Divinity #1 Discussion

[jmatt]

I thought the art was great. Yeah, okay, so that one face in one panel is a little off but otherwise I thought it was terrific.

[pixierosa]

I thought it was great. Kindt is a skilled writer and employs subtle literary devices so his stories seem more sophisticated then some in the genre.

Lots of biblical references and time themes.

I wrote a blog piece discussing some of my thoughts over at Valiant Central:

http://valiantcentral.com/ground-contro ... ivinity-1/

I like how the first and last panels of the book are both the perspective of an infant's hand reaching upward to the sky (or out into the world). I took the last panel to mean that Abram was once again abandoned, only this time the basket was his space pod. Abandoned in a world where he has no ties and no knowledge of. It's all foreign to him. Let's not forget that he's also gone through a sort of rebirth - he is no longer Abram Adams, which is why he refers to that self in the third person. He's something else now.

[pixierosa]

Makes you wonder how he got this ability. Initially I expected it to be due to some singular series of events that happened in space - a freak accident, but the Russian goal was to go to the limits of space and what the human mind can fathom. Maybe in doing so, in going beyond our reality plus the suspended dream state, freed his mind to what it truly is capable of. The image of him drifting in space, towards either a planet or an eye -- what if that's just him, his own eye - the art is a metaphor for what is happening within him.

Think of all the biblical references peppered in here, too - if man is made in God's image, what if ultimately man has the ability to create in the same way? Abram has become divine - godlike, because of his godlike abilities. He's creating things in the way the Christian God has - birds, butterflies... but his creations are limited to his knowledge and experience.

[ilzuccone]

Think of all the biblical references peppered in here, too - if man is made in God's image, what if ultimately man has the ability to create in the same way?

mormons have been saying this for years.

[depluto]

We do ... I made two little humans but they can be annoying as hell sometimes.

[Brapbrap]

he is no longer Abram Adams, which is why he refers to that self in the third person. He's something else now.

nope, the narrator still refers to him as abram adams when hes by the crashed pod

i think he stops thinking of himself as abram adams a while after this when something happens that we haven't seen yet

[pixierosa]

I don't think he gains these powers after he crash lands back on earth, though it may be that is the point where he realizes that he is more than what he was. But it's safe to suffice that at the point he meets David, he is already well aware of his powers since he already has followers. The narration, though, takes place after all of this - that's why it refers to David's journey as another well worn page. It may not be an event that makes him completely detach from who he was, but just the eventual passage of time. He has to reread these "pages" in order to remember because either too much time has passed for them to be clearly remembered or his own awareness is so much "more" that he has lost some of his humanity. He skips through time revisiting events just like we skip back and forth in books to reread sections.

[Brother Darque]

Time is not absolute!

[Joshua]

I thought this was great. I bet I could find a thing or two I missed the next couple of times I re-read it.

[jkingman]

yeah...I realize now that the timeline confused me...they keep saying that the trip will take 30 years, that his girlfriend will be 50 by the time he gets back. but if the rocket takes off in 1960 (as a panel from next issue confirms) then Abram is only 15, his girlfriend is 20. And somehow the trip takes over 50 years and not 30, but that fact isn't ever mentioned by Abrams, which seems odd... so it seems David might be his grandson, not son as I first thought...

[jkingman]

he is no longer Abram Adams, which is why he refers to that self in the third person. He's something else now.

nope, the narrator still refers to him as abram adams when hes by the crashed pod

i think he stops thinking of himself as abram adams a while after this when something happens that we haven't seen yet

he says "David Camp meet Abram Adams, the man I used to be"

[agent_graves]

I enjoyed the issue.

I was also completely lost through the last couple pages.

Me too, I think an oversized first issue, would of helped flesh things out a bit...

[BugsySig]

yeah...I realize now that the timeline confused me...they keep saying that the trip will take 30 years, that his girlfriend will be 50 by the time he gets back. but if the rocket takes off in 1960 (as a panel from next issue confirms) then Abram is only 15, his girlfriend is 20. And somehow the trip takes over 50 years and not 30, but that fact isn't ever mentioned by Abrams, which seems odd... so it seems David might be his grandson, not son as I first thought...

