January 2015 Sales Discussion

[lorddunlow]

cray_ws is free to speak his mind, though.

Of course. We're not Hitler...

Or are we?

[TheFerg714]

I'd like to second what a lot of people have been mentioning... new Valiant fans are popping up at least once a week on the CBR forums. Sadly, I can't say the same for 4chan's comic board (/co/). Those losers won't won't give anything a chance unless it's Marvel or DC.

Valiant needs to raise the quality of their titles, to become a big fish in the sea of so many comics out there. There's like over 400 comics published in any given month, Valiant needs to figure out how to get people's attention, and it can't just be speculative like variants because that's just temporary. It's got to be a long term thing and raising the bar of their titles will get people to take notice and word of the mouth will spread beyond the walls of Valiant fandom. X-O MANOWAR is their most recognizable IP, and more than likely Valiant's top seller. So they need to keep making it a better book. I'm not saying it's bad, but every comic has room for improvement, especially if it's not the leading top seller.

I really don't know what Valiant's not doing that you want it to be doing. From my perspective, Valiant is focusing on making really good comics, first and foremost. Sure X-O is in a bit of a slump lately, but that's to be expected when it's inbetween two huge story arcs (Armor Hunters; Dead Hand), as well as taking a backseat to the new Valiant Next titles.
Honestly, what they're doing should work in theory. You're saying they should raise the bar, and play the long game, but that's exactly what they're doing. That's the reason I got into Valiant in the first place, and I think that's why a lot of people have been flocking our way as well.
(Also, X-O is the third highest seller this month, below Timewalker and The Valiant)

Someone asked who Valiant's rival is....I don't think they have one yet and that itself is a problem. They need to compete to gain any recognition beyond it's own fandom.

I actually think it's a good thing that they don't have a rival right now. Consider the following:
A- Marvel / DC
B- Image
C- Dark Horse / IDW
D- Boom / Dynamite
E- Everything else
Currently, Valiant is leading almost every monthly-sale chart, compared to the other smaller publishers. Hopefully, it'll eventually break into D-tier and challenge Dynamite with the advent of Valiant Next.

I actually agree with jaspersk. Most of my favorite titles are Image, and they make a bunch of great stuff, but Image sells in the #3 spot because of TWD and speculation. I stopped taking many chances on new Image books. The good ones are the ones that become talked about. I try the titles that sound cool when they have massive discounts but otherwise, I wait and see.

Yes. This.

cray_ws is free to speak his mind, though.

Well no s**t.

[ilzuccone]

Doom

[cray_ws]

I actually agree with jaspersk. Most of my favorite titles are Image, and they make a bunch of great stuff, but Image sells in the #3 spot because of TWD and speculation. I stopped taking many chances on new Image books. The good ones are the ones that become talked about. I try the titles that sound cool when they have massive discounts but otherwise, I wait and see.

This is such a crock, Marvel and DC sell drastically more speculative material than Image does. How many variant covers does TWD have a month? How many Avenger titles are there now, with variants too? How about DC's Batman titles and variants too.

THE WALKING DEAD sells because it reaches the masses outside of the collector bubble. But some of you seem to think that if title sells beyond the bubble...it's speculation. That's not case with TWD, the I.P. is recognizable via it's TV show. I would not label that as speculative. Especially considering the show has been on the air for over 4 years now.

[BugsySig]

I actually agree with jaspersk. Most of my favorite titles are Image, and they make a bunch of great stuff, but Image sells in the #3 spot because of TWD and speculation. I stopped taking many chances on new Image books. The good ones are the ones that become talked about. I try the titles that sound cool when they have massive discounts but otherwise, I wait and see.

This is such a crock, Marvel and DC sell drastically more speculative material than Image does. How many variant covers does TWD have a month? How many Avenger titles are there now, with variants too? How about DC's Batman titles and variants too.

THE WALKING DEAD sells because it reaches the masses outside of the collector bubble. But some of you seem to think that if title sells beyond the bubble...it's speculation. That's not case with TWD, the I.P. is recognizable via it's TV show. I would not label that as speculative. Especially considering the show has been on the air for over 4 years now.

