September 2014 Sales Discussion

[Captain Craig]

I can only hope that things are healthy enough for VEI.
The products are too great to not be in the hands of readers and adored by a larger audience.

[StarBrand]

wasn't it stated once that Valiants literally doing better than they originally expected.

I think so.

But once again, it seems to me that the obvious point is simple: VEI surely cannot grow significantly while they self-impose a 9 books per month limit, unless they get a breakout hit. So they will bounce around a narrow range in their numbers (accepting those numbers are estimates, right?).

Add in that the minis over ongoings strategy *may* offer a jump-off point in some instances, but that is highly debatable of course.

Many businesses put themselves out of business by expanding too much. They may be using the best strategy, for now.

[rjrjr]

wasn't it stated once that Valiants literally doing better than they originally expected.

I think so.

But once again, it seems to me that the obvious point is simple: VEI surely cannot grow significantly while they self-impose a 9 books per month limit, unless they get a breakout hit. So they will bounce around a narrow range in their numbers (accepting those numbers are estimates, right?).

Add in that the minis over ongoings strategy *may* offer a jump-off point in some instances, but that is highly debatable of course.

Many businesses put themselves out of business by expanding too much. They may be using the best strategy, for now.

Suspending the ongoing titles for the Armor Hunters mini-series was a misstep IMHO. If they had included the Armor Hunters crossovers inside the regular titles, I think these numbers would be better. Going the mini-series route is not a good idea in today's market. Other publishers avoid even using the name "mini-series" (*ahem* Image) because they know that means reduced sales. The key now is they learn from this mistake.

From today's announcements from Valiant, it looks like they see the writing on the wall and are correcting this. With a new number 1 every month for 6 months in 2015, they should be able to stop the bleeding. Some of the titles sound promising. They need more X-O Manowar than Dr. Mirage which has abysmal numbers for a first issue. It looks like a Solar like character is being introduced into the Valiant universe in the form of a Russian too.

[Keith]

I'm wondering if there are other reasons for the drop in numbers this past month. Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't DC pretty much swamped the market with their multiple weekly series and one shots for Future's End? I would think it fairly reasonable that dollars normally floated Valiant's way were directed towards these numerous (and potentially easier to sell) books.

Thoughts?

[StarBrand]

It wouldn't be the first time one of the big two has flooded the market with product merely to harm the smaller publishers.

[rjrjr]

I'm wondering if there are other reasons for the drop in numbers this past month. Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't DC pretty much swamped the market with their multiple weekly series and one shots for Future's End? I would think it fairly reasonable that dollars normally floated Valiant's way were directed towards these numerous (and potentially easier to sell) books.

Thoughts?

These Valiant titles are just continuing the trajectory they have been on though, so I doubt the DC one shots had too much of an impact. Armor Hunters was not the success we would have hoped for and I don't think anyone is too surprised that Dr. Mirage lauched with low numbers.

Honestly, Marvel and DC have been doing these events for years and that isn't about to change.

[rjrjr]

It wouldn't be the first time one of the big two has flooded the market with product merely to harm the smaller publishers.

I'll bet DC's intent was to take the market in September from Marvel. Smart move too as it worked again this year.

[Captain Craig]

DC and Marvel are only competing w/each other for slots #1 & #2.
I don't for an instant think either company is concerned with anyone else in the next 5 slots.
It's a three tier game.
I think Image and Dark Horse then are the next tier.
Then everyone else.

VALIANT needs to stay competitive and if their current strategy of 9 titles is proving it allows that good. If not then a re-evaluation is in order and they will know when that time comes, if it comes. I don't think series of mini-series with constant renumberings and #1 issues really helps in the long run. At least not gain long term new readers. After awhile there are variety of _______#1's where in reality each mini is an extension of the last so where do I really start if I'm a curious new reader who might become a faithful reader?

[Keith]

The lenticular covers and the standard versions combined to give DC 115 entries in the Top 300 comics list. All those high-volume entries combined to push many publishers out of the Top 300 entirely; only nine publishers put more than one title onto the list.

I'll argue it again... Valiant would have done better this month, numbers wise, if it weren't for DC flooding the market.

[Tim]

It's a shame a book as good as Omegas didn't move more.

[BugsySig]

It's a shame a book as good as Omegas didn't move more.

Definitely got lost in the Armor Hunters shuffle. It almost would have been better to shelve it during the crossover and release it later to lead directly into Imperium.

[Captain Craig]

It's a shame a book as good as Omegas didn't move more.

Definitely got lost in the Armor Hunters shuffle. It almost would have been better to shelve it during the crossover and release it later to lead directly into Imperium.

+1

[jmatt]

DC and Marvel are only competing w/each other for slots #1 & #2.
I don't for an instant think either company is concerned with anyone else in the next 5 slots.
It's a three tier game.
I think Image and Dark Horse then are the next tier.
Then everyone else.

