XO Manowar #23 Discussion

[jmatt]

Plus, Capshaw's comments to Aric about any Russian and Chinese salvage crews would seem to suggest that America hasn't sent any salvage crews yet which is odd.

America doesn't have a space program.

Of course we do. SpaceX is doing amazing things. Check out Grasshopper. SpaceX can put stuff in orbit at one-tenth the cost of NASA.

And of course we have the space station and rovers on Mars.

What we don't have is the Shuttle, and with good reason. It was insanely expensive to operate.

[Phoenix8008]

Plus, Capshaw's comments to Aric about any Russian and Chinese salvage crews would seem to suggest that America hasn't sent any salvage crews yet which is odd.

America doesn't have a space program.

Of course we do. SpaceX is doing amazing things. Check out Grasshopper. SpaceX can put stuff in orbit at one-tenth the cost of NASA.

And of course we have the space station and rovers on Mars.

What we don't have is the Shuttle, and with good reason. It was insanely expensive to operate.

SpaceX isn't an American Government space program though, it is a private enterprise. And thank goodness! That's why they can do more with less.

[jmatt]

SpaceX isn't an American Government space program though, it is a private enterprise. And thank goodness! That's why they can do more with less.

Indeed. The US government is smart to finally turn this over to private enterprise. By doing so, the effort is expended on tangible results and not pork spending with the procurement contracts spread across Congressional districts from sea to shining sea.

[bamaphilosopher]

I forgot to talk about my biggest peeve about this week's books:

The preview in all the books was of the next issue of X-O, and therefore picked up immediately after the cliffhanger ending of this issue.

I read Bleeding Monk first, and there was no indication that the next page in the book was going to spoil that week's issue of X-O. I didn't read the preview (as I usually avoid them) , but it was hard to unsee (and unread) what was on that first page of that preview - I knew that Malgam was going to grow armor where Aric shot him in the head, I knew Aric was going to fight with him, etc. I've mentioned not liking the previews, but this one made me pretty mad, as I hate having plot points ruined (especially in an issue which skipped on plot development so much and was already a quick read). It really took away from my enjoyment of the issue.

[.

That's a continual peevish thing for me, seeing as they include these spoilers/previews in the back of EVERY issue now. It's gotten to the point, where I don't know when to turn to the next page, because there's now warning page that a preview of another comic is coming. Seriously, If I wanna see previews of the next issue of a book, I'll go direct to the Valiant website, seeing as they post previews of all their upcoming books. Lose the previews at the back of the books VEI.!!!!

I agree with you guys: I really, REALLY wish they'd quit doing those stupid previews! For collectors like us, who get all the issues, it's just a waste of space. I mean, do they really help them get new readers? I bet most of their fans are checking out all their issues anyway. Besides, a single splash page would be just as effective, IMO.

So, yes, a major pet peeve of mine as well. I wish they'd quit doing it!

[bamaphilosopher]

As for the issue itself, I loved it! I'm getting hyped about Armor Hunters.

Granted, it is a little light on story, I can see that, but I'm so excited about it that doesn't so much matter to me. The art was good, and Malgam does a good job of introducing the coming conflict and making you wonder, just what happened to this guy? And, as someone else mentioned, Aric mooning the satellite was classic. I'll never forget that scene, really funny I think.

X-O Manowar has always been a little light on story and more heavy on action. I personally think the book needs more supporting characters, like Alexander Dorian, maybe bring back versions of Ken Clarkson and Randy Carter from VH1. Even the VH1 book suffered from not having enough supporting characters, even with Ken and Randy. And this title doesn't have them. The only supporting characters of note, it seems, are Saana, who is merely a love interest without much depth, Alexander Dorian, who's sadly virtually disappeared, and the guy who initially led a rebellion among the Visigoths, I'm forgetting his name at the moment. Oh, and now, Colonel Capshaw. I think it would improve the book to delve more into some background characters.

That said, the plots have been pretty awesome, I think: Planet Death, then the invasion of Romania that set up Unity, now Aric having to work for the U.S. government and not liking it. And now, this Armor Hunters thing.

Yes, standard comic book story - reminds me of a lot of Superman stories I read back in the day. But, that's part of why I liked it.

While I like some of the various theories on here as to Malgam's identity, I think it's cooler if he's just an alien from another sector who had his own battle armor, and got beaten, badly. I hope they don't do the "he's a future Aric" or "He's Gafti" ideas you guys have mentioned. I personally think it works better if he's just a whole new alien.