I think what he was saying was that a lot of new image books sell well because people are speculating it could be the next TWD and not because they're all actually good. Not that they are bad, but it's different than the Marvel/DC speculation.

Also, TWD was doing pretty huge numbers for an independent before the show ever hit the air.

[cray_ws]

I think what he was saying was that a lot of new image books sell well because people are speculating it could be the next TWD and not because they're all actually good. Not that they are bad, but it's different than the Marvel/DC speculation.

Also, TWD was doing pretty huge numbers for an independent before the show ever hit the air.

I don't buy Image books in hopes of them being the next TWD, anyone who thinks that's why Image books sell is dismissing them for what they really are....good comics. As you pointed out TWD has been selling well before the TV show. So again that's not speculative. You can't tell me that DC and Marvel books are not speculative...they are advertising brochures for their I.P.s They are inherently speculative by shear amount of hype that surrounds their titles. Watch the new Bryan Hitch JLA book have a handful of variants and speculators flocking to see his JLA art, wherein his own Image title REAL HEROES is blip on the radar by comparison. Same art...different characters and publishers. So it's not Image, it's DC and Marvel that get speculators attention.

[jaspersk]

Actually I enjoy reading Walking Dead but tried reading older issues but couldnt get into it. Saga, morning glories, chew and god hates astronauts are books. I also read.
Panzerfaust, nailbiter, rat queens, manifest destiny, clone got hot on speculation. I also read deadly class and enjoy it and manhattan projects still trying to make heads or tails out of east of west gave up on revival was enthused by low's first issue then was completely confused by the second issue same thing with black science tried to get into it but hate the art. I try the hickman remender books but they are a bit too confusing. Then theres about 50 other image books with several new titles always being solicited. Many crap image titles sell well over 11k while many better valiant books struggle to sell 7k.
I think all these creators try to pump out a bunch of different comics and see if anything is optioned or turns into a more valuable property. Marvel wise i read hickman avengers remenders uncanny avengers world and the spider verse was interesting. Dc the only thing interesting is wonder woman.
Other than that its all valiant. I buy variant covers for all companies and read the stories of those books
I happen to get. Ive been reading reviews of new valiant online and they have been good one says that there are a lot of good conics out and valiant is making a good portion of them.
Marvel and Dc are always going to be the big two they have longevity. Image has been around a long time and have long selling titles like spawn savage dragon witchblade even if they are crap. Zenescope will always be about t&a. Boom is really about animated titles and the art for the virgin covers is pretty good. Idw dark horse and dynamite im less familiar with but they all have their staples sonja vampirella joe transformers turtles bronies buffy. Now if Valiant had never become acclaim and never folded as they were once greater than image comics that would be a different story. I came back to reading comics a few years back do you think some of the old readers who havent done comics in a long time come back to valiant. Not all sellers push valiant or read them maybe valiant should focus on visiting more shops to pitch their books the sellers that push valiant sell a bunch more. One shop told me that if it wasnt for image pumping out so many books valiant would be doing a lot better. Theres a lot of money in comics but theres also a finite amount people have to spend. At the very least Valiant is building the foundations of something. Image writers create something like Nowhere men that makes a few issues and a million variants then disappears then they resurface with another title and expect people to get duped again. I am disappointed in the weak sales numbers for Valiant but also encouraged by sales on newer titles and the great reviews. I just hope image and others dont poach the creative talent behind the valiant titles. Would i rather have clayton crain drawing rai or some poorly written mcfarlane book. Now if we could ever get lootcrate to pick up a Valiant book
Then we would see double the sales for that month and some great publicity.
I hope to see the day that there are 15 titles or more from valiant and why not. We have a solar without solar well have a turok without turok and a non magnusrobot fighter if necessary.
The direction is good even if the numbers arent always great.
And Valiant has a great core fan base.

