Harbinger Death

[Shadowman99]

Definitely Faith. I think the cover of #25 with the angel wings on the skeleton are a tell. Faith flies and she's the only (mostly) pure of the bunch.

But a skeleton with wings is pretty generic symbology for 'death' though really, isn't it? Decay and angels and such...

[lorddunlow]

Definitely Faith. I think the cover of #25 with the angel wings on the skeleton are a tell. Faith flies and she's the only (mostly) pure of the bunch.

But a skeleton with wings is pretty generic symbology for 'death' though really, isn't it? Decay and angels and such...

It is, but I'm going to assume they meant it as a big hint that I won the bet.

[kjjohanson]

Definitely Faith. I think the cover of #25 with the angel wings on the skeleton are a tell. Faith flies and she's the only (mostly) pure of the bunch.

That's a stretch, especially as she can fly without wings.

[kjjohanson]

Definitely Faith. I think the cover of #25 with the angel wings on the skeleton are a tell. Faith flies and she's the only (mostly) pure of the bunch.

But a skeleton with wings is pretty generic symbology for 'death' though really, isn't it? Decay and angels and such...

It is, but I'm going to assume they meant it as a big hint that I won the bet.

That'll be cool if they meant it as a big hint that you won the bet. It will make the pain of defeat that much sweeter when they reveal you're wrong.

[jmatt]

But with Ax releasing all the info on Harada and Psiots, once Harada is revealed, Kris no longer has any leverage to keep her family safe. At that point, the video doesnt matter anymore. Of course, Harada would also likely have other things on his mind besides her parents then, as well.

Yeah, Ax released way more harmful information to the public and Harada has already declared he is taking control of the world. I doubt anything Kris could release could be worse for public relations than that.

"Toyo Harada is taking over the world and he cheats at solitaire?! That scoundrel!"

That'll be cool if they meant it as a big hint that you won the bet. It will make the pain of defeat that much sweeter when they reveal you're wrong. Again.

Fixed that for you.

We really do need to work on your mockery and derision skills. Don't you have a mean streak anywhere inside of you?

Besides, it's Torque.

[kjjohanson]

Yeah, Ax released way more harmful information to the public and Harada has already declared he is taking control of the world. I doubt anything Kris could release could be worse for public relations than that.

I need to go back and re-read the @x issues; I don't remember exactly what he released. But the scene with Kris in 6 sticks in my mind, so I went back to double-check exactly what the exchange was.

We really do need to work on your mockery and derision skills. Don't you have a mean streak anywhere inside of you?

Besides, it's Torque.

I know that Valiant is not the best with having covers accurately match up with the content of the books, but I think with Armor Hunters they're expecting to draw in a bunch of new people, so I expect that they're trying to keep those covers on the level. We've already seen posts here on the board of the original art and the chromium flat, and Torque and Faith are still in those, so I think they're both safe. We've seen Pete on the cover of #25, so I think he's safe, and it looks from the promo art that they're not going to wuss out and fulfill the required death with Animalia. That leaves Kris or Flamingo, which I'm cool with as it means at worst I push. I kinda think that the whole hookup between Torque and Faith doesn't mean one of them is marked for death, a la every horror movie ever, but rather that post-Volume 1 the Renegades are going to go their separate ways; partially, anyway. I expect we'll see Faith and Torque with Gen Zero and Pete and Kris out there trying to recruit other big bads to fight Harada.

[jmatt]

I kinda think that the whole hookup between Torque and Faith doesn't mean one of them is marked for death, a la every horror movie ever...

Look, I know you're trying to talk yourself into believing the bad choice you made in the bet. It's okay, no one can blame you.

But it's clear that Torque is going to die. Housebound, disabled, shut-in with wild fantasies about women finally gets it on with big-boobed virgin compatriot. If that's not screaming for a tragic ending, I don't know what is.

Especially since it's an homage to prior canon and introduces a fatherless pregnancy into the mix. Perhaps the child is whisked to the future (more canon) and falls in love with the grand daughter of a certain immortal we all know in 4001.

Please know that I'm going to spend your $50 wisely. Tick-tock.

[rpellech83]

The covers in the arc itself don't mean Pete lives. If he dies in 23 the 25 cover could be a reflection on that battle. Then again 25 in VH1 was the climactic Sting Harada battle. While I still have a nagging suspicion Pete bites it, Kris dying would lead to a major battle. Harada killing Kris could be his way of breaking Pete.

[bygranddesign]

I'll post this discussion of issue #22 here also:

Big question is: What exactly did Pete do to Kris? This is likely to come back as a huge plot point next issue. Kris is also on her own with Animalia (young, unstable, not attached to the Renegades) and non-powered @x. All that combined makes me think its Kris who will wind up in the ground.

Hmm.. I think you might be onto something. Kris allowing Peter back into her head - could lead to her ultimately being the one that gets killed.

