July 2014 Sales Discussion

[mateo107]

Probably means it's not in the Top 300. Q&W sold 6888 copies so I am guessing Q&W #12 sold less than that and it fell out of the Top 300.

I find it hard to believe that it dropped from 6,888 to less than 2,495 in one month...

[leonmallett]

Probably means it's not in the Top 300. Q&W sold 6888 copies so I am guessing Q&W #12 sold less than that and it fell out of the Top 300.

I find it hard to believe that it dropped from 6,888 to less than 2,495 in one month...

There are 160 books below #300 but above #461, but only around 33 are shown.

[iggy101us]

Title Breakdowns:

208 Armor Hunters #2 11,224
213 Rai #3 10,665
236 X-O Manowar #27 9138
245 Harbinger #25 8766
247 Unity #9 8485
264 AH: Harbinger #1 7518
271 AH: Bloodshot #1 7334
285 Archer & Armstrong #22 6883

162 Unity v2: Trapped By Webnet 868

Odd, they don't list Quantum & Woody #12 in the list, far as I could see. Wonder what happened there?

Probably means it's not in the Top 300. Q&W sold 6888 copies so I am guessing Q&W #12 sold less than that and it fell out of the Top 300.

Hmm.. They do list comics after the top 300 .. but it starts to skip numbers.

http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicss ... 14-07.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

They don't list the comics between 302-320 ... I bet you thats where Q&W ended up (probably between 6,000-6,500 sold).

Interesting. I thought it used to list only the Top 300. Yeah, you're probably right about Q&W being between 302-320. I wonder why it's incomplete after the Top 300.

[BugsySig]

So two things...

1) Comichron doesn't get the actual number of issues sold from Diamond. Diamond doesn't release that information. What they do release is an "indexed" number...

From Comichron:

Diamond publishes "indexed" sales figures, in which it keys orders for all comics it lists sales for to a single comic book (usually Batman), with one “order index point” being equal to 1% of that title’s orders. We use the actual Diamond final orders from titles accounting for more than 25% of Diamond’s Top 300 to approximate what an order index point equals each month. The result is applied to the Diamond charts to produce the estimates seen at right.

If an indexed number is not given for an issue for whatever reason, then they can't estimate it. What they show outside the top 300 is usually what they are able to estimate without that Diamond index based on number of books released by a publisher, publisher sales, etc. That's why the list is incomplete after 300.

2) This was an extremely big month for sales across the board, which is why the rankings are as low as they are. In other months, the sales of Armor Hunters #2 and Rai #3 may have been in the top 200 or even top 150. Q&W #12 obviously had a decrease from the previous month and slipped out of the "Top 300" but was still likely in the 6500 range, which in other month would have been listed.

[grendeljd]

The AH: Harbinger #1 and AH: Bloodshot #1 numbers are disappointing, IMO.

I think the mini-series strategy (#1 initiative) is an ok strategy ... but I think it works better for Marvell and DC where the Fan Boy Zombies will gobble them up no matter what.

Some Hardcore Valiant fans, casual Valiant fans and potential fans ... might see it as a bit of a marketing ploy and get turned off.

I was talking about this with the owner of my LCS recently, he said a few of his subs treated it like a good jumping off point. They didn't seem to realize that the line wide range of titles wasn't increasing with all the upcoming AH tie-in minis either (this was when he agreed to go for the pullbox previews deal via Atom! & Diamond to seed in all his customer files to help promote VEI better).

For myself ... i'd rather put my money behind a long term ongoing series than the constant reboots and mini's. Eventually you get hype fatigue... building a long term legacy with an ongoing series can potentially draw in those potential fans that are sitting on the sidelines because they will be curious about what they have been missing and with TPB and Hard covers .. its easier than ever for a fan who is 30+ issues behind to get into a long running title.

+1 - I'm always a bigger fan of keeping long term numbering intact, but I understand that doesn't seem to be helping monthly sales in a lot of cases. Inbred rebooting & constant re-numbering isn't a good long term solution, but IMO VEI is doing a good job trying to find a marketing plan that fits between each extreme.

[p-s manowar]

So the 0.89% is not correct, since it is missing the quantum & woody plus the 2nd printing armor hunters, rai, etc. ..

[leonmallett]

So the 0.89% is not correct, since it is missing the quantum & woody plus the 2nd printing armor hunters, rai, etc. ..

The same argument could be made of other publishers to a greater or lesser extent.

Based on those estimates, even *if* Q&W is excluded, and *if* Q&W estimated sales was one issue less than the 302nd book (therefore 6593 copies), that would be an adjustment of 0.08% by my calculation, and not much of an adjustment at all.

[leonmallett]

If VEI are happy with the sales, and their share of the market, then that is the main thing.

I say again though, I can only really see them growing as a comic book publisher if they shed the self-imposed limit of 9 titles. Or they get a cross media hit, of course.

[rjrjr]

The AH: Harbinger #1 and AH: Bloodshot #1 numbers are disappointing, IMO.

