October 2014 Sales Discussion

[Thomas]

This is entirely annecdotal, but a LCS in Phoenix is finally blowing out the early VEI issues at $1.00 each. They have tons of X-O Manowar 1, Harbinger 1, and Archer and Armstrong 1. This LCS ordered heavy on the early VEI titles, but they also did the same for DC 52, Marvel Now, etc. I saw that Valiant TPBs in Paris are priced at 5 euro. This was a price I saw at several comic shops (it is priced on the covers for that much), so I think this was some sort of promotional price. It looked like this was for the first TPBs for the various Valiant titles similar to the promotion they ran here in the states for the first TPBs.

I think Valiant is doing all they can to get these comics into readers hands. I think people are just going to have to realize VEI is not going to become a top 5 publisher for many years, if ever. The best chance they have now of becoming mainstream is getting a property made into a TV show or a movie. If we enjoy the titles and VEI's output, why does it matter if they are not a top publisher? They seem to be doing well enough to keep the doors open and there is nothing wrong with that IMHO.

Woah woah woah...lets pump the brakes on the logical arguments there buck-o. This is hardly the place for that. #doom

+1 for doom

[ilzuccone]

This is entirely annecdotal, but a LCS in Phoenix is finally blowing out the early VEI issues at $1.00 each. They have tons of X-O Manowar 1, Harbinger 1, and Archer and Armstrong 1. This LCS ordered heavy on the early VEI titles, but they also did the same for DC 52, Marvel Now, etc. I saw that Valiant TPBs in Paris are priced at 5 euro. This was a price I saw at several comic shops (it is priced on the covers for that much), so I think this was some sort of promotional price. It looked like this was for the first TPBs for the various Valiant titles similar to the promotion they ran here in the states for the first TPBs.

I think Valiant is doing all they can to get these comics into readers hands. I think people are just going to have to realize VEI is not going to become a top 5 publisher for many years, if ever. The best chance they have now of becoming mainstream is getting a property made into a TV show or a movie. If we enjoy the titles and VEI's output, why does it matter if they are not a top publisher? They seem to be doing well enough to keep the doors open and there is nothing wrong with that IMHO.

I think movies etc have always been vei's goal.

[lorddunlow]

This is entirely annecdotal, but a LCS in Phoenix is finally blowing out the early VEI issues at $1.00 each. They have tons of X-O Manowar 1, Harbinger 1, and Archer and Armstrong 1. This LCS ordered heavy on the early VEI titles, but they also did the same for DC 52, Marvel Now, etc. I saw that Valiant TPBs in Paris are priced at 5 euro. This was a price I saw at several comic shops (it is priced on the covers for that much), so I think this was some sort of promotional price. It looked like this was for the first TPBs for the various Valiant titles similar to the promotion they ran here in the states for the first TPBs.

I think Valiant is doing all they can to get these comics into readers hands. I think people are just going to have to realize VEI is not going to become a top 5 publisher for many years, if ever. The best chance they have now of becoming mainstream is getting a property made into a TV show or a movie. If we enjoy the titles and VEI's output, why does it matter if they are not a top publisher? They seem to be doing well enough to keep the doors open and there is nothing wrong with that IMHO.

Woah woah woah...lets pump the brakes on the logical arguments there buck-o. This is hardly the place for that. #doom

+1

I say we burn him! Get the torches and pitchforks!

[Tim]

They seem to be doing well enough to keep the doors open and there is nothing wrong with that IMHO.

Well, IMHO, I don't feel too good about a company that is juuuuuuust profitable enough to keep the doors open. Not a lot of or security in that business strategy. I hope Divinity and Imperium hit big.

[rkjock1]

They seem to be doing well enough to keep the doors open and there is nothing wrong with that IMHO.

Well, IMHO, I don't feel too good about a company that is juuuuuuust profitable enough to keep the doors open. Not a lot of or security in that business strategy. I hope Divinity and Imperium hit big.

It's an incredible stretch to characterize VEI as being JUUUUST profitable enough. They have stated many times that their sales are above projections, they have hired new staff this year, a movie is actively in the works and action figures are being solicited/sold. Those are not the hallmarks of a company just keeping ahead of its creditors.

VEI is doing fine. They have multiple revenue streams, of which only one, print publishing is reflected in these numbers. They have a really high quality product in today's market and a really dedicated group of fans. I'll start to worrying when they halve the number of titles or do a promotion called Birthquake. Between now and then, I'll just enjoy the ride.

