A Valiant Comics Who'd win - precurser

cjv · Post by **cjv** » Fri May 07, 2004 11:06 am

Unlike most other comic book companies, Valiant didn't regularly pit its own heroes against each other. This was a *good* thing. However, it left open the many questions about who would win if Valiant people would fight each other on a regular basis. So I am creating a tournament to decide who the ultimate victor would be in a Valiant slug fest.

The Good Guys
1 -Turok
2 -XO
3 -Bloodshot
4 -Gilad
5 -Archer
6 -Armstrong
7 -Sting
8 -Magnus
9 -Shadowman
10 -Rai (the old one)
11 -Rai (from Rai 9)
12 -Ninjak
13 -Dr. Mirage
14 -The Visitor
15 -Solar (should he be removed - too powerful?)
16 -The Destroyer (same as 15)
17 -Armorines
18 -HARD Corp
19 -PSI Lords
20 -Flamingo
21 -Torque
22 - Ivar

The Bad Guys
23 -Harada
24 -Dr. Eclipse
25 -Darque
26 -Pierce (same at 15 and 16?)
27 -Spider Aliens
28 -Malevs
29 -The Harbinger
30 -The Egg Breakers
31 - Sandria
32 - Immortal Enemy

Some questions to ask -
if we are talking one of the "teams" (PSILords, HARD Corp, Armorines) do we have them fight as a unit, or as an individual? If it is an individual, does it matter which one? Along the same lines, with a bad guy "race" - (The Malevs or the Spider Aliens) are we talking about one individual, a group of them, the whole race, etc? These are questions I would like responses from you.

Counting the three teams, that brings to total to 28 people. Can you think of someone I am missing? (Feel free to post). Or is there someone I have here that you think I shouldn't.

When you vote (in later threads) I am asking you to consider who would win MOST of the time. That is, Turok may find a way to beat Solar once in a blue moon, but Solar probably would win under most circumstances.

Also, "all powerful" entities (like Solar and Pierce) - should they be excluded, since chances are they would be able to wipe the board with almost anyone?

Anyway, here is what I am thinking the matchups should be like in the first round

XO vs Turok
HARD Corp vs Armorines
Spider Aliens vs Malevs
Rai old vs Rai new
Armstrong vs Gilad
Bloodshot gets a bye in the first round, to face the winner of the Rai battle
Shadowman vs Dr. Mirage
Sting vs. Harada
Magnus vs. Torque
Ninjak vs Archer
Psi Lords vs the Destroyer
Solar vs Pierce
Eclipse vs. Darque (winner fights the winner of the Shadowman/Mirage battle)
Visitor vs. the Harbinger
Egg Breakers vs Flamingo (not a marquee mathup, but the only two left)

Don't vote now as to who will win - that thread will come later. This is only to set up the tournament.

Any thoughts? Should we have different first round bouts? More players to add? Let me know.

Chris

Jaknife · Post by **Jaknife** » Fri May 07, 2004 11:33 am

sandria vs. nettie

and you might add in deathangel(nanite enhanced jillian). maybe goro sanada, unless you are talking the main guys. also, you left off the immortal enemy, who could face bloodshot in round 1. campaigner, captain red, solar the destroyer, rai(middle, takao konishi), ivar, geomancers, secret weapons(the team of four), and the other renegade harbingers, are all guys you left off. i say the armorines/psi lords/secret weapons/hard corps act as a team. bloodshot took the whole hard corps team, so acting as a group wouldnt be all that unfair.

cjv · Post by **cjv** » Fri May 07, 2004 11:38 am

This is how I see the tournament breaking down, btw.

Round 1

Bracket a) Individual guys
Battle 1a)Rai (first Rai) vs Rai (Bloodshot Rai)

Battle 1b) Bloodshot vs Ninjak

Battle 1c) Gilad vs Eternal Enemy

Battle 1d) Armstrong vs Archer

Bracket b)Harbingers
Battle 1e) Eggbreakers vs. Flamingo

Battle 1f) Magnus vs. Torque

Battle 1g) Visitor vs. Harbinger

Battle 1h) Sting vs. Harada

Bracket c) magic and technology
Battle 1i) Eclipse vs. Darque

Battle 1j) Shadowman vs. Mirage

Battle 1k) XO vs Turok

Battle 1l) Sandria vs Ivar (doesn't really fit anywhere else)