[lorddunlow]

I said "TWD and speculation". TWD is an aberration. It is a phenomenon. It sells better than any other comic in recent history on a consistent basis. The speculation is on the other books. Image would have a much less impressive market share if you remove TWD and the #1 speculation sales.

[cray_ws]

I said "TWD and speculation". TWD is an aberration. It is a phenomenon. It sells better than any other comic in recent history on a consistent basis. The speculation is on the other books. Image would have a much less impressive market share if you remove TWD and the #1 speculation sales.

I really don't think you understand what speculation is, I'm going to define it in terms of comic books. I see it as short-term spikes in sale due to variants and heavy promotion (events). Image does not do a lot of promoting of their books like Marvel and DC. They are kings of sensationalism. Image may do variants, but again nowhere near amount of what Marvel and DC do. The latter are all about short term sales because their books are about selling ad space. Image does not prioritize selling ad space in their books. That is strictly up to the individual teams involved in each book. Many of them move their ads to the back, and they vary in what ads are shown.

Also Image does better in trades than they do with monthlies, which is not a speculative market at all.

I personally think you're stuck in the last decade when it comes to talking about Image. I will admit at one time they were highly speculative, probably just as much as Marvel and DC did a decade ago. But things have changed Image isn't what it used to be, there's vastly more substantial work being done by some of the premiere creators in the business. This is how Image rivals Marvel and DC, not with characters, but with the creators themselves.

[lorddunlow]

I really don't think you understand what speculation is, I'm going to define it in terms of comic books.

Dude, calm your *SQUEE*.

No need to be condescending. We're talking about funny books here.

I know full well what speculation is. Image #1s are a big speculation target. That is fact. You don't need multiple covers or marketing for collectors to speculate.

Just check the "hot comics" thread. The books discussed are either Image #1s or books with character appearances that are possibly going to be popular, either due to an upcoming storyline or book or because they will be in a movie.

Marvel and DC sell big numbers because they are the backbone of the industry (I'm not saying they are necessarily good or bad, it is just the fact that retailers order these more because they sell more for whatever reason - I get that you hate them.)

I'm putting forth a hypothesis that Image sales as much as it does for several reasons:
1) they are among the oldest indy publishers which garners trust and brand recognition
2) they make good books (most of my pull list comes from Image)
3) TWD
4) Speculation on #1 issues - it happens.

Now, I'm not saying Image isn't great. However, I believe (as in my opinion) that if you subtract the sales from #3 and #4 above, that you would see market share closer to Dark Horse. They'd likely still have a healthy lead, but I don't think they'd be anywhere near Marvel and DC.

Anyway, this is a stupid discussion. I'm out.

Yay Valiant!

[cray_ws]