As for speaking different languages: I think Shanhara can probably translate. However, you guys raise a good point: they should have made note of this. A single line of dialogue would have sufficed. "Shanhara, can you translate?" or something like that.

[bamaphilosopher]

I know that it's a comic book, but I hate it when there is talking in space between characters. I think that it would have kept a bit more mystery about the alien if he was not speaking until he got down to the surface. Otherwise, establish that Aric can hear him through Shanhara somehow.

I really wish that they would establish the link between Aric and Shanhara more. I feel like there is a lot more room for Shanhara to grow. I loved when Livewire was describing how it felt to talk to it and why it chose Aric etc. Need more like that, showing why the most powerful weapon in the Universe is choosing to be with him. Maybe have it start protecting him without his command, doing things on its own to a degree?

Good point about talking in space! Maybe they could have made a note of that with dialogue, too, like, "Shanhara, he's trying to speak, but I can't hear him in space...can you give me voice recognition?" or something like that. And that, along with my post above about a line of dialogue about Shanhara translating, would address your second point about the link between Aric and Shanhara.

So, I do wish they'd put a little more thought into that. Just a couple of easy dialogue lines, and you would get the feel that Shanhara is sentient and involved in the story, rather than just a piece of armor.

[lorddunlow]

Anybody else think Sanaa is a Vine Planting spy?

I just keep getting that via for some reason.

[jmatt]

X-O space action...hell yeah.

That has been sorely missing and is much appreciated. There's been some coming and goings in space (like Loam) but action in space is great.

I personally think the book needs more supporting characters...

Same here. Or perhaps more flesh in the bones of the existing characters.

[bamaphilosopher]

Anybody else think Sanaa is a Vine Planting spy?

I just keep getting that via for some reason.

That would be interesting! If they do that, it would be cool. Otherwise, she seems to me to be a very flat character.

[jmatt]

Anybody else think Sanaa is a Vine Planting spy?

Mmm, when did she first start hanging with Aric? If it was on Loam, you'd think she would have been put into play by now, or at least been tipping the Vine to his plans, etc.

[bamaphilosopher]

Anybody else think Sanaa is a Vine Planting spy?

Mmm, when did she first start hanging with Aric? If it was on Loam, you'd think she would have been put into play by now, or at least been tipping the Vine to his plans, etc.

They'd better do something with her. Otherwise, she's just showing that Aric is "getting some." Yawn. Might as well just kill her off and have Aric grieve if that's all she's there for...but I think having her be a Vine spy is a really good idea. I just hope they do something with her character to make her more interesting.

[apainter]

Plus, Capshaw's comments to Aric about any Russian and Chinese salvage crews would seem to suggest that America hasn't sent any salvage crews yet which is odd.

Capshaw said pretty much the same thing in issue 15. "Who's up there today? The Russians, Chinese, or both? By the time NASA gets our shuttle orbiters out of the museums, all the good tech will be gone."

Art

[kjjohanson]

too generic comic-booky.

Are you seriously complaining that this comic book is too "comic-booky"?

-- What language is everyone speaking? We get angle brackets around the Chinese speakers' text, but everyone else is without. Is everyone else -- the Visigoths, the alien -- speaking English?
-- Explosive decompression. Sure, the atmosphere would rush out of the smashed ship, but not at limb-rending force! Perhaps the limb-rending had more to do with Aric's strength than the wind, somehow. If so, Aric better be real careful if he hugs Saana while wearing the suit.

Both of these bugged the hell outta me.

-- Aric's "visigoths" landed on Earth without getting any type of inoculations, as far as we've seen. The common cold could be as fatal for them as it was for HG Wells' martians. On the other side, since they grew up in Loam, what diseases are they carrying that could spread among the rest of the Earth? I would imagine these are the types of concerns that MERO would be dealing with. From what we've seen, there have been no health problems at all. On the contrary, it's a very robust community. I would expect this to be an issue at some point, especially if the Visigoths are going to get integrated into the modern world. (I expect they would, at some point.)

I just assumed Vine medicine rendered them and their slaves virtually disease free.

I'll second the short read detracting from my overall enjoyment. However, this issue was fun. I cackled at Aric mooning the satellite.

This book is always ultra decompressed - it's why it lay at the bottom of my pull list for most of its run (until Unity).

Valiant First, but X-O last?

[kjjohanson]

SpaceX isn't an American Government space program though, it is a private enterprise. And thank goodness! That's why they can do more with less.