Bracket d) Big guns
Battle 1m) Spider Aliens vs. Malevs

Battle 1n) Armorings vs. HARDCorp

Battle 1o) Pierce vs. Solar

Battle 1p) PSILords vs. Destroyer

Round 2
Bracket a)
Battle 2a) Winner of 1a vs winner of 1b

Battle 2b) Winner of 1c vs Winner of 1d

Bracket b)
Battle 2c) Winner of 1e vs Winner of 1F

Battle 2d)Winner of 1g vs. Winner of 1h

Bracket c)
Battle 2e) Winner of 1i vs. Winner of 1j

Battle 2f) Winner of 1k vs. Winner of 1l

Bracket d)
Battle 2g) Winner of 1m vs. winner of 1n

Battle 2h) Winner of 1o vs. winner of 1p

Round 3 - Bracket champions
Bracket a) Battle 3a) Winner of 2a vs winner of 2b

Bracket b) Battle 3b) Winner of 2c vs winner of 2d

Bracket c) Battle 3c) Winner of 2e vs winner of 2f

Bracket d Battle 3d) Winner of 2g vs. winner of 2h

Round 4 - Semifinals
Bracket a winner vs Bracket c winner
Bracket b winner vs. Bracket d winner

Round 5 - the last two left standing

(edited to add people I missed!)

Feel free to suggest alternate bracket distributions!!

wrunow · Post by **wrunow** » Fri May 07, 2004 11:41 am

Wow, these are some good matchups, but shouldn't some such as Sting vs. Harada be saved for later in the tournament, also maybe you should set up brackets like the NCAA, but you'll need some sort of power rankings first. Also, why wouldn't Solar just win, he would have to be an overwhelming favorite and in each match it would be an upset if he lost, just my thoughts. Mark

cjv · Post by **cjv** » Fri May 07, 2004 11:45 am

Mark - that was one of the questions - should I just not include Solar and Pierce (and Solar the destroyer) since they are pretty much all powerful? If that is the case, I need 3 people to replace them (32 is a nice number to start with)

Feel free to suggest alternate initial starting bracket. I will assign each player a number, so that you don't have to type in each name.

Chris

wrunow · Post by **wrunow** » Fri May 07, 2004 1:34 pm

That's probably a good idea, sorry about the redundancy. I mean Solar or Pierce vs anyone isn't really a match whether it is a major player in the Valiant universe or not based on the way the universe has been set up.
I don't really know if this was JS's intention, I mean at least Superman has Kryptonite that can hurt him (probably other things too as I am not up on my DC history).

myron · Post by **myron** » Fri May 07, 2004 1:45 pm

Solar/phil had serious mental problems...the guys psychie was split three times and then jambed back together...there are many times he holds back because of latent fears and anxiety...the dudes got issues...

Jaknife · Post by **Jaknife** » Fri May 07, 2004 2:18 pm

i think XO could stand up to him pretty well. hes probably the only one though.

cjv · Post by **cjv** » Fri May 07, 2004 3:14 pm

So do we leave Solar and other in? or are they out?

Chris

Jaknife · Post by **Jaknife** » Fri May 07, 2004 3:15 pm

leave 'em. i think harada might give him a run. but it is up to you.
so when is this gonna happen?

bribri · Post by **bribri** » Fri May 07, 2004 5:39 pm

My two cents:

I understand what wrunow had to say about the first-round matchups, such as Sting v. Harada, for later rounds of the tourney. The problem is none of the classic matchups would be guaranteed. Harada or Sting could lose in the first round, thereby dismantling any hopes of a later matchup.

In other words, I like the big mathups first, as you have them. Looks good.

I'm not a big fan of the teams in the tourney. It's too vague. For example, when an individual fights the Spider Aliens, how many is he fighting? If it's three Spider Aliens, he might have a chance. But if it's 500 Spider Aliens, I doubt it. Having these characters is fine, but I think you should make a general rule regarding teams. H.A.R.D. Corps and Armorines are okay because they're finite. But you're going to have to make a decision about the Malevs, Spider Aliens, etc.

Good luck with this. I'll vote.

bribri · Post by **bribri** » Fri May 07, 2004 5:44 pm

One more thing.

You probably have some ideas on how to run the tourney, such as having each battle last for X amount of days, etc.