VALIANT needs to stay competitive and if their current strategy of 9 titles is proving it allows that good. If not then a re-evaluation is in order and they will know when that time comes, if it comes. I don't think series of mini-series with constant renumberings and #1 issues really helps in the long run. At least not gain long term new readers. After awhile there are variety of _______#1's where in reality each mini is an extension of the last so where do I really start if I'm a curious new reader who might become a faithful reader?

I have to agree with this. I am ambivalent about the minis and all of the #1 jumping on stuff. If the company thinks it works, who am I to argue? But in a comic book industry that is constantly rebooting, they could stand apart by demonstrating permanence with ongoing issue numbers instead of a series of mini-series.

[Aomalle27]

Some things to consider; 1 Valiant retails for $3.99 while most market comics go for $2.99
That's roughly 34% more $$$) per issue So putting that into the equation you have to multiply
VEI's units by 1.334 to get an approximate "market units" number ( ie $ equivalent to the rest of the market) Here's what they should look like

cbr has the numbers. and they don't look too nice...

227 X-O Manowar #29 8,566
244 Unity #11 7,602
263 Death Defying Doctor Mirage #1 7,154
273 Delinquents #2 6,964
280 Armor Hunters: Bloodshot #3 6,681
281 Armor Hunters: Harbinger #3 6,681
297 Harbinger: Omegas #2 6,373

Xo = 11,427 market units
Unity= 10,141
Dr Mirage= 9543
Delinquents= 9290
AH BS= 8912
AH Har= 8912
Harby Omegas= 8502

You gotta then plug those numbers into the relevant
slots for Sales Rankings. I believe That would put all VEI
titles in the top 227 for sales, not so doom and gloom as
before

[Tim]

Some things to consider; 1 Valiant retails for $3.99 while most market comics go for $2.99
That's roughly 34% more $$$) per issue So putting that into the equation you have to multiply
VEI's units by 1.334 to get an approximate "market units" number ( ie $ equivalent to the rest of the market) Here's what they should look like

cbr has the numbers. and they don't look too nice...

227 X-O Manowar #29 8,566
244 Unity #11 7,602
263 Death Defying Doctor Mirage #1 7,154
273 Delinquents #2 6,964
280 Armor Hunters: Bloodshot #3 6,681
281 Armor Hunters: Harbinger #3 6,681
297 Harbinger: Omegas #2 6,373

Xo = 11,427 market units
Unity= 10,141
Dr Mirage= 9543
Delinquents= 9290
AH BS= 8912
AH Har= 8912
Harby Omegas= 8502

You gotta then plug those numbers into the relevant
slots for Sales Rankings. I believe That would put all VEI
titles in the top 227 for sales, not so doom and gloom as
before

Most market comics do not go for $2.99.

[BugsySig]

Some things to consider; 1 Valiant retails for $3.99 while most market comics go for $2.99
That's roughly 34% more $$$) per issue So putting that into the equation you have to multiply
VEI's units by 1.334 to get an approximate "market units" number ( ie $ equivalent to the rest of the market) Here's what they should look like

cbr has the numbers. and they don't look too nice...

227 X-O Manowar #29 8,566
244 Unity #11 7,602
263 Death Defying Doctor Mirage #1 7,154
273 Delinquents #2 6,964
280 Armor Hunters: Bloodshot #3 6,681
281 Armor Hunters: Harbinger #3 6,681
297 Harbinger: Omegas #2 6,373

Xo = 11,427 market units
Unity= 10,141
Dr Mirage= 9543
Delinquents= 9290
AH BS= 8912
AH Har= 8912
Harby Omegas= 8502

You gotta then plug those numbers into the relevant
slots for Sales Rankings. I believe That would put all VEI
titles in the top 227 for sales, not so doom and gloom as
before

Most market comics do not go for $2.99.

Diamond offers a Market Share in Dollars chart, which is elaborated on at Comichron.com:

Share of Overall Dollars
DC
36.58%
Marvel
32.04%
Image
7.49%
IDW
4.52%
Dark Horse
4.11%
Boom
2.34%
Dynamite
2.18%
Eaglemoss
1.29%
Random House
1.15%
Viz
0.96%
Avatar
0.95%
Valiant
0.66%
Oni
0.64%
Zenescope
0.59%
Archie
0.45%
Fantagraphics
0.33%
Titan
0.33%
St. Martins
0.30%
Humanoids
0.27%
Hachette
0.24%
Other
2.59%

With total North American sales in the month around $58 million, that's about $370,000 in sales for VALIANT. Estimate about half of that is actual profit and add international, digital, reorders, second prints, licenses and merchandise sales, convention sales, etc. and VEI is likely making around 1/4 million dollars in profit each month. Of course we don't know their operating costs, but that's not a bad number in the slightest. Ask any small business owner and I bet they'd love to make that much money.

Also from Comichron:
Average cost of comics in the Top 300: $3.77
Average cost of comics in the Top 300, weighted by orders: $3.95
Average cost of comics in the Top 25: $4.15
Median cost of comics in the Top 300: $3.99
Most common cost of comics in the Top 300: $3.99

$3.99 is the standard, not the exception anymore.