I am curious as to the timeline. He says he was abandoned in 1945 (right after WWII). Assuming he was leaving around 65, he was 20 when he left, same as his GF. The trip was to take 30 yrs but obviously went wrong, and it takes him 50 yrs to return.

[jkingman]

yeah...I realize now that the timeline confused me...they keep saying that the trip will take 30 years, that his girlfriend will be 50 by the time he gets back. but if the rocket takes off in 1960 (as a panel from next issue confirms) then Abram is only 15, his girlfriend is 20. And somehow the trip takes over 50 years and not 30, but that fact isn't ever mentioned by Abrams, which seems odd... so it seems David might be his grandson, not son as I first thought...

I am curious as to the timeline. He says he was abandoned in 1945 (right after WWII). Assuming he was leaving around 65, he was 20 when he left, same as his GF. The trip was to take 30 yrs but obviously went wrong, and it takes him 50 yrs to return.

someone posted a preview from issue two that shows him taking off in 1960 on the Valiant fan page on Facebook. so maybe that preview caption is wrong or has been adjusted. I just noticed reading the story that they kept saying 30 years for the mission and was wondering who David Camp was and why Abram went to him first...and son seemed the logical leap. grandson is possible, but not as direct a connection, unless David's dad and Abrams son is dead or something. so maybe Camp is relevant for some other reason. but Abrams now is 70 years old, his son would be 50 and could have a son in his mid-20s as Camp appears to be.

We were also stumped about that page with the Vine...was that something he imagined as a kid, or was it a scene from his adventures in space? and has anyone else heard the podcast, where Hawkeye floats a very interesting concept?

[dornwolf]

We do ... I made two little humans but they can be annoying as hell sometimes.

I was totally going to make that joke to

[hunter_peterson]

yeah...I realize now that the timeline confused me...they keep saying that the trip will take 30 years, that his girlfriend will be 50 by the time he gets back. but if the rocket takes off in 1960 (as a panel from next issue confirms) then Abram is only 15, his girlfriend is 20. And somehow the trip takes over 50 years and not 30, but that fact isn't ever mentioned by Abrams, which seems odd... so it seems David might be his grandson, not son as I first thought...

I am curious as to the timeline. He says he was abandoned in 1945 (right after WWII). Assuming he was leaving around 65, he was 20 when he left, same as his GF. The trip was to take 30 yrs but obviously went wrong, and it takes him 50 yrs to return.

someone posted a preview from issue two that shows him taking off in 1960 on the Valiant fan page on Facebook. so maybe that preview caption is wrong or has been adjusted. I just noticed reading the story that they kept saying 30 years for the mission and was wondering who David Camp was and why Abram went to him first...and son seemed the logical leap. grandson is possible, but not as direct a connection, unless David's dad and Abrams son is dead or something. so maybe Camp is relevant for some other reason. but Abrams now is 70 years old, his son would be 50 and could have a son in his mid-20s as Camp appears to be.

We were also stumped about that page with the Vine...was that something he imagined as a kid, or was it a scene from his adventures in space? and has anyone else heard the podcast, where Hawkeye floats a very interesting concept?

Easy explanation is that he went further than they meant for him to.

[Sven the Returned]

I won't say I was disappointed, but it wasn't what I expected it to be. I thought it would feel a little more cosmic. Instead it felt very existential to me. Maybe the cosmic, epic and grand feel is coming. I sure hope so. The issue certainly raised a ton of questions and it may be that this si a series we won't fully understand til it completely finished. One thing I find interesting is the whole concept of time being fluid, so I am sure that will be explored a lot, with the character of Divinity moving back and forth through different times in his life with ease. One thing we know is Matt Kindt does every little thing for a reason and there are always little hints throughout his books. One thing I noticed is the hands missing on the watch in the panel below. I would be willing to bet it was done on purpose!

civ1 by The Comic Source, on Flickr

In Soviet Russia drugs smoke you.

[jmatt]

Additional observations on second read:

Not sure if this means anything but in the classroom (just before his selection) the chalkboard is completely blank but he's sketching some kind of pod. I am going to assume the blank chalkboard is some kind of artistic or editorial oversight.