Peter would already go crazy if Kris would die ... but if he is partly responsible for her death because he was in her head - that would make it doubly tragic - which sounds like a great way for Dysart to tie a bow on this tragic tale.

This was the plot point that sort of went under the radar - while everything else was more easy detect/heavy handed.

The problem is - I'm not sure exactly what they were doing but if its something like mind control (like he did with the trucker) - I could see this leading to her dying and Peter feeling the whole thing happening as he will also be inside her mind.

This will lead to the massive battle for issue #25

I've felt like Kris and Flamingo were the two most likely ... and it was really close between the two.

I think Kris has taken the lead

[jmatt]

It's looking like Faith or Torque. Not just that final panel, but all of the foreshadowing...

[bygranddesign]

It's looking like Faith or Torque. Not just that final panel, but all of the foreshadowing...

Dysart definitely was pushing you to think it would be one of those two .. from the opening page with Faith's dream to Charlene and Faith saying how Torque seems more "real" to obviously him getting fried by Ion.

but I think it could be a misdirection - and its the Pete and Kris story that will end in tragedy

One more month ....

[jmatt]

It's looking like Faith or Torque. Not just that final panel, but all of the foreshadowing...

Dysart definitely was pushing you to think it would be one of those two .. from the opening page with Faith's dream to Charlene and Faith saying how Torque seems more "real" to obviously him getting fried by Ion.

but I think it could be a misdirection - and its the Pete and Kris story that will end in tragedy

One more month ....

I agree completely. And to argue against myself, would a writer stage a character's death in one arc only to actually kill the same character in the next?

Now that I've had a few hours to let the issue sink in, the issue is starting to feel like misdirection.

[bamaphilosopher]

Lol, who says comic nerds can't talk smack?

So, more folks think it might be Faith or Torque, huh?

I just assumed it wouldn't be Torque because they'd done it before. However, if I had to vote who I wanted to die, I'd vote for him, because he's the weakest character (IMO), even though the VEI version is somewhat more interesting than the VH1 version. It would be a nice homage to VH1, and it would keep the original VH1 team intact, which I personally would like to see.

That said, I still think the chances are slim, and think it'll probably be Kris or Flamingo. But man, I really do hope it is Torque. That would make me happy.

I think Faith would shock me most of all. I just refuse to believe they would do it. That would shock me more than Sting, which would also shock me.

I'm still going with Kris or Flamingo, but again, I'll have a huge smile on my face if it's Torque. Anyone else, and I'll be shocked and upset, probably. Actually, the thought of Kris or Flamingo dying is upsetting somewhat too, especially Flamingo - she's my favorite. I have to stick with my fellow Alabamian (she was from Abbeville, Alabama, in the original VH1 series). But I'm trying to steel myself because I think her chances are pretty high.

But Torque? Man, I hope it IS him.

Actually, I'm more upset now that the renegades are apparently going to go on hiatus. I hope they aren't just repeating the mistake VH1 made: having the original team disappear after issue 25. I just really think that would suck.

[bamaphilosopher]

It's looking like Faith or Torque. Not just that final panel, but all of the foreshadowing...

but I think it could be a misdirection - and its the Pete and Kris story that will end in tragedy

One more month ....

Yes, I agree. It just makes too much sense, and seems to be where the title has been heading. I think that would be the most powerful, gut-wrenching story they could tell, IMO.

[jmatt]

I have to admit, even though I'm not crazy about VEI announcing stuff like this months before it happens, it does make the speculation more interesting. Try to view this issue as if you had no idea that a Renegade death was imminent; it would be less interesting, imo.

[kjjohanson]

Now that I've had a few hours to let the issue sink in, the issue is starting to feel like misdirection.

It's as if they intentionally wrapped drama around all of the team members, what with the Faith and Torque relationship and whatever was going on with Kris and Pete. Well, all but one, anyway.

[kjjohanson]

My first thought about the Kris and Pete scene (and this was just a gut reaction, because it's not established as part of Pete's power set) was that Pete and Kris were somehow swapping their minds between bodies. Mostly I was just trying to figure out *something* that they could be doing.

[BugsySig]

My first thought about the Kris and Pete scene (and this was just a gut reaction, because it's not established as part of Pete's power set) was that Pete and Kris were somehow swapping their minds between bodies. Mostly I was just trying to figure out *something* that they could be doing.

I thought about this too. Two reasons: 1st that Torque was the one used to enter the HGC building when Pete likely could have done so more easily with his powers (though he was flying). 2nd it was Pete on the TV talking to Harada, a role normally played by Kris.

[kjjohanson]

My first thought about the Kris and Pete scene (and this was just a gut reaction, because it's not established as part of Pete's power set) was that Pete and Kris were somehow swapping their minds between bodies. Mostly I was just trying to figure out *something* that they could be doing.

I thought about this too. Two reasons: 1st that Torque was the one used to enter the HGC building when Pete likely could have done so more easily with his powers (though he was flying). 2nd it was Pete on the TV talking to Harada, a role normally played by Kris.