I think the mini-series strategy (#1 initiative) is an ok strategy ... but I think it works better for Marvell and DC where the Fan Boy Zombies will gobble them up no matter what.

Some Hardcore Valiant fans, casual Valiant fans and potential fans ... might see it as a bit of a marketing ploy and get turned off.

For myself ... i'd rather put my money behind a long term ongoing series than the constant reboots and mini's. Eventually you get hype fatigue... building a long term legacy with an ongoing series can potentially draw in those potential fans that are sitting on the sidelines because they will be curious about what they have been missing and with TPB and Hard covers .. its easier than ever for a fan who is 30+ issues behind to get into a long running title.

I know VEI will try to be balanced ... I hope they swing the emphasis towards more ongoing/expanding the line in 2015

Mini-series don't sell well for any publisher for the most part even Marvel and DC. Marvel and DC release mini-series to crowd out other publishers on the stands. In fact, many publishers who were doing the "series of mini-series" moved to publishing ongoing series for many of those titles. (Examples: Star Trek at IDW, Hellboy at Dark Horse, etc.) If a new series is announce as a mini-series at Image, that is usually a kiss of death for that title.

I think Valiant's first attempt at a line wide crossover has been met mostly with silence by the comic community. It will be interesting to see what they do to try and get attention. At this point, I don't think just publishing good comics is going to cut it in today's climate. Unfortunately, since every comic seems to be optioned for a movie or TV series these days, it's going to take an actual movie or TV series to generate some longer lasting buzz.

[FormerReader]

I think Valiant's first attempt at a line wide crossover has been met mostly with silence by the comic community. It will be interesting to see what they do to try and get attention. At this point, I don't think just publishing good comics is going to cut it in today's climate. Unfortunately, since every comic seems to be optioned for a movie or TV series these days, it's going to take an actual movie or TV series to generate some longer lasting buzz.

Bsaed on the numbers you may be right. I thought we would start to see some uptick in the numbers based off of Armor Hunters. I think most Valiant books have been consistently good, but the sales numbers don't reflect that. It seems there are too many good books out there nowadays. I agree with leonmallet that they need to slowly begin extending the line when they can do so without losing direction of the company like Valiant originally did.

Having said all of that. Valiant may be ok with the numbers and their longterm plan is based on other sources of income. I suppose we will wait and see and enjoy where the ride takes us.

[greg]

So the 0.89% is not correct, since it is missing the quantum & woody plus the 2nd printing armor hunters, rai, etc. ..

The same argument could be made of other publishers to a greater or lesser extent.

Based on those estimates, even *if* Q&W is excluded, and *if* Q&W estimated sales was one issue less than the 302nd book (therefore 6593 copies), that would be an adjustment of 0.08% by my calculation, and not much of an adjustment at all.

No, the 0.89% represents the total units sold in the industry, including all books, not just the Top 300.

It's very common for other publishers to have books missing from the Top 300...
Dark Horse released 39 comics in July, and had 16 in the Top 300.
Dynamite released 40 comics in July, and had 13 in the Top 300.
Valiant released 9 comics in July, and had 8 in the Top 300.

We've been spoiled by having 100% in the Top 300... but other publishers usually have less than half... except for Marvel and DC... and Valiant.

July 2014 in terms of comics in the Top 300 vs. comics released:
Marvel (91 out of 93) = 98%
Valiant (8 out of 9) = 89%
DC (83 out of 97) = 86%
Image (36 out of 66) = 55%
IDW (23 out of 48) = 48%
Archie (7 out of 15) = 47%
Dark Horse (16 out of 39) = 41%
Zenescope (5 out of 14) = 36%
Dynamite (13 out of 40) = 33%
Boom (9 out of 29) = 31%

Every other month of Valiant's past two years, this has been 100%.

Numbers above come from the industry stats on the left side of the page:
http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicss ... 14-07.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[RogueJedi74]

If VEI are happy with the sales, and their share of the market, then that is the main thing.

Agreed. If the company is able to stay afloat with 9 books a month and can keep putting out quality, then I am happy.

[mateo107]

I got the impression that Armor Hunters #2 was severely under-ordered, I had to go to 4 stores before I finally tracked down a copy. and I should point out it's getting a second printing.

[Comichron]

Greg had passed along the question about the charts. The reason that Comichron only publishes scattered entries from below 300th place is because those come from a different chart that Diamond releases, the Small Publisher Top 50. This consists of the best-sellers from publishers whose market shares are regularly below 1% (I believe that is the cutofff) and every month, at least some of the entries on the list fall outside the Top 300. But since they provide what the ranking WOULD be if they were included, we're able to list them at the end.

Valiant has, as has been mentioned above, been getting most of its titles to chart -- but a crazy number of books was released in July -- and Diamond also shifted from publishing the Top 400 to the Top 300. So the odds of a publisher's entire line being represented are long.

[leonmallett]

Greg had passed along the question about the charts. The reason that Comichron only publishes scattered entries from below 300th place is because those come from a different chart that Diamond releases, the Small Publisher Top 50. This consists of the best-sellers from publishers whose market shares are regularly below 1% (I believe that is the cutofff) and every month, at least some of the entries on the list fall outside the Top 300. But since they provide what the ranking WOULD be if they were included, we're able to list them at the end.

