Bloodshot in the wake of Valiant First

[hunter_peterson]

So, basically, I keep seeing people saying that Bloodshot and HARDCorps is cancelled. I disagree; I think that they're separating him from the team. Evidence? The Armor Hunters tie in is solely a Bloodshot one, while the impending BS&HC zero issue is solely a HC one. They seem to be testing the waters to see if they work separately.

I think that in the wake of Armor Wars we'll see Bloodshot continue as its own book and then we'll see a new HARDCorps series, if not straight away, then next year some time.

October announcements can't come soon enough!

EDIT: Probably November in relation to this, assuming the tie in is a trade's length.

[bygranddesign]

Yeah I agree. I think the information overload has some people jumping to conclusions about cancellations and re-boots.

This is the way its worded in Newsrama

Valiant confirmed to Newsarama that Bloodshot and H.A.R.D. Corps is coming to an end as the mini-series takes its place, then other series will come into the fold.

Kind of strangely worded. I think its clear that Bloodshot and Hard Corps as a shared title is coming to an end - That is for certain. Whats not clear is what will happen after the mini-series is over. IMO, I think they will continue with Bloodshot's current numbering, I don't think they need to re-launch the character yet.

[hunter_peterson]

Yeah I agree. I think the information overload has some people jumping to conclusions about cancellations and re-boots.

This is the way its worded in Newsrama

Valiant confirmed to Newsarama that Bloodshot and H.A.R.D. Corps is coming to an end as the mini-series takes its place, then other series will come into the fold.

Kind of strangely worded. I think its clear that Bloodshot and Hard Corps as a shared title is coming to an end - That is for certain. Whats not clear is what will happen after the mini-series is over. IMO, I think they will continue with Bloodshot's current numbering, I don't think they need to re-launch the character yet.

I agree. Also, remember Dysart saying he was trying to figure out with Valiant how many books he could juggle? It could be that Bloodshot becomes his second ongoing proper and Christos Gage gets HARDCorps...

[bygranddesign]

Yeah I agree. I think the information overload has some people jumping to conclusions about cancellations and re-boots.

This is the way its worded in Newsrama

Valiant confirmed to Newsarama that Bloodshot and H.A.R.D. Corps is coming to an end as the mini-series takes its place, then other series will come into the fold.

Kind of strangely worded. I think its clear that Bloodshot and Hard Corps as a shared title is coming to an end - That is for certain. Whats not clear is what will happen after the mini-series is over. IMO, I think they will continue with Bloodshot's current numbering, I don't think they need to re-launch the character yet.

I agree. Also, remember Dysart saying he was trying to figure out with Valiant how many books he could juggle? It could be that Bloodshot becomes his second ongoing proper and Christos Gage gets HARDCorps...

Good call. Dysart taking the full reigns of Bloodshot would be awesome.

Gage on HARD Corps ongoing would make sense. But I do think they need to build up some more likable characters (besides Charlie) to make the book successful. The current cast is ok but disposable.

[hunter_peterson]

Yeah I agree. I think the information overload has some people jumping to conclusions about cancellations and re-boots.

This is the way its worded in Newsrama

Valiant confirmed to Newsarama that Bloodshot and H.A.R.D. Corps is coming to an end as the mini-series takes its place, then other series will come into the fold.

Kind of strangely worded. I think its clear that Bloodshot and Hard Corps as a shared title is coming to an end - That is for certain. Whats not clear is what will happen after the mini-series is over. IMO, I think they will continue with Bloodshot's current numbering, I don't think they need to re-launch the character yet.

I agree. Also, remember Dysart saying he was trying to figure out with Valiant how many books he could juggle? It could be that Bloodshot becomes his second ongoing proper and Christos Gage gets HARDCorps...

Good call. Dysart taking the full reigns of Bloodshot would be awesome.

Gage on HARD Corps ongoing would make sense. But I do think they need to build up some more likable characters (besides Charlie) to make the book successful. The current cast is ok but disposable.

I'd argue Palmer, Lifeline and Kozol are all the main cast it needs, the rest can be changing. But I think allowing them full space to breathe would help with that anyway.

[xodacia81]

Yeah I agree. I think the information overload has some people jumping to conclusions about cancellations and re-boots.

This is the way its worded in Newsrama

Valiant confirmed to Newsarama that Bloodshot and H.A.R.D. Corps is coming to an end as the mini-series takes its place, then other series will come into the fold.