[bygranddesign]

They seem to be doing well enough to keep the doors open and there is nothing wrong with that IMHO.

Well, IMHO, I don't feel too good about a company that is juuuuuuust profitable enough to keep the doors open. Not a lot of or security in that business strategy. I hope Divinity and Imperium hit big.

It's an incredible stretch to characterize VEI as being JUUUUST profitable enough. They have stated many times that their sales are above projections, they have hired new staff this year, a movie is actively in the works and action figures are being solicited/sold. Those are not the hallmarks of a company just keeping ahead of its creditors.

VEI is doing fine. They have multiple revenue streams, of which only one, print publishing is reflected in these numbers. They have a really high quality product in today's market and a really dedicated group of fans. I'll start to worrying when they halve the number of titles or do a promotion called Birthquake. Between now and then, I'll just enjoy the ride.

+1

[Thomas]

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page ... e&id=56970" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Here is some more info on the sales.

[Keith]

215 Valiant Universe Handbook 11,311
216 X-O Manowar #0 11,188
249 Q2: The Return of Quantum and Woody #1 8,266
275 Unity #0 7,001
280 Archer & Armstrong #25 6,794
296 Armor Hunters Aftermath 6,412

6 titles on the whole list, and one of them is a reprint? No Delinquents, Harbinger, or Bloodshot?

[rjrjr]

Numbers are out:

VU Handbook 2014 One Dollar Debut Ed 11,311
X-O Manowar 0 11,188
Q2: The Return of Quantum & Woody 1 8,226
Unity 0 7,001
Archer & Armstrong 25 6,794
Armor Hunters Aftermath 1 6,412

No doubt the other titles (Death-Defying Dr. Mirage 2, Delinquents 3, Harbinger: Omegas 3) all fell outside of the top 300 which is why there are no numbers for them. Not surprising to me, these are all part of announced mini-series.

[rjrjr]

215 Valiant Universe Handbook 11,311
216 X-O Manowar #0 11,188
249 Q2: The Return of Quantum and Woody #1 8,266
275 Unity #0 7,001
280 Archer & Armstrong #25 6,794
296 Armor Hunters Aftermath 6,412

6 titles on the whole list, and one of them is a reprint? No Delinquents, Harbinger, or Bloodshot?

I think the 3 mini-series (Dr. Mirage, Harbinger: Omegas, and Delinquents) did not make the top 300. Was there a Bloodshot in October?

[Keith]

215 Valiant Universe Handbook 11,311
216 X-O Manowar #0 11,188
249 Q2: The Return of Quantum and Woody #1 8,266
275 Unity #0 7,001
280 Archer & Armstrong #25 6,794
296 Armor Hunters Aftermath 6,412

6 titles on the whole list, and one of them is a reprint? No Delinquents, Harbinger, or Bloodshot?

I think the 3 mini-series (Dr. Mirage, Harbinger: Omegas, and Delinquents) did not make the top 300. Was there a Bloodshot in October?

Yeah, there was a Bloodshot #24. And thanks for the Dr. Mirage catch... knew there was one I was forgetting.

I'm still of the opinion that Valiant is doing fine. As much as the Diamond numbers represent the largest chunk of the market (I assume?), we also know that digital and foreign markets are not included here.

Regardless, I'm kinda thinking this experiment with the mini-series to keep the line agile hasn't panned out. Can we say that the typical LCS (not you Ed, obviously) does not have the attention span to keep up with a rotating lineup?

[FormerReader]

215 Valiant Universe Handbook 11,311
216 X-O Manowar #0 11,188
249 Q2: The Return of Quantum and Woody #1 8,266
275 Unity #0 7,001
280 Archer & Armstrong #25 6,794
296 Armor Hunters Aftermath 6,412

6 titles on the whole list, and one of them is a reprint? No Delinquents, Harbinger, or Bloodshot?

I think the 3 mini-series (Dr. Mirage, Harbinger: Omegas, and Delinquents) did not make the top 300. Was there a Bloodshot in October?

Yeah, there was a Bloodshot #24. And thanks for the Dr. Mirage catch... knew there was one I was forgetting.

I'm still of the opinion that Valiant is doing fine. As much as the Diamond numbers represent the largest chunk of the market (I assume?), we also know that digital and foreign markets are not included here.

Regardless, I'm kinda thinking this experiment with the mini-series to keep the line agile hasn't panned out. Can we say that the typical LCS (not you Ed, obviously) does not have the attention span to keep up with a rotating lineup?

