs. You killed off a refreshingly new character in Kay McHenry for this? You removed Bloodshot's capabilities for this? You made all VEI characters team up for this? And you made use of the Boon for this?

What a joke. Really, I am sticking to my vow before that I would just stay within the FVL and Dysart corner of VEI. Then I would just pick up the Nord, Perez and Suayan books.

What a disappointment.

blujay · Post by **blujay** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 11:55 am

BugsySig wrote:For a second I really thought Kay was going to survive just because she actually fought back, and I'm really disappointed that she was killed. That character was one of my favorites and had hardly been tapped to her full potential yet. Perhaps her appearance in Bloodshot Reborn will be more than a figment of BS's imagination? Maybe her "soul" was actually absorbed by the Nanites?

Yeah this sums up my feelings on this mini. A good story in it's own right, although the Boon stuff should've been explained better, it confused me (someone who's read almost every VEI issue to date) I could only guess how lost someone reading Valiant for the first time would be.

Still a little disappointing. I didn't want Kay to die, she should have had at least a mini or ongoing before killing her, I feel like we didn't see much of her and now she's dead. Same thing I said about Pulse.

Sir Sandrick · Post by **Sir Sandrick** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:04 pm

Loved the issue so much! The art is just phenomenal and it was paced out beautifully. Bloodshot's eyes glowing on Kay's face was such a cool touch!

I am surprised in the way that it ended. I thought the box was going to contain something that negated the rest of the series so that it was a self contained event, thus not having to explain how they got everyone together to fight it, etc. To have a battle that epic in the ongoing timeline and not have more lead up or explanation to it felt a little weird. also why have a timer on the box after it has been activated? to adjust the inner box to atmospheric conditions?

Terrible typo on bottom of page 11 "Well, well. Aren't you are a resilient little soldier?" Made me reread it and took me out of the nail-biting moment. Oooops! Other than that, just a phenomenal read and great lead in for what is to come.

Since this is a part of the main timeline now, it would be funny to see Q and W and others involved in the big battle getting their paychecks from unity or something. Just to acknowledge that they were there and experienced some messed up stuff.

blujay · Post by **blujay** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:07 pm

Sir Sandrick wrote:Terrible typo on bottom of page 11 "Well, well. Aren't you are a resilient little soldier?" Made me reread it and took me out of the nail-biting moment. Oooops! Other than that, just a phenomenal read and great lead in for what is to come.

Since this is a part of the main timeline now, it would be funny to see Q and W and others involved in the big battle getting their paychecks from MI 6 or something. Just to acknowledge that they were there and experienced some messed up stuff.

To be honest, I didn't notice the extra "are" until you pointed it out

And I agree, I really want to know how they got roped into fighting the Valiant Universe's ultimate force of evil

jeremycoe · Post by **jeremycoe** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:49 pm

I couldn't wait until my DCBS shipment comes next week, so I bought it on Comixology. Not what I expected, but an awesome conclusion. Can't wait for Bloodshot Reborn.

Brapbrap · Post by **Brapbrap** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 1:10 pm

BugsySig wrote:So how the Boon played into everything finally made sense. Gilad added life force to the Geomancer of the future in order to keep her alive long enough to be found and released (who's life force he took is another issue all together). It also poses the question of whether or not this new Geomancer is "immortal" a la Aram or at least capable of surviving death a la Aram and Mary Maria.

This went back to some of the questions I was asking in that the IM's sole purpose was to kill the Geomancer. Gilad of the future used that to defeat it in a different way, as Ninjak suggested.

For a second I really thought Kay was going to survive just because she actually fought back, and I'm really disappointed that she was killed. That character was one of my favorites and had hardly been tapped to her full potential yet. Perhaps her appearance in Bloodshot Reborn will be more than a figment of BS's imagination? Maybe her "soul" was actually absorbed by the Nanites?

I'm sure we will find out a lot more next month in Reborn, but somehow I doubt Bloodshot is completely devoid of Nanites now, and we've seen them manifest themselves as hallucinations before.

I'm also desperate for a new EW series now. We need to see how he trains this new Geomancer and where everything goes from here. Also, the Immortal Enemy is still around. How long does it take him to return? He never seemd to come for Buck McHenry. And what is his real purpose?

I think the boon was being used to send it back in time, not completely sure but it looked like the box was disintegrating in the future scene

I definitely want a new EW ongoing after this, I think the new Geomancer is a great way to give direction to his character as he's honestly been quite *SQUEE* lately

JonesyAZ · Post by **JonesyAZ** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 1:34 pm

The OTV crew discussed this issue for an upcoming Sunday episode; you can hear my thoughts on this and the whole "The Valiant" series when it is released on a few weeks from now (however you CAN listen to the OTV VCR crew discuss this issue at http://www.onlythevaliant.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; today!)

But to sum up my reaction to the issue...I thought it was heartbreakingly, brutally realistic in the outcome. The fact is, there are many examples of wonderful human beings that have such potential to change the world for the better who come into the world and suddenly leave it before ever reaching their full potential. It totally sucks and it hurts, but it's reality. Do I wish that Kay survived this skirmish? You dang right I do! But her sacrifice will stay with me as a reader, and I am excited to see how her death will impact Bloodshot, Gilad and the others involved in this tale.

I can't wait to pick up my copy of issue 4 today and relax this evening with all four in front of me for one glorious re-read!

dornwolf · Post by **dornwolf** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 1:57 pm

erwinrafael wrote:The payoff is so freakingly underwhelming consudering the costs. You killed off a refreshingly new character in Kay McHenry for this? You removed Bloodshot's capabilities for this? You made all VEI characters team up for this? And you made use of the Boon for this?