Indeed. The US government is smart to finally turn this over to private enterprise. By doing so, the effort is expended on tangible results and not pork spending with the procurement contracts spread across Congressional districts from sea to shining sea.

I'll leave my argument for the worthiness of government-funded research for another thread, and just say that it's possible that there are private companies in the mix as well, so maybe we'll see the emergence of some corporate power with alien tech in the future. Maybe the Armorines will be a private army?

[kjjohanson]

I know that it's a comic book, but I hate it when there is talking in space between characters. I think that it would have kept a bit more mystery about the alien if he was not speaking until he got down to the surface. Otherwise, establish that Aric can hear him through Shanhara somehow.

I really wish that they would establish the link between Aric and Shanhara more. I feel like there is a lot more room for Shanhara to grow. I loved when Livewire was describing how it felt to talk to it and why it chose Aric etc. Need more like that, showing why the most powerful weapon in the Universe is choosing to be with him. Maybe have it start protecting him without his command, doing things on its own to a degree?

Good point about talking in space! Maybe they could have made a note of that with dialogue, too, like, "Shanhara, he's trying to speak, but I can't hear him in space...can you give me voice recognition?" or something like that. And that, along with my post above about a line of dialogue about Shanhara translating, would address your second point about the link between Aric and Shanhara.

So, I do wish they'd put a little more thought into that. Just a couple of easy dialogue lines, and you would get the feel that Shanhara is sentient and involved in the story, rather than just a piece of armor.

There's a difference between "easy dialogue lines" and "good dialogue lines." It makes sense to me that Shanhara would automatically do what it could to ease communication for Aric. I don't think everything needs to be explicit, especially when the dialogue doesn't flow naturally.

[kjjohanson]

too generic comic-booky.

Are you seriously complaining that this comic book is too "comic-booky"?

Too generic comic-booky, yes.

The Marvel and DC universes are replete with "aliens" that are just a different shade of human, with very little to set them apart from terrestrial civilizations. I can probably understand and relate more to a Kree or Shi'ar or a Kryptonian than a Yamanami Indian or !kung tribesman. I like the Vine, I like the spider-aliens from the old Valiant -- they were sufficiently alien enough for my tastes. I even like "the bouldermen from Petros" (despite the cliche name)! I'd rather have Close Encounters in the Valiant Universe be rare occurrence than in other comic book universes. I don't want to see Star Trek version of aliens, which is just a person with a bumpy forhead. I'd like Valiant remain rather low key and grounded, and not get too lost and cluttered with lumpy-headed aliens.

I honestly don't get caught up in brackets and parenthesis for various language identifications so I'm not upset. If I didn't read that some are noticing it I would still be oblivious. I read the english and keep going. Not saying there isn't some validity to drawing attention to it, I'm just not hung up on it.

It's definitely a total OCD nitpick, but if they bracket the Chinese and Vine, then we must assume that Malgam is speaking English. Otherwise don't give anyone brackets. I'd be perfectly fine if everyone just spoke English in the word bubbles and no one was brackets. I'm fine with consistently pretending everyone speaks English - that is super common in sci-fi and I accept it, as it is too difficult to accomplish a realistic system without cheating with a universal translator explanation.

The inconsistency is what bothers me most; as you and I noted, the Vine and Chinese dialogue is marked out.

This same problem took me out of the story a bit during the Homecoming arc, when Saana overheard Aric and Alexander talking and she asked what a CEO was. What, did Saana understand the rest of the conversation? Were they speaking English? Visigothian? Esperanto? In that same arc, I think all the Russian was in brackets, but not Saana, Aric, or Alexander.

Art

I don't have a problem with Shanhara translating on the fly for Aric, allowing him to communicate with everyone, but yes, there should be that barrier for others. One other thing that should be noted is that without the armor, Aric should be having trouble communicating with the Visigoths too. They've been separated from Earth for 1600 years, so they should be as incomprehensible to Aric as Old English is to us. Google the original Beowulf text and see if any of it makes any sense. Even the Canterbury Tales, which is much more recent, seems to be in a foreign language.

[BugsySig]

SpaceX isn't an American Government space program though, it is a private enterprise. And thank goodness! That's why they can do more with less.

Indeed. The US government is smart to finally turn this over to private enterprise. By doing so, the effort is expended on tangible results and not pork spending with the procurement contracts spread across Congressional districts from sea to shining sea.