I buy everything Valiant puts out and I have to tell my LCS everytime there is a "new" title. I have now missed two books because I can't keep track of what titles I've told him to add. I wasn't a vocal opponent of the minis before, but I am now. I understand I am only one reader, but if I'm having this trouble I would think there are others having the same issue.

[ilzuccone]

i imagine the folks and VEI can't wait for the sales discussion thread each month.

[rkjock1]

i imagine the folks and VEI can't wait for the sales discussion thread each month.

[p-s manowar]

I know it sucks but marvel & dc own the comic market with image right behind them we weren't see valiant nowhere near the top 5 (which drives my crazy)for sometime. We valiant fans need to keep our chin up and keep spreading the word about these awesome books with time it will get out there. Think it would be wise to have less mini series and more ongoing plus increase to at least 12 titles a month.

[p-s manowar]

Plus comic shop owner suck at ordering

[Tim]

Is there any way of ever really knowing the print runs on books that don't make the Top 300?

Also, Archer and Armstrong #25 and Unity #0 were pretty disappointing, but wow....X-O #0 kicked @$$. Q2 did better than I predicted (I predicticed it'd be VEI's worst selling first issue, but Dr. Mirage #1 only sold 7145 copies), but still pretty soft.

[bygranddesign]

I wonder what the story is with the Valiant Handbook .. I was not expecting to see that sell 11k. I'll take that as a good sign that a lot of LCS's stocked up on them to try and expose more people to Valiant.

I think the numbers overall are pretty good.

Pullbox and Incentives have huge influence in pushing sales numbers higher. X-O and Q2 did well this month because they had a ton of covers with the easily attainable 1:10 cover + higher incentive covers.

I personally bought at least 6 of the X-O covers ..

I haven't even read Q2 and I ended up buying 3 covers (regular, pullbox and 1:10).

Bloodshot, Omegas and Dr. Mirage - I bought 1 cover each for those titles. There was only 1 regular cover for those titles and only BS and Omegas had an incentive 1:20 variant that I guarantee you most LCS's didn't go for. My LCS didn't see it worth getting the 1:20. If there was a pullbox to go along with the regular it would have been worth it for most LCS's.

So i got 9 covers for those top 2 titles ... and only 3 covers for the other 3 titles. I'm sure i am not alone when it comes to this ... if most hardcore valiant fans had around the same ratio - thats a huge reason for the gap. Its not a reflection of what comic I love more - I enjoy Dr. Mirage and Omegas more than X-O and like I said I haven't even read Q2.

If Dr. Mirage had a pullbox and 1:10 cover - it probably would have cracked the top 300.

But I respect VEI for putting out only 1 cover for Dr. Mirage. I think it shows confidence. People have complained about too many incentives and pullbox ... and VEI heard those concerns. But you have to expect the sales numbers to suffer a bit.

[krylox]

well, i think even the most positive and optimistic has to admit that the vei 2014 mini-series/armor hunters initiative wasn't very successful in getting new readers on board. let's hope for a better effort in 2015 with the new ongoings.
it could also help to pull some big name(s) on the creative side. as much as i adore lemire, he's not the one bringing loads of (superhero-)fans with him. a type a creator like snyder/bendis/bkv/gillen/remender... on a series, even a mini series, would make shop owners
order the book on a whole different level.
or they buy the gold key characters off and make this into a really meaningful event.

i know, this is very wishful thinking and super-hard to pull off. just saying, this would be the kind of new energy the publisher needs for it's fourth publishing year.

[jeremycoe]

I wonder what the story is with the Valiant Handbook .. I was not expecting to see that sell 11k. I'll take that as a good sign that a lot of LCS's stocked up on them to try and expose more people to Valiant.

I'm pretty sure I noticed on the solicitations for the Handbook that Valiant was giving retailers 2 copies for every 1 ordered. I wonder if most retailers didn't pay attention to that and just ordered what they were planning on needing and receiving twice that amount.

[jkingman]

I wonder what the story is with the Valiant Handbook .. I was not expecting to see that sell 11k. I'll take that as a good sign that a lot of LCS's stocked up on them to try and expose more people to Valiant.

I'm pretty sure I noticed on the solicitations for the Handbook that Valiant was giving retailers 2 copies for every 1 ordered. I wonder if most retailers didn't pay attention to that and just ordered what they were planning on needing and receiving twice that amount.