Kind of strangely worded. I think its clear that Bloodshot and Hard Corps as a shared title is coming to an end - That is for certain. Whats not clear is what will happen after the mini-series is over. IMO, I think they will continue with Bloodshot's current numbering, I don't think they need to re-launch the character yet.

I agree. Also, remember Dysart saying he was trying to figure out with Valiant how many books he could juggle? It could be that Bloodshot becomes his second ongoing proper and Christos Gage gets HARDCorps...

Good call. Dysart taking the full reigns of Bloodshot would be awesome.

Gage on HARD Corps ongoing would make sense. But I do think they need to build up some more likable characters (besides Charlie) to make the book successful. The current cast is ok but disposable.

I'd argue Palmer, Lifeline and Kozol are all the main cast it needs, the rest can be changing. But I think allowing them full space to breathe would help with that anyway.

Agreed, and to the post before yours, I think having disposable characters is, while part of the book's style, both a blessing and, more importantly, a curse. I think the constant turnover loses its "freshmaking" after a year or two and becomes an albatross. I've always felt the concept works best as an element within other books, and maybe a miniseries or double-sized special, now and again.

[grendeljd]

Yeah I agree. I think the information overload has some people jumping to conclusions about cancellations and re-boots.

This is the way its worded in Newsrama

Valiant confirmed to Newsarama that Bloodshot and H.A.R.D. Corps is coming to an end as the mini-series takes its place, then other series will come into the fold.

Kind of strangely worded. I think its clear that Bloodshot and Hard Corps as a shared title is coming to an end - That is for certain. Whats not clear is what will happen after the mini-series is over. IMO, I think they will continue with Bloodshot's current numbering, I don't think they need to re-launch the character yet.

I agree. Also, remember Dysart saying he was trying to figure out with Valiant how many books he could juggle? It could be that Bloodshot becomes his second ongoing proper and Christos Gage gets HARDCorps...

Good call. Dysart taking the full reigns of Bloodshot would be awesome.

Gage on HARD Corps ongoing would make sense. But I do think they need to build up some more likable characters (besides Charlie) to make the book successful. The current cast is ok but disposable.

I'd argue Palmer, Lifeline and Kozol are all the main cast it needs, the rest can be changing. But I think allowing them full space to breathe would help with that anyway.

Agreed, and to the post before yours, I think having disposable characters is, while part of the book's style, both a blessing and, more importantly, a curse. I think the constant turnover loses its "freshmaking" after a year or two and becomes an albatross. I've always felt the concept works best as an element within other books, and maybe a miniseries or double-sized special, now and again.

Agree in general with the above points - I'd be happy to see Bloodshot go solo again, (I think he will & hope for a return to original numbering) and if Dysart was behind it, even better.

However, I can get behind Gage on HARD Corps as a series, but with a caveat or two. I think Xodacia is right about the disposable character concept happening with HC right now. I also find there aren't any characters I care about beyond Palmer & Lifeline (& it needs a Kozol type figure in place too).

I think they burned through too many of the original HC team members a little too quickly, even though it made sense within the story when they went up against opponents who outclassed them.

[hunter_peterson]

Yeah I agree. I think the information overload has some people jumping to conclusions about cancellations and re-boots.

This is the way its worded in Newsrama
Kind of strangely worded. I think its clear that Bloodshot and Hard Corps as a shared title is coming to an end - That is for certain. Whats not clear is what will happen after the mini-series is over. IMO, I think they will continue with Bloodshot's current numbering, I don't think they need to re-launch the character yet.

I agree. Also, remember Dysart saying he was trying to figure out with Valiant how many books he could juggle? It could be that Bloodshot becomes his second ongoing proper and Christos Gage gets HARDCorps...

Good call. Dysart taking the full reigns of Bloodshot would be awesome.

Gage on HARD Corps ongoing would make sense. But I do think they need to build up some more likable characters (besides Charlie) to make the book successful. The current cast is ok but disposable.

I'd argue Palmer, Lifeline and Kozol are all the main cast it needs, the rest can be changing. But I think allowing them full space to breathe would help with that anyway.

Agreed, and to the post before yours, I think having disposable characters is, while part of the book's style, both a blessing and, more importantly, a curse. I think the constant turnover loses its "freshmaking" after a year or two and becomes an albatross. I've always felt the concept works best as an element within other books, and maybe a miniseries or double-sized special, now and again.