But I was thinking, it might be cool if someone comes up with a little story about how each battle went down. Especially if there is an upset.

This could be very entertaining.

Jaknife · Post by **Jaknife** » Fri May 07, 2004 7:00 pm

i had thought of that as well. it really would add more to the battles.

cjv · Post by **cjv** » Fri May 07, 2004 8:58 pm

This is how I was planning to set it up

Each battle would consist of a poll. Everyone could get a vote, and after a given length of time, the poll would be closed. Whoever won the vote, won the battle. (The poll question is simply "Who would win in a fight between X and Y).

If people wanted, they could post a short story or synapsis of how they saw the battle going. However, what I would like if for people to post a reasonable battle plan - what is likely to happen. IE, if the battle was between Armorines and Solar, is is plausible that the Armorines might be able to develop a weapon to disrupt Solar. Just how plausible would be determined by the vote. However, it is not very plausible that Turok could do that, so I would hope in a Turok/Solar battle, the vote would reflect that. I am not looking for highly improbably/impossible victory results (Turok finds an alien weapon that gives him Solar like powers, for example).

In terms of Spider Aliens/Malevs, I agree that we should limit it. But how would be a good way? One spaceship worth? The best fighter from each group? A specific alien group/army from one of the comics? Any suggestions welcome.

Chris

cjv · Post by **cjv** » Fri May 07, 2004 9:05 pm

Official "rules" for each battle/matchup.

1) Vote for the person/entity/group that you would think would win in a fight between the two contestants

2) Fights are considered only between the two contestants - no additional allies or support

3) Please consider the characters in the fight, and what they are realistically capable of, as they were shown in VH-1. While an upset might be possible, consider how likely a character is to be able to perform an upset

4) Please do not allow attributes, abilities, foresight, or knowledge that a character can not have

5) Advance planning is allowed (ie, the character may "know" they will be fighting) so if a character/group is reasonably able to prepare a special weapon, technique, or maneuver, they should be able to do that. The key phrase is "reasoable". While the PSI Lords might be able to develop a weapon to defeat Solar, it is doubtful that Turok could. Advance knowledge is up to the voter - it may exist, or the battle may be spur of the moment.

6) Fights may last for any length of time the voter deems is needed. They need not be to the death (IE, one of the contestants could surrender if the opponent accepts it). "Defeat" is in the eyes of the voter - killed, rendered powerless, surrendering, crying uncle, etc would all be considered defeated.

7) In some cases, an unorthadox fight might be reasonable. For example, Armstrong may choose to suggest a drinking contest (whether his opponent accepts it is another matter)

Jaknife · Post by **Jaknife** » Fri May 07, 2004 9:11 pm

it would be nice to have a reason they were fighting(ie:archer pantses aram in front of ivar, or tohru returns from the dead and wants to be rai again.) that way it wouldn't be just a deathmatch.

screamingdc · Post by **screamingdc** » Sun May 09, 2004 1:20 pm

myron wrote:Solar/phil had serious mental problems...the guys psychie was split three times and then jambed back together...there are many times he holds back because of latent fears and anxiety...the dudes got issues...

in a life or death battle, i'll still take Solar over everybody on the list. his powers are just too strong.

Jaknife · Post by **Jaknife** » Sun May 09, 2004 1:48 pm

yeah, even if he had a schiz attack, maybe xo could hurt him. anyone shoots him, subconsciously he pulls himself back together, etc.

BloodOfHeroes · Post by **BloodOfHeroes** » Sun May 09, 2004 3:33 pm

screamingdc wrote:in a life or death battle, i'll still take Solar over everybody on the list. his powers are just too strong.

I'd take even money on the Visitor (but not Sting, Harada or the Harbinger). And timing is everything, here. X-O could go pretty far and then get shut down by Bloodshot (for example).

BoH

cjv · Post by **cjv** » Mon May 10, 2004 12:05 pm

Well, a lot of that stuff is going to be in the eye of the voter.

The reason they are fighting is up to you - if it is just a friendly contest to see who is stronger, that's fine. If Harada is controlling one of them, that's fine as well. This will effect what the final outcome (submission, death, etc) will be, as well as the type of contest.

Once I hear back from Greg regarding how to set this up (one thread for each battle?) I will start posting the contests.

Chris