UNITY #5 Discussion

[mateo107]

I think the WWII Unity came across very organically and unforced. we already knew there was a Bloodshot in WWII, Gilad of course would have been there, and we could assume there was a Shadowman (or woman) in the period as well.

[swtor1091]

so great issue 10/10 I just have to ask people hear... Giliad said that its the Earth's plan for them to be fighting together but isn't he against the Earth at this point... i'm really confused about Eternal Warrior in general right now...

[BugsySig]

so great issue 10/10 I just have to ask people hear... Giliad said that its the Earth's plan for them to be fighting together but isn't he against the Earth at this point... i'm really confused about Eternal Warrior in general right now...

The first EW arc takes place "a few years" before A&A #5, where Gilad is shown serving the Earth and the Geomancer.

Even though it hasn't been covered (and is extremely annoying that it hasn't been) at some point between EW #4 and A&A #5 Gilad has to have returned to the service of the Earth.

Based on his aging in 4001, he seems to have left the Earth's service again some time in the future.

We also know despite his "retirement" from fighting for the Earth in the 1860s he has fought at various times since, including WWII and for MI6 in the 1960s.

So while the contradictory plot points can be reconciled, it creates an overly complicated timeline at this point. This is something that needs to be addressed, and soon, so as not to further convolute the character and concept.

[Captain Craig]

Fantastic ISSUE, FANtastic---A
More Livewire was needed for the + to be added.

They did what I hoped:
Establish a reason to exist beyond Harada
Have a place to meet...ok, maybe a few issues away but Ninjak alludes to "maybe somewhere not my place"

What I didn't expect:
Establish a Golden Age UNITY team ala Invaders(mixing up the JSA comparison)


This of course raises questions about the LOA being tied to a Boniface, right? I was kinda under the impression the Loa was tied to that lineage.

Dr.Silk is not just old...he's ancient, demented and just a purely evil *SQUEE* that's cheated time&death somehow.
E.R.A. would be impressed.

This title has jumped into my top 3 from the middle of the pack now.

VALIANT give me a shirt with this UNITY team on it and I'll buy it.

[bygranddesign]

This of course raises questions about the LOA being tied to a Boniface, right? I was kinda under the impression the Loa was tied to that lineage.

She or he (i'm not a 100% sure about the gender) could have been a Boniface. Maybe a short lived Shadowman like Leroy, where the darkness of the Loa, overtook him/her. Leroy also wasn't mentioned in the 1st issue of Shadowman as one of the former hosts. Not sure if that was an oversight or perhaps the Loa doesn't mention the "failed" Shadowmen.

Another thought that I had when I read it was that maybe the Military, knowing about the Shadowman and forever looking to create the next great super soldier, captured the Shadow LOA and forced it to meld with a host that was a great soldier but psychological unqualified (and also not a Boniface). And basically created a monster.

[bygranddesign]

so great issue 10/10 I just have to ask people hear... Giliad said that its the Earth's plan for them to be fighting together but isn't he against the Earth at this point... i'm really confused about Eternal Warrior in general right now...

The first EW arc takes place "a few years" before A&A #5, where Gilad is shown serving the Earth and the Geomancer.

Even though it hasn't been covered (and is extremely annoying that it hasn't been) at some point between EW #4 and A&A #5 Gilad has to have returned to the service of the Earth.

Based on his aging in 4001, he seems to have left the Earth's service again some time in the future.

We also know despite his "retirement" from fighting for the Earth in the 1860s he has fought at various times since, including WWII and for MI6 in the 1960s.

So while the contradictory plot points can be reconciled, it creates an overly complicated timeline at this point. This is something that needs to be addressed, and soon, so as not to further convolute the character and concept.

+1

Hopefully with the hiatus they figure this out because it is very convoluted. I think they are also allowing Kindt to run with the character for awhile ... and then figure out how to reconcile everything when they bring the title back.

[BugsySig]

This of course raises questions about the LOA being tied to a Boniface, right? I was kinda under the impression the Loa was tied to that lineage.

She or he (i'm not a 100% sure about the gender) could have been a Boniface. Maybe a short lived Shadowman like Leroy, where the darkness of the Loa, overtook him/her. Leroy also wasn't mentioned in the 1st issue of Shadowman as one of the former hosts. Not sure if that was an oversight or perhaps the Loa doesn't mention the "failed" Shadowmen.

Another thought that I had when I read it was that maybe the Military, knowing about the Shadowman and forever looking to create the next great super soldier, captured the Shadow LOA and forced it to meld with a host that was a great soldier but psychological unqualified (and also not a Boniface). And basically created a monster.