What a joke. Really, I am sticking to my vow before that I would just stay within the FVL and Dysart corner of VEI. Then I would just pick up the Nord, Perez and Suayan books.

What a disappointment.

I kind of agree. It's a shame to just fridge a character we never really saw and replace her with a character we'll probably never see again. As for Bloodshot I have a feeling he'll be getting his nanites back at some point since that's kind of his thing, removing them otherwise seems less like a development and more like a writer trying to make him easier to write.

bygranddesign · Post by **bygranddesign** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 2:13 pm

I had a few issues with this mini-series .. but I thought this was a strong final issue

And the payoff is HUGE - it will have BIG impact on the VEI universe for a very very long time

Death of Kay / and the New Geomancer

Bloodshot is now Ray Garrison ... and will start a new status quo for the character and makes the rebooted title Bloodshot Reborn feel more essential, exciting and interesting for me. I think its going to be more than a "superhero" book and more crime/mystery noir storytelling in which Lemire can really explore issues and storytelling ideas that are different and surprising.

Whether Gilad finally beat Immortal Enemy is an interesting question ... with a new geomancer taking over for Kay in the present does that mean that the age of darkness won't happen...?

I think the results will be a mixed bag....

and it will be interesting to see how that fight in the future plays out ...

bygranddesign · Post by **bygranddesign** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 2:22 pm

Sir Sandrick wrote:
Terrible typo on bottom of page 11 "Well, well. Aren't you are a resilient little soldier?" Made me reread it and took me out of the nail-biting moment. Oooops! Other than that, just a phenomenal read and great lead in for what is to come.

I have to admit ..those typos drive me nuts. It ruins the experience for me a bit. This is a big mini-series .. and to miss something like that bothers me.

dornwolf · Post by **dornwolf** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 2:35 pm

Just had a thought Kay could be brought back to life. Merely use the same way that Clay was saved over in VH1

BugsySig · Post by **BugsySig** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 2:43 pm

As I think about this, it's quite possible that Kay's death could become the VEI equivalent to the death of Tohru in Unity.

Only a handful of issues, tons of potential, killed off "too soon" and always remembered as the "best" version of a legacy character to which all other versions are to be compared.

bygranddesign · Post by **bygranddesign** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 2:58 pm

BugsySig wrote:As I think about this, it's quite possible that Kay's death could become the VEI equivalent to the death of Tohru in Unity.

Only a handful of issues, tons of potential, killed off "too soon" and always remembered as the "best" version of a legacy character to which all other versions are to be compared.

Yep. Definitely a character that had a lot of untapped potential ... and very likeable, relateable character..

Her introduction in A&A was very strong ... and we were all clamoring to have her back ... and to finally see her the focus of this big mini-series and to have this happen .. is tough to take.

She'll be our "Spider-Gwen" in about 30 years

dornwolf · Post by **dornwolf** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 3:02 pm

bygranddesign wrote: She'll be our "Spider-Gwen" in about 30 years

So a cashin character used for an event where the side character is far more interesting and better written in a side story than the actual event

or

a character that writers just won`t let die despite being pretty much usless because they all like her more than this other character and demand that we like her too.

bygranddesign · Post by **bygranddesign** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 3:17 pm

BugsySig wrote:
For a second I really thought Kay was going to survive just because she actually fought back, and I'm really disappointed that she was killed. That character was one of my favorites and had hardly been tapped to her full potential yet. Perhaps her appearance in Bloodshot Reborn will be more than a figment of BS's imagination? Maybe her "soul" was actually absorbed by the Nanites?

This is an interesting question ... what did she actually do to the nanites?

Did she destroy them?

Or did she just turn them off?

If she just turned them off ... maybe she imprinted herself upon the nanites?

We know that the nanites consume the dying person to capture the soul ... but Kay being a geomancer might be able to transfer her soul into the nanites (bypass the consuming part) - and maybe thats what she meant by her purpose.

Her purpose is to help Ray(bloodshot) have a new life. Kay will be another soul within the nanites ..except she will control them so Ray could be normal.

She will essentially be the new Goldie boy -

Ras the future fan · Post by **Ras the future fan** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 3:26 pm

bygranddesign wrote:
BugsySig wrote:
For a second I really thought Kay was going to survive just because she actually fought back, and I'm really disappointed that she was killed. That character was one of my favorites and had hardly been tapped to her full potential yet. Perhaps her appearance in Bloodshot Reborn will be more than a figment of BS's imagination? Maybe her "soul" was actually absorbed by the Nanites?
This is an interesting question ... what did she actually do to the nanites?

Did she destroy them?

Or did she just turn them off?

If she just turned them off ... maybe she imprinted herself upon the nanites?

We know that the nanites consume the dying person to capture the soul ... but Kay being a geomancer might be able to transfer her soul into the nanites (bypass the consuming part) - and maybe thats what she meant by her purpose.

Her purpose is to help Ray(bloodshot) have a new life. Kay will be another soul within the nanites ..except she will control them so Ray could be normal.

She will essentially be the new Goldie boy -

I like the way you think, good idea.

greg · Post by **greg** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 3:47 pm

Future Gilad could have sent that Geomancer to the past any time... but he waited until the Immortal Enemy was near the Boon.
====== Adding this note on May 19, 2015: The new Geomancer's name is Tama. ======
Did the Boon kill the Immortal Enemy, and is the Geomancer now "Boon-powered" by the life-force of the Immortal Enemy?

Did Gilad allow his own "Eternal" life to be taken by the Boon as well?

Is this Geomancer actually an Immortal Eternal Geomancer, with the life-force of BOTH of them inside her?

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