I think I read that for each $1 issue ordered, retailers got a free $1 Valiant Handbook

[jeremycoe]

I wonder what the story is with the Valiant Handbook .. I was not expecting to see that sell 11k. I'll take that as a good sign that a lot of LCS's stocked up on them to try and expose more people to Valiant.

I'm pretty sure I noticed on the solicitations for the Handbook that Valiant was giving retailers 2 copies for every 1 ordered. I wonder if most retailers didn't pay attention to that and just ordered what they were planning on needing and receiving twice that amount.

I think I read that for each $1 issue ordered, retailers got a free $1 Valiant Handbook

Here's the quote from the solicitations:

*RETAILER INCENTIVE: FOR EACH ONE DOLLAR DEBUT ORDERED, RECEIVE ONE COPY OF THE ONE DOLLAR DEBUT: VALIANT HANDBOOK 2014 FREE

If all those free books are counted in the sales charts, that would definitely explain the high numbers.

[Bl00dsh0t]

215 Valiant Universe Handbook 11,311
216 X-O Manowar #0 11,188
249 Q2: The Return of Quantum and Woody #1 8,266
275 Unity #0 7,001
280 Archer & Armstrong #25 6,794
296 Armor Hunters Aftermath 6,412

6 titles on the whole list, and one of them is a reprint? No Delinquents, Harbinger, or Bloodshot?

I think the 3 mini-series (Dr. Mirage, Harbinger: Omegas, and Delinquents) did not make the top 300. Was there a Bloodshot in October?

Yeah, there was a Bloodshot #24. And thanks for the Dr. Mirage catch... knew there was one I was forgetting.

I'm still of the opinion that Valiant is doing fine. As much as the Diamond numbers represent the largest chunk of the market (I assume?), we also know that digital and foreign markets are not included here.

Regardless, I'm kinda thinking this experiment with the mini-series to keep the line agile hasn't panned out. Can we say that the typical LCS (not you Ed, obviously) does not have the attention span to keep up with a rotating lineup?

Re: the mini's, thats true of my LCS. Valiant doesn't have a huge following in Australia (if my LCS is anything to go by) so they tend to stick with the ongoing titles rather than order mini's no one has asked for in their monthly orders (apart from me). Shame really cos Valiant is putting out some great material.

[ShadowTuga]

215 Valiant Universe Handbook 11,311
216 X-O Manowar #0 11,188
249 Q2: The Return of Quantum and Woody #1 8,266
275 Unity #0 7,001
280 Archer & Armstrong #25 6,794
296 Armor Hunters Aftermath 6,412

6 titles on the whole list, and one of them is a reprint? No Delinquents, Harbinger, or Bloodshot?

I think the 3 mini-series (Dr. Mirage, Harbinger: Omegas, and Delinquents) did not make the top 300. Was there a Bloodshot in October?

Yeah, there was a Bloodshot #24. And thanks for the Dr. Mirage catch... knew there was one I was forgetting.

I'm still of the opinion that Valiant is doing fine. As much as the Diamond numbers represent the largest chunk of the market (I assume?), we also know that digital and foreign markets are not included here.

Regardless, I'm kinda thinking this experiment with the mini-series to keep the line agile hasn't panned out. Can we say that the typical LCS (not you Ed, obviously) does not have the attention span to keep up with a rotating lineup?

I buy everything Valiant puts out and I have to tell my LCS everytime there is a "new" title. I have now missed two books because I can't keep track of what titles I've told him to add. I wasn't a vocal opponent of the minis before, but I am now. I understand I am only one reader, but if I'm having this trouble I would think there are others having the same issue.

You're not alone. This was a "confusing" year. As much as I hate to say it, VEI kinda made a mistake, in my opinion. I too, am tired of the minis format, if it brought MORE people to read the books i'd be more supportive, but these numbers while not being "the doom that came to NY" don't look well, taking into account the previous months- the lack of support for the minis, seems to have now expanded to the ongoings. I'm talking about Bloodshot #24 not even making top 300.

As a side note: my LCS does not have any VEI books on the shelves as of now (last 2 months). IDW and other small publishers are in what used to be the Valiant corner of the store (not much, but it was a shelf). I haven't asked the owner about it, will try to get his opinion next month or so. I think it was a pain to order VALIANT in 2014, but that's me.
It's a shame, lots of people are missing some awesome comics.

[StarBrand]

I once heard a business professor say "business is about surviving until you get lucky." Simplified, but with a lot of truth in it. I've never forgotten it.