I'm 99% sure it was a female. There were breasts....I mean boobies

And I agree it doesn't have to be a direct line of Boniface father to son. In the last issue of SM we see the Abbetors bring Jack's female cousin to host the loa. But I believe the list the Loa announces in issue 1 could be attributed to a direct line. It says, "Jack, son of Josiah...son of Marius" etc. That would be an ancient way of formally naming someone and since it was being done by an ancient Vodun loa in what amounted to a bonding ceremony, then that makes sense to me.

[bygranddesign]

I'm 99% sure it was a female. There were breasts....I mean boobies
.

When I get the chance, I'll have to take a closer look

I certainly will not question your skillz of observation when it comes to spotting boobies

[jmatt]

I'm 99% sure it was a female. There were breasts....I mean boobies
.

When I get the chance, I'll have to take a closer look

I certainly will not question your skillz of observation when it comes to spotting boobies

Yeah, I was under the impression it was male; but the beret makes more sense now. Hard to believe I missed boobs. Shoulda looked more like the love child of Vampirella and Shadowman.

[Baramos]

It was clearly a French Shadowoman what with the beret and such...we can assume she's related to the Boniface line in some way.

I kind of agree on not exactly liking the WWII team thing...kind of hokey. It's like something DC or Marvel would do. Valiant seems like it should be trying to avoid that. Also the idea of Shadow(wo)man being on a team is kind of weird, especially since that appeared to be in broad daylight on a battlefield. It doesn't make sense at all to me, really.

[kjjohanson]

This of course raises questions about the LOA being tied to a Boniface, right? I was kinda under the impression the Loa was tied to that lineage.

She or he (i'm not a 100% sure about the gender) could have been a Boniface. Maybe a short lived Shadowman like Leroy, where the darkness of the Loa, overtook him/her. Leroy also wasn't mentioned in the 1st issue of Shadowman as one of the former hosts. Not sure if that was an oversight or perhaps the Loa doesn't mention the "failed" Shadowmen.

Another thought that I had when I read it was that maybe the Military, knowing about the Shadowman and forever looking to create the next great super soldier, captured the Shadow LOA and forced it to meld with a host that was a great soldier but psychological unqualified (and also not a Boniface). And basically created a monster.

I'm 99% sure it was a female. There were breasts....I mean boobies

Maybe it was a guy following the Rob Liefeld pectoral workout?

[Aomalle27]

I'm just not digging the opening of the arc, and seeing that it's only 3 issues, I'm not hopeful that it's going to improve. Dr Silk needs some developing, and hopefully that'll come, but again, with only 2 issues left, not sure how they tell the story AND flesh out Silk's backstory. Liked how the story is set up as a 007 type narrative (Silk as Blofeld) but now I'm confused with the "new" Aric. He's a mindless brute again, what happened to the caring new Aric that premiered in the latter stages of Unity/XO arc? I though we were getting a more thoughtful and understanding Aric. And why does he jump right into the team? Story needs a lot of fleshing out, but I'll give it a chance. Overall not a good week to be a Valiant reader.

[first_citizenx]

I just read this last night. Man, we finally get to see a Shadowman reference somewhere outside of his own title! I really dug the brief glimpse of the WWII team and I want to know more about the "psychopathic" Shadow...er, woman from the team. Also, the burning question from the issue that it seems everyone keeps tap dancing around: can robots be alcoholic? Inquiring minds want to know

I thought the issue was a blast!

[bygranddesign]

but now I'm confused with the "new" Aric. He's a mindless brute again, what happened to the caring new Aric that premiered in the latter stages of Unity/XO arc? I though we were getting a more thoughtful and understanding Aric. And why does he jump right into the team? Story needs a lot of fleshing out, but I'll give it a chance. Overall not a good week to be a Valiant reader.

This issue showed huge character growth for Aric.

Firstly, he left his Visigoth people to voluntarily join Gilad and Ninjak. He is finally showing that he cares about someone outside of his Visigoth people telling Gilad and Ninjak that he is there because "Livewire is in Danger" and "He will allow no harm to come to her".

Secondly, he showed great RESTRAINT when confronted with the attackers from the factory. His first instinct was to kill (and that's what he did)... but then listened to Ninjak and Gilad by restraining himself as the rest of the factory worker soldiers began unleashing a firestorm of bullets! The old Aric would have WIPED THEM ALL OUT without thinking twice about it. He certainly would not have listened to some "outsiders" who called for him to restrain himself. He actually listened to them and showed greater maturity than any of us could have expected.

So he definitely is not the brute he was before Unity. Kindt did an excellent job in showing real character growth with Aric.

[bygranddesign]

It was clearly a French Shadowoman what with the beret and such...we can assume she's related to the Boniface line in some way.