I'll leave my argument for the worthiness of government-funded research for another thread, and just say that it's possible that there are private companies in the mix as well, so maybe we'll see the emergence of some corporate power with alien tech in the future. Maybe the Armorines will be a private army?

One would think both HGC and Orb would be interested in salvaging that material, not to mention PRS.

[kjjohanson]

SpaceX isn't an American Government space program though, it is a private enterprise. And thank goodness! That's why they can do more with less.

Indeed. The US government is smart to finally turn this over to private enterprise. By doing so, the effort is expended on tangible results and not pork spending with the procurement contracts spread across Congressional districts from sea to shining sea.

I'll leave my argument for the worthiness of government-funded research for another thread, and just say that it's possible that there are private companies in the mix as well, so maybe we'll see the emergence of some corporate power with alien tech in the future. Maybe the Armorines will be a private army?

One would think both HGC and Orb would be interested in salvaging that material, not to mention PRS.

Orb would be the most interesting of the three, especially since HGC and PRS are both firmly grounded in the Valiant Universe, and we haven't seen any indication that any have space-travel capability (and really, why would they? They're most concerned with superhuman abilities.)

[hunter_peterson]

SpaceX isn't an American Government space program though, it is a private enterprise. And thank goodness! That's why they can do more with less.

Indeed. The US government is smart to finally turn this over to private enterprise. By doing so, the effort is expended on tangible results and not pork spending with the procurement contracts spread across Congressional districts from sea to shining sea.

I'll leave my argument for the worthiness of government-funded research for another thread, and just say that it's possible that there are private companies in the mix as well, so maybe we'll see the emergence of some corporate power with alien tech in the future. Maybe the Armorines will be a private army?

One would think both HGC and Orb would be interested in salvaging that material, not to mention PRS.

Orb would be the most interesting of the three, especially since HGC and PRS are both firmly grounded in the Valiant Universe, and we haven't seen any indication that any have space-travel capability (and really, why would they? They're most concerned with superhuman abilities.)

I really want Orb to become a big presence in the Valiant U. It should be the corporate center of Vine/extraterrestrial activity. XO has really slacked in comparison to the other titles in its world building. We still have the Vine Plantlings that are active on Earth and we've seen none of that! Armor Hunters sounds great, but I really, really want to see Aric deal with the extraterrestrials already on Earth. And it really doesn't utilize any character except Aric well- here never seems to be more than one supporting cast member in any issue, the romantic interest is intensely uninteresting and Alexander is criminally underutilized.

Not that I don't still like the book, mind, but it has some pacing, characterization and world building issues.

[grendeljd]

I really enjoyed this issue overall [sorry, I'm late to the commentary party]. As most have said here, it was a great all out action issue in space! I didn't mind it being a quick read at all.

The art was really great, I loved it much more than anything else I've seen Diego Bernard do at Valiant to date. I particularly liked the two page splash of Aric flying past the debris ring. The regular cover by CAFU is also fantastic.

So... 'Malgam'... I like the story set up for Armor Hunters via his arrival, and the implications about the parasitic nature of the XO armor based on what has happened to him in this issue. Although I gotta say, I really think 'malgam' is a terribly silly choice for a name. I get it, its a play on amalgam, which he clearly represents in physical form... but the name is a little too obvious. Really, would anyone chose to name themselves that in his situation? At least in this issue he didn't actually refer to himself as malgam, so perhaps he has an actual name...

To address a few points made in the thread - I would also like to see Orb back in the story and/or the Valiant Universe as a major industrial player. They could be the ones in the private sector that end up funding an armorines project...

The talking in space thing also bothers me a bit - you could do some mental gymnastics & imagine that Malgam & Aric alone can hear each other via the XO suits rather than actually be talking out loud in a vacuum [speaking of which, how is Malgam breathing & not freezing to death on his, er... naked... side?] - but then, Malgam does speak to the Chinese astronaut too... I know, this is an entertaining comic book & I don't want to overthink it, but it does take a stab at being a reasonably intelligent sci-fi tale rather than a generic superhero book. I'd like to see a more consistent use of translation brackets too, as some have noted.

As far as hearing Shanhara's 'voice', or seeing Aric having more dialogue with it, I'd like that too. As kjjohanson mentioned, its a case of 'easy dialogue vs good dialogue' - it needs to be handled properly if V-Ditti is going to do it at all. I doubt he will as he has established a storytelling style now.

I was thinking it could be more overt, like how Bloodshots nanites were communicating with him after a point, with abbreviated headings graphic designed specifically so you knew it was them only speaking in his mind.