[ilzuccone]

Some things to consider; 1 Valiant retails for $3.99 while most market comics go for $2.99
That's roughly 34% more $$$) per issue So putting that into the equation you have to multiply
VEI's units by 1.334 to get an approximate "market units" number ( ie $ equivalent to the rest of the market) Here's what they should look like

cbr has the numbers. and they don't look too nice...

227 X-O Manowar #29 8,566
244 Unity #11 7,602
263 Death Defying Doctor Mirage #1 7,154
273 Delinquents #2 6,964
280 Armor Hunters: Bloodshot #3 6,681
281 Armor Hunters: Harbinger #3 6,681
297 Harbinger: Omegas #2 6,373

Xo = 11,427 market units
Unity= 10,141
Dr Mirage= 9543
Delinquents= 9290
AH BS= 8912
AH Har= 8912
Harby Omegas= 8502

You gotta then plug those numbers into the relevant
slots for Sales Rankings. I believe That would put all VEI
titles in the top 227 for sales, not so doom and gloom as
before

Most market comics do not go for $2.99.

Diamond offers a Market Share in Dollars chart, which is elaborated on at Comichron.com:

Share of Overall Dollars
DC
36.58%
Marvel
32.04%
Image
7.49%
IDW
4.52%
Dark Horse
4.11%
Boom
2.34%
Dynamite
2.18%
Eaglemoss
1.29%
Random House
1.15%
Viz
0.96%
Avatar
0.95%
Valiant
0.66%
Oni
0.64%
Zenescope
0.59%
Archie
0.45%
Fantagraphics
0.33%
Titan
0.33%
St. Martins
0.30%
Humanoids
0.27%
Hachette
0.24%
Other
2.59%

With total North American sales in the month around $58 million, that's about $370,000 in sales for VALIANT. Estimate about half of that is actual profit and add international, digital, reorders, second prints, licenses and merchandise sales, convention sales, etc. and VEI is likely making around 1/4 million dollars in profit each month. Of course we don't know their operating costs, but that's not a bad number in the slightest. Ask any small business owner and I bet they'd love to make that much money.

Also from Comichron:
Average cost of comics in the Top 300: $3.77
Average cost of comics in the Top 300, weighted by orders: $3.95
Average cost of comics in the Top 25: $4.15
Median cost of comics in the Top 300: $3.99
Most common cost of comics in the Top 300: $3.99

$3.99 is the standard, not the exception anymore.

Some good info in there. Muchas gracias.

[Captain Craig]

What baffles me is how Dynamite with their delays and constant 1/2 assed attempts at lines manages a 2%+ share.

[lorddunlow]

What baffles me is how Dynamite with their delays and constant 1/2 assed attempts at lines manages a 2%+ share.

Shotgun approach.

[jeremycoe]

What baffles me is how Dynamite with their delays and constant 1/2 assed attempts at lines manages a 2%+ share.

Offering 35 or so books a month will do that for you.

[Captain Craig]

^^^^^
Good answer. Didn't realize they threw that much at the wall every month.

[jeremycoe]

Also, "Bad Girls" seem to be doing well for them.

[bygranddesign]

I think we will see a modest boost in October

X-O #0 I think will do pretty well - I know I bought 7 variants for it.
Unity #0 should mean an increase for Unity
A&A #25 should be a nice increase from #24
AH: Aftermath #1 ... I think should do an ok number 6-7K - probably better than AH #4
Delinquents #3 ... Dr. Mirage #2 ... Bloodshot #24 ... Omegas #3 - I expect a decent decrease from the previous issue (but hopefully not too bad)
Q2 is the big wild card - I'm not sure how well this title will do but I'm thinking 9K.
Q2 is essentially replacing AH: Harbinger #3 ... so I think that could be a significant boost.

So I think we will see an increase in 5 titles ... and decrease in 4 titles for October ... for a nice modest bump up in sales.

[BugsySig]

I think we will see a modest boost in October

X-O #0 I think will do pretty well - I know I bought 7 variants for it.
Unity #0 should mean an increase for Unity
A&A #25 should be a nice increase from #24
AH: Aftermath #1 ... I think should do an ok number 6-7K - probably better than AH #4
Delinquents #3 ... Dr. Mirage #2 ... Bloodshot #24 ... Omegas #3 - I expect a decent decrease from the previous issue (but hopefully not too bad)
Q2 is the big wild card - I'm not sure how well this title will do but I'm thinking 9K.
Q2 is essentially replacing AH: Harbinger #3 ... so I think that could be a significant boost.

So I think we will see an increase in 5 titles ... and decrease in 4 titles for October ... for a nice modest bump up in sales.

Q2 will sell out. Probably at or near 12k. Take your average VALIANT fan + your Q&W fans + your Classic Q&W fan + your Priest fans + a #1 issue boost and the issue will do well.

Not sure if I'll buy it, though. It might be the first VEI book I pass on.

[lorddunlow]

Not sure if I'll buy it, though. It might be the first VEI book I pass on.

+1