I kind of agree on not exactly liking the WWII team thing...kind of hokey. It's like something DC or Marvel would do. Valiant seems like it should be trying to avoid that. Also the idea of Shadow(wo)man being on a team is kind of weird, especially since that appeared to be in broad daylight on a battlefield. It doesn't make sense at all to me, really.

Its already been established that there have been plenty of previous versions of Bloodshot that have been around since the 1940's ... and we also know that Eternal Warrior fought in these World War battles ..so tying them together makes sense. It was clearly a short lived team up ..so I don't find it hokey at all. We need to understand how we got to this present day point in Valiant history where all this crazy stuff is happening .. and I think some of it needs to be rooted in the past. Experiments were done. Short lived Team ups happened. These links were developed over a long period time. Gilad is using this failed experience as a learning tool to do it right this time. The 1940's team failed .. and Germany was allowed to run amok for longer than they should have been allowed. I think this is a great way to tie the present day story to the past.

In regards to shadow-women .. i'm not sure that was broad day light. The sky was overcast most of the panels and in the larger panel with all of the team - its lit orange probably due to the explosions and fire power being unleashed.

[bygranddesign]

I'm 99% sure it was a female. There were breasts....I mean boobies
.

When I get the chance, I'll have to take a closer look

I certainly will not question your skillz of observation when it comes to spotting boobies

Yeah, I was under the impression it was male; but the beret makes more sense now. Hard to believe I missed boobs. Shoulda looked more like the love child of Vampirella and Shadowman.

LOL .. yeah, that would have made it easier to spot

I've taken another much closer look .. and I agree with Bugsy in regards to the presence of breasts.

[erwinrafael]

Well many asked for a straight up evil villain, so it looks like they got it. The guy has probably always been unstable. How else do you end up like he does? Better to have someone with a personality disorder than someone who turns evil because a lab accident caused all their hair to fall out.

I agree. Not ever "villain" needs to have shades of gray. Some villains can just be purely evil, and as much as I love complex "bad guy" characters - I also appreciate a good old straight up evil *SQUEE*. But from interviews with Kindt, he seemed to suggest a sympathetic backstory to Dr. Silk ... yet I didn't feel any sympathy/empathy for him in this issue. That could change with the next issue.

Now if we can only have the same done to our heroes. Not all heroes have to have shades of gray to be believable. Faith is the only remaining beacon of hope in the VH1 "heroes," with Armstrong a surprising second.

[BugsySig]

Well many asked for a straight up evil villain, so it looks like they got it. The guy has probably always been unstable. How else do you end up like he does? Better to have someone with a personality disorder than someone who turns evil because a lab accident caused all their hair to fall out.

I agree. Not ever "villain" needs to have shades of gray. Some villains can just be purely evil, and as much as I love complex "bad guy" characters - I also appreciate a good old straight up evil *SQUEE*. But from interviews with Kindt, he seemed to suggest a sympathetic backstory to Dr. Silk ... yet I didn't feel any sympathy/empathy for him in this issue. That could change with the next issue.

Now if we can only have the same done to our heroes. Not all heroes have to have shades of gray to be believable. Faith is the only remaining beacon of hope in the VH1 "heroes," with Armstrong a surprising second.

Despite some anger over the Aram/MM tryst, I think Archer has been pretty cut and dry hero at this point. I could argue Quantum and [present day] Gilad are as well.

Ninjak has proved to be pretty cut and dry himself (surprisingly). The second he found out about the Vine, he turned on his employer to do the right thing. And again on Harada. I don't think he would have turned on Aric at all had he not believed it was in the world's best interest at the time.

[ThatDarnCabbage]

Well many asked for a straight up evil villain, so it looks like they got it. The guy has probably always been unstable. How else do you end up like he does? Better to have someone with a personality disorder than someone who turns evil because a lab accident caused all their hair to fall out.

I agree. Not ever "villain" needs to have shades of gray. Some villains can just be purely evil, and as much as I love complex "bad guy" characters - I also appreciate a good old straight up evil *SQUEE*. But from interviews with Kindt, he seemed to suggest a sympathetic backstory to Dr. Silk ... yet I didn't feel any sympathy/empathy for him in this issue. That could change with the next issue.

Now if we can only have the same done to our heroes. Not all heroes have to have shades of gray to be believable. Faith is the only remaining beacon of hope in the VH1 "heroes," with Armstrong a surprising second.

Despite some anger over the Aram/MM tryst, I think Archer has been pretty cut and dry hero at this point. I could argue Quantum and [present day] Gilad are as well.

Ninjak has proved to be pretty cut and dry himself (surprisingly). The second he found out about the Vine, he turned on his employer to do the right thing. And again on Harada. I don't think he would have turned on Aric at all had he not believed it was in the world's best interest at the time.