Actually I enjoy reading Walking Dead but tried reading older issues but couldnt get into it. Saga, morning glories, chew and god hates astronauts are books. I also read.
Panzerfaust, nailbiter, rat queens, manifest destiny, clone got hot on speculation. I also read deadly class and enjoy it and manhattan projects still trying to make heads or tails out of east of west gave up on revival was enthused by low's first issue then was completely confused by the second issue same thing with black science tried to get into it but hate the art. I try the hickman remender books but they are a bit too confusing. Then theres about 50 other image books with several new titles always being solicited. Many crap image titles sell well over 11k while many better valiant books struggle to sell 7k.
I think all these creators try to pump out a bunch of different comics and see if anything is optioned or turns into a more valuable property. Marvel wise i read hickman avengers remenders uncanny avengers world and the spider verse was interesting. Dc the only thing interesting is wonder woman.
Other than that its all valiant. I buy variant covers for all companies and read the stories of those books
I happen to get. Ive been reading reviews of new valiant online and they have been good one says that there are a lot of good conics out and valiant is making a good portion of them.
Marvel and Dc are always going to be the big two they have longevity. Image has been around a long time and have long selling titles like spawn savage dragon witchblade even if they are crap. Zenescope will always be about t&a. Boom is really about animated titles and the art for the virgin covers is pretty good. Idw dark horse and Dynamite (sucks!) im less familiar with but they all have their staples sonja vampirella joe transformers turtles bronies buffy. Now if Valiant had never become acclaim and never folded as they were once greater than image comics that would be a different story. I came back to reading comics a few years back do you think some of the old readers who havent done comics in a long time come back to valiant. Not all sellers push valiant or read them maybe valiant should focus on visiting more shops to pitch their books the sellers that push valiant sell a bunch more. One shop told me that if it wasnt for image pumping out so many books valiant would be doing a lot better. Theres a lot of money in comics but theres also a finite amount people have to spend. At the very least Valiant is building the foundations of something. Image writers create something like Nowhere men that makes a few issues and a million variants then disappears then they resurface with another title and expect people to get duped again. I am disappointed in the weak sales numbers for Valiant but also encouraged by sales on newer titles and the great reviews. I just hope image and others dont poach the creative talent behind the valiant titles. Would i rather have clayton crain drawing rai or some poorly written mcfarlane book. Now if we could ever get lootcrate to pick up a Valiant book
Then we would see double the sales for that month and some great publicity.
I hope to see the day that there are 15 titles or more from valiant and why not. We have a solar without solar well have a turok without turok and a non magnusrobot fighter if necessary.
The direction is good even if the numbers arent always great.
And Valiant has a great core fan base.

Let me preface this carefully, I like what I've read of Valiant and I wholeheartedly enjoy their books. They sooth my itch for continuity-verse comics. But the Image books you listed that you have deemed speculative crap because you couldn't figure it out are probably head and shoulders more sophisticated (and maybe a little too pretentious) than anything Valiant has published, with the exception of Dr. Mirage mini-series. I had no problems understanding EAST OF WEST, SAGA, LOW and BLACK SCIENCE. These books were not that hard to understand at least to me. I'm going to wager that you probably are just more comfortable reading something more straightforward I guess.

I see you're pigeon-holing "spawn savage dragon witchblade even if they are crap" These titles are no more crap than Batman and X-men. Those books are from the 90's, and haven't been popular in decade, so they are hardly worth being classified as speculative sales.

Oh and just to correct you on something, Image does not editorially control their creators. Image is just a label, nothing more. In other words they don't poach other publishers. Clayton Crain voluntarily decided to do SAVIOR with McFarlane. Image didn't make any attempt to steal him. That deal is between Crain and McFarlane. So don't assume Image as whole is pulling the strings for every book published under their label. If they did, they probably wouldn't have so many titles that overlap each other in terms of genre.

Seriously think this board misunderstands what Image is about, especially today.

[Phoenix8008]

Want some solid statistical proof of more/newer people checking out Valiant? Here are the current stats for the /r/Valiant subreddit for the last year. January's pageviews were the highest ever, and the unique visits were only 2 away from the highest ever. February is only half over and it already has nearly as many pageviews, and the unique views are looking really strong already as well.

Code: Select all

Traffic by month

Date              Uniques                Pageviews
February           271                      1,369 
January            354                      1,685 
December           206                        781 
November           192                        664 
October            223                        894 
September          206                        738 
August             182                        902 
July               255                      1,075 
June               305                        937 
May                349                      1,362 
April              356                      1,107 
March              200                        660

DOOOOOM! (to the doomsayers!)

[lorddunlow]

Want some solid statistical proof of more/newer people checking out Valiant? Here are the current stats for the /r/Valiant subreddit for the last year. January's pageviews were the highest ever, and the unique visits were only 2 away from the highest ever. February is only half over and it already has nearly as many pageviews, and the unique views are looking really strong already as well.

Code: Select all

Traffic by month

Date              Uniques                Pageviews
February           271                      1,369 
January            354                      1,685 
December           206                        781 
November           192                        664 
October            223                        894 
September          206                        738 
August             182                        902 
July               255                      1,075 
June               305                        937 
May                349                      1,362 
April              356                      1,107 
March              200                        660

DOOOOOM! (to the doomsayers!)