Anyone notice that his suit has a great big red "V" on the chest? For Valiant!

Before he enters the flower shop, we see the future him in the suit inside and looking out at him. Coupled with him looking at himself in the basket on the doorstep, this entire issue is a flashback... something that didn't quite sink in on my first read.

Much in the same way eyes were a sub-theme in Bladerunner, in this book hands are. We see panels and panels of hands reaching up to the stars, clutching one another (his girlfriend), working a buckle on his restraining harness, reaching up as David Camp ascends the cliff... hand images are everywhere... including the baby at the end reaching out toward him as he flies away.

In the sketches at the end of the book, "return trip thrusters" is crossed out and there is mention of of them on the next page "if necessary" for return trip.

[String]

With his passing back and forth through time amidst his recollections, I couldn't help but be reminded of Dr. Manhattan.

Trippy book, but in a good way, certainly enough to warrant reading the next issue.

[jmatt]

With his passing back and forth through time amidst his recollections, I couldn't help but be reminded of Dr. Manhattan.

Yes, it very much read that way.

The Vine scene was something from the book, which, I might add, is another touchstone of Solar. VH1 Phil Seleski took the form of Solar because he read the GK Solar as a child.

[ErikG]

It took a while before I got around to reading this issue. And then I read it again. And again. I think and certainly hope we may be looking at a new 'Alpha & Omega". The pacing is excellent, the story delightfully enigmatic, and I certainly don't want answers up-front. I liked the art very much; the panel breakdowns add a great deal, and there was a Fifties feel to the early days, a more "Quitelyesque" look to the present. I already know I will be getting the hardcover, because Divinity has the makings of a classic comic.

And thank you pixierosa! Major Tom! Of course. Wonderful.

[Mandrakk]

With his passing back and forth through time amidst his recollections, I couldn't help but be reminded of Dr. Manhattan.

Yeah I also got that vibe from it.

Makes you wonder how he got this ability. Initially I expected it to be due to some singular series of events that happened in space - a freak accident, but the Russian goal was to go to the limits of space and what the human mind can fathom. Maybe in doing so, in going beyond our reality plus the suspended dream state, freed his mind to what it truly is capable of. The image of him drifting in space, towards either a planet or an eye -- what if that's just him, his own eye - the art is a metaphor for what is happening within him.

To me his abilities come from different factors: I think the guy was a latent Psiot just like any other but that the combination of his training/upbringing/Conditionning(drugs and all) along with the cryo stasis and the halfdreamstate his combination puts him in(which somehow made me think of how the Bleeding Monk activated with his meditation)plus him being in space expanded his mind a lot more that it would have for any other Psiot and thus gave him his godlike power.
A bit like Director Carter from PRS that got himself activated, but without the unstability factor, who before Dying claimed to be seeing the whole universe and every particle in it.(well I say without the instability, but who knows Abram might need the suit to not lose himself like Carter did)

Anyway I loved this issue as it shows a lot of potential, I wonder when this takes place in the Timeline Though as if this is post Harada's outing I cannot see him not notice this and try to use it to his advantage given his own position.

[krylox]

Confuse me like this ANY TIME. It was brilliant.

Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind brilliant... and I'm SURE I'll need to read it again immediately after #4.

true! this is the kind of book i'd love to be getting more of the new valiant. something novel and fascinating and less rebooty like this was missing from new valiant for a long time. i'm very intrigued about divinity!

also this was kindt's best writing at valiant from what i've read until now. i think he's much much better, when he can do his own mind-twisting, sci-fi thing and doesn't really excel at writing traditional superhero stories.

[leonmallett]

An interesting read and set-up for the series, and one that may read better in one sitting as a whole I suspect.

I do not buy Kindt's explanation for a black Russian cosmonaut though. As Kindt has made that both a plot and character point, it does bear comment. I said elsewhere it felt contrived, and just does not really seem to stack up to me.

[SJS4]

I do not buy Kindt's explanation for a black Russian cosmonaut though. As Kindt has made that both a plot and character point, it does bear comment. I said elsewhere it felt contrived, and just does not really seem to stack up to me.

Just curious about this comment. What aren't you buying?