I think that the one thing that we can be certain of when it comes to Kris and Pete is that all is not as it seems. At least for now.

[Phoenix8008]

My first thought about the Kris and Pete scene (and this was just a gut reaction, because it's not established as part of Pete's power set) was that Pete and Kris were somehow swapping their minds between bodies. Mostly I was just trying to figure out *something* that they could be doing.

I thought about this too. Two reasons: 1st that Torque was the one used to enter the HGC building when Pete likely could have done so more easily with his powers (though he was flying). 2nd it was Pete on the TV talking to Harada, a role normally played by Kris.

I think that the one thing that we can be certain of when it comes to Kris and Pete is that all is not as it seems. At least for now.

Wow, what an idea! What if Kris takes Pete's body and then Pete gets Kris's body killed!? Imagine Kris's brains behind Peter's powers!

[lorddunlow]

My first thought about the Kris and Pete scene (and this was just a gut reaction, because it's not established as part of Pete's power set) was that Pete and Kris were somehow swapping their minds between bodies. Mostly I was just trying to figure out *something* that they could be doing.

I thought about this too. Two reasons: 1st that Torque was the one used to enter the HGC building when Pete likely could have done so more easily with his powers (though he was flying). 2nd it was Pete on the TV talking to Harada, a role normally played by Kris.

I think that the one thing that we can be certain of when it comes to Kris and Pete is that all is not as it seems. At least for now.

Wow, what an idea! What if Kris takes Pete's body and then Pete gets Kris's body killed!? Imagine Kris's brains behind Peter's powers!

That would have made the bet very messy. Glad none of us picked either of those two.

The whole thing seemed like misdirection. Damn that Dysart! I'm leaning Torque or Faith, but Dysart likes to screw with our heads.

I could really see any of them go.

One thing that has me a little concerned is that Ax is listed with picture as one of the Renegades in the front cover of Harbinger #22. Does that mean he's being considered a Renegade? His death would fit all of the upcoming covers. Just seems like a cop out if it's him.

[Phoenix8008]

My first thought about the Kris and Pete scene (and this was just a gut reaction, because it's not established as part of Pete's power set) was that Pete and Kris were somehow swapping their minds between bodies. Mostly I was just trying to figure out *something* that they could be doing.

I thought about this too. Two reasons: 1st that Torque was the one used to enter the HGC building when Pete likely could have done so more easily with his powers (though he was flying). 2nd it was Pete on the TV talking to Harada, a role normally played by Kris.

I think that the one thing that we can be certain of when it comes to Kris and Pete is that all is not as it seems. At least for now.

Wow, what an idea! What if Kris takes Pete's body and then Pete gets Kris's body killed!? Imagine Kris's brains behind Peter's powers!

That would have made the bet very messy. Glad none of us picked either of those two.

The whole thing seemed like misdirection. Damn that Dysart! I'm leaning Torque or Faith, but Dysart likes to screw with our heads.

I could really see any of them go.

One thing that has me a little concerned is that Ax is listed with picture as one of the Renegades in the front cover of Harbinger #22. Does that mean he's being considered a Renegade? His death would fit all of the upcoming covers. Just seems like a cop out if it's him.

I agree that it would be a cop out for Ax to be the one who dies. Based on hearing Dysart talk about the stories, I think it's one of the original 5 though due to the depth of impact it is supposed to have on all the surviving characters. Dysart is a master of misdirection, all right. I love that even at this late hour, it could be any of the 5. I don't think it'll be Torque or Faith or Peter. I'm leaning towards Flamingo as most likely, followed by Kris.

[jmatt]

One thing that has me a little concerned is that Ax is listed with picture as one of the Renegades in the front cover of Harbinger #22. Does that mean he's being considered a Renegade? His death would fit all of the upcoming covers. Just seems like a cop out if it's him.

I thought the same thing. I think it even said he "joined" the Renegades.

What if Kris takes Pete's body and then Pete gets Kris's body killed!? Imagine Kris's brains behind Peter's powers!

That would cheese me off, actually. I find the mind swapping to be a pretty big reach, but if somehow Pete's mind could die but his powers stay with his body...

[bygranddesign]

This page from issue #23 looks like the potential for a mind swap

[bygranddesign]

Also, in FCBD there is a poster in the middle of Armor Hunters preview that has Faith and Peter in it.

Wouldn't take too much stock in it - but I think it shows the importance of those 2 characters going forward in the universe.

I think it has become likely that the renegades get devastated by Harada - Faith and Torque join Gen Zero .. And Peter goes into hiding and re-emerges in Harbinger: Omegas.

I think eventually Peter forms a NEW group of Renegades .. and that's when the next chapter begins.

And i'm sticking with either Flamingo or Kris dying (Kris being the one most likely) - the one that doesn't die joins Peter and his new group of Renegades.