I actually believe Armstrong is pretty much a full good guy. He's got his vices, but I've noticed that he has an aversion to killing, where it feels like most "heroes" in this universe are okay with killing. He's got an appreciation for life that few other characters do. He's not perfect, but I wouldn't call him gray, just imperfect.

[coachjamie]

So, basically an amazing book that somehow got even better.

This is probably the best way of describing this issue.

Very, very good.

Definitely have to agree also! Was very entertaining to read! Can't wait for the next issue!

[Dallow Spicer1]

I wasn't too keen on this issue and would rate it as average at best. Didn't like the 'JSA style' super team and the fact that many have made that comparison kind of indicates the concepts lack of originality. This was also attempted during the Acclaim years and that just seemed like a bad rip off too.

My biggest concern about this issue was the development of Ninjak's character. His dialogue was straight out of a Hugh Grant film ("bloody", "bugger me" etc) and was so cliched it borders on lazy! His purple, (left hand drive?) car?!! His 'Bruce Wayne' castle? All very 'this is how British people live and speak' by numbers. All he needs to complete the cliche is a butler! To me, this just underlines Ninjak's status as a B character, ok to appear in other books but not strong enough to support his own.

Would rather XO left this book and appeared only in his own title, Kindts interpretation of Aric seems inconsistent with VDitti's.

I'm mildly intrigued by the town which has the brainwashed inhabitants and I thought the ending of the book was good as I'm interested to know how Livewire was captured and what happened to her?

2.5/5 - art was ok, story ok but lazy in parts.

I have to end this mini rant now as my butler informs me dinner is being served in the west wing of the house!

[bygranddesign]

If anything Valiant at times has been lacking in distinct dialects in their characters - like they are afraid to offend. And the dialogue just comes off as very vanilla

Unless all the BBC programming and all the Harry Potter movies I have consumed over the years are lying to me - "bloody hell" and "bugger off" are common phrases in the British vernacular

These terms add some flavor to the dialogue and gives Colin/Ninjak some kind of voice that quite frankly he's lacked up to this point.

Also, any rich person in a huge mansion is going to have a butler, maids and plenty of other help. It would make no sense if he didn't have those things.

[Dallow Spicer1]

If anything Valiant at times has been lacking in distinct dialects in their characters - like they are afraid to offend. And the dialogue just comes off as very vanilla

Unless all the BBC programming and all the Harry Potter movies I have consumed over the years are lying to me - "bloody hell" and "bugger off" are common phrases in the British vernacular
.

Hi there BGD, sorry to break this to you but films like Harry Potter, James Bond, anything with Hugh Grant in and any other programme intended for a US audience panders to this stereotype. BBC are guilty of this a lot. I'm not sure what UK programmes you catch over there but try The Office (original version), Peep Show, Pheonix Nights, The Inbetweeners etc for a wider and more realistic range of English (not including the rest of the UK even) vernacular.

The Colin King character and virtually all other English characters in comics reflect 1% of the population. Even the female Punk character in Shadowman written by Peter Milligan (a Brit) went to a posh private school which, again, was cliched and a missed opportunity.

I'm not saying those phrases are never said, and sometimes they are used on telly in place of stronger language, it's just a bit 'samey' as a portrayal. If you travel to England, especially the north you'll see how far removed our accents and vernacular are from what you may have seen in films and programmes.

[lorddunlow]

I like Coupling and Black Books. Those shows are hilarious. Didn't Steven Moffat write for Coupling? I know you didn't mention these shows, but your list reminded me of them.

[bygranddesign]

Growing up in the New York/New Jersey area I have met and heard every type of New Yorker. There really are people that act and sound like the Jersey Shore. There really are people that talk and act like the Soprano’s. There really are gangsta thugs who speak ‘hood’. There really are Brooklyn hipsters that sound pretentious and stuck up. There really are paranoid, neurotic manhattanites. And then there are the majority of people who are not part of those extremes but still use some of that same extreme vernacular(and behavior) even if it’s a joke. I’m sure there have been plenty of times I’ve said Fuhgeddaboudit! Sometimes as a joke, sometimes being serious.

btw, i'm sure I've heard Rickey Gervais say Bloody Hell plenty of times. In fact I think every time I see him interviewed he's a walking and talking "stereotype". I also completely disagree that JK Rowlings would ever PANDER to American audiences. She emphasized the exact opposite when giving direction on how her books would be made into movies.

I’m not sure what terms, sayings, dialect, vernacular would have been ok and acceptable to use for you .. but part of the joy of reading is hearing a distinct voice. Imagining that voice in real life and forming a personality for the character through that voice.

I don't want to hijack the thread with this .. but I appreciate the discussion and mini-debate.