Valiant has, as has been mentioned above, been getting most of its titles to chart -- but a crazy number of books was released in July -- and Diamond also shifted from publishing the Top 400 to the Top 300. So the odds of a publisher's entire line being represented are long.

Welcome Comichron.

[lorddunlow]

Whoa. Comichron is sentient? And here I was thinking Google was the origin of Skynet. Kill it!

[greg]

Greg had passed along the question about the charts. The reason that Comichron only publishes scattered entries from below 300th place is because those come from a different chart that Diamond releases, the Small Publisher Top 50. This consists of the best-sellers from publishers whose market shares are regularly below 1% (I believe that is the cutofff) and every month, at least some of the entries on the list fall outside the Top 300. But since they provide what the ranking WOULD be if they were included, we're able to list them at the end.

Valiant has, as has been mentioned above, been getting most of its titles to chart -- but a crazy number of books was released in July -- and Diamond also shifted from publishing the Top 400 to the Top 300. So the odds of a publisher's entire line being represented are long.

Welcome to our home... and the latest monthly Henny Penny thread.

[leonmallett]

Whoa. Comichron is sentient? And here I was thinking Google was the origin of Skynet. Kill it!

[nscc]

Greg had passed along the question about the charts. The reason that Comichron only publishes scattered entries from below 300th place is because those come from a different chart that Diamond releases, the Small Publisher Top 50. This consists of the best-sellers from publishers whose market shares are regularly below 1% (I believe that is the cutofff) and every month, at least some of the entries on the list fall outside the Top 300. But since they provide what the ranking WOULD be if they were included, we're able to list them at the end.

Valiant has, as has been mentioned above, been getting most of its titles to chart -- but a crazy number of books was released in July -- and Diamond also shifted from publishing the Top 400 to the Top 300. So the odds of a publisher's entire line being represented are long.

Thanks for the explanation comichron (if that is your real name!)

Appreciate your site and all the info you post. Has made threads like these possible.

And welcome to our little corner of the internet, stay away from any dunlows (lord/canadian or otherwise) and you should be fine.

[greg]

Comichron won't mention it because it's off-topic, but I CAN

If you're interested in some of comichron's other work... check out: http://www.farawaypress.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

He's got a few things to say about a little universe called Star Wars...

[nscc]

Comichron won't mention it because it's off-topic, but I CAN

If you're interested in some of comichron's other work... check out: http://www.farawaypress.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

He's got a few things to say about a little universe called Star Wars...

It is pretty common to be off-topic here

Thanks for the link, I'll check it out later on.

[lorddunlow]

Comichron won't mention it because it's off-topic, but I CAN

If you're interested in some of comichron's other work... check out: http://www.farawaypress.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

He's got a few things to say about a little universe called Star Wars...

It is pretty common to be off-topic here

Thanks for the link, I'll check it out later on.

I still posit that the goal is to post as little on-topic chatter as possible.

[BugsySig]

Greg had passed along the question about the charts. The reason that Comichron only publishes scattered entries from below 300th place is because those come from a different chart that Diamond releases, the Small Publisher Top 50. This consists of the best-sellers from publishers whose market shares are regularly below 1% (I believe that is the cutofff) and every month, at least some of the entries on the list fall outside the Top 300. But since they provide what the ranking WOULD be if they were included, we're able to list them at the end.

Valiant has, as has been mentioned above, been getting most of its titles to chart -- but a crazy number of books was released in July -- and Diamond also shifted from publishing the Top 400 to the Top 300. So the odds of a publisher's entire line being represented are long.

Welcome! Your site is tha bomb!

[400yrs]

No, the 0.89% represents the total units sold in the industry, including all books, not just the Top 300.

It's very common for other publishers to have books missing from the Top 300...
Dark Horse released 39 comics in July, and had 16 in the Top 300.
Dynamite released 40 comics in July, and had 13 in the Top 300.
Valiant released 9 comics in July, and had 8 in the Top 300.

We've been spoiled by having 100% in the Top 300... but other publishers usually have less than half... except for Marvel and DC... and Valiant.

July 2014 in terms of comics in the Top 300 vs. comics released:
Marvel (91 out of 93) = 98%
Valiant (8 out of 9) = 89%
DC (83 out of 97) = 86%
Image (36 out of 66) = 55%
IDW (23 out of 48) = 48%
Archie (7 out of 15) = 47%
Dark Horse (16 out of 39) = 41%
Zenescope (5 out of 14) = 36%
Dynamite (13 out of 40) = 33%
Boom (9 out of 29) = 31%

Every other month of Valiant's past two years, this has been 100%.

Numbers above come from the industry stats on the left side of the page:
http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicss ... 14-07.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If there ever comes a day when Greg can't take numbers and make them look good, we should all worry.

[FormerReader]

If there ever comes a day when Greg can't take numbers and make them look good, we should all worry.