Agree in general with the above points - I'd be happy to see Bloodshot go solo again, (I think he will & hope for a return to original numbering) and if Dysart was behind it, even better.

However, I can get behind Gage on HARD Corps as a series, but with a caveat or two. I think Xodacia is right about the disposable character concept happening with HC right now. I also find there aren't any characters I care about beyond Palmer & Lifeline (& it needs a Kozol type figure in place too).

I think they burned through too many of the original HC team members a little too quickly, even though it made sense within the story when they went up against opponents who outclassed them.

Yes, but if you view the new HARDCorps people as expendable supporting cast to Palmer, Lifeline and Kozol, then they work better. I think as long as there's a strong focus on those three it would work. The others are great for bringing extra drama to the book, and may be fan favorites, but either would graduate to the main cast or die.

[Phoenix8008]

I agree. Also, remember Dysart saying he was trying to figure out with Valiant how many books he could juggle? It could be that Bloodshot becomes his second ongoing proper and Christos Gage gets HARDCorps...

Good call. Dysart taking the full reigns of Bloodshot would be awesome.

Gage on HARD Corps ongoing would make sense. But I do think they need to build up some more likable characters (besides Charlie) to make the book successful. The current cast is ok but disposable.

I'd argue Palmer, Lifeline and Kozol are all the main cast it needs, the rest can be changing. But I think allowing them full space to breathe would help with that anyway.

Agreed, and to the post before yours, I think having disposable characters is, while part of the book's style, both a blessing and, more importantly, a curse. I think the constant turnover loses its "freshmaking" after a year or two and becomes an albatross. I've always felt the concept works best as an element within other books, and maybe a miniseries or double-sized special, now and again.

Agree in general with the above points - I'd be happy to see Bloodshot go solo again, (I think he will & hope for a return to original numbering) and if Dysart was behind it, even better.

However, I can get behind Gage on HARD Corps as a series, but with a caveat or two. I think Xodacia is right about the disposable character concept happening with HC right now. I also find there aren't any characters I care about beyond Palmer & Lifeline (& it needs a Kozol type figure in place too).

I think they burned through too many of the original HC team members a little too quickly, even though it made sense within the story when they went up against opponents who outclassed them.

Yes, but if you view the new HARDCorps people as expendable supporting cast to Palmer, Lifeline and Kozol, then they work better. I think as long as there's a strong focus on those three it would work. The others are great for bringing extra drama to the book, and may be fan favorites, but either would graduate to the main cast or die.

Very 'Strikeforce:Morituri' ish!

[grendeljd]

Good call. Dysart taking the full reigns of Bloodshot would be awesome.

Gage on HARD Corps ongoing would make sense. But I do think they need to build up some more likable characters (besides Charlie) to make the book successful. The current cast is ok but disposable.

I'd argue Palmer, Lifeline and Kozol are all the main cast it needs, the rest can be changing. But I think allowing them full space to breathe would help with that anyway.

Agreed, and to the post before yours, I think having disposable characters is, while part of the book's style, both a blessing and, more importantly, a curse. I think the constant turnover loses its "freshmaking" after a year or two and becomes an albatross. I've always felt the concept works best as an element within other books, and maybe a miniseries or double-sized special, now and again.

Agree in general with the above points - I'd be happy to see Bloodshot go solo again, (I think he will & hope for a return to original numbering) and if Dysart was behind it, even better.

However, I can get behind Gage on HARD Corps as a series, but with a caveat or two. I think Xodacia is right about the disposable character concept happening with HC right now. I also find there aren't any characters I care about beyond Palmer & Lifeline (& it needs a Kozol type figure in place too).

I think they burned through too many of the original HC team members a little too quickly, even though it made sense within the story when they went up against opponents who outclassed them.

Yes, but if you view the new HARDCorps people as expendable supporting cast to Palmer, Lifeline and Kozol, then they work better. I think as long as there's a strong focus on those three it would work. The others are great for bringing extra drama to the book, and may be fan favorites, but either would graduate to the main cast or die.

Very 'Strikeforce:Morituri' ish!

Yes, but it lacks the impact that series had [at least for me] - even with relatively quick deaths there was a ton of sympathy & tragedy built into the loss of each one of them. I haven't felt that in BS&HC yet, I have found its been a little too predictable & formulaic that a HARD Corps member is going to die. Not that Christos & Joshua are doing a bad job, but Peter B. Gillis was an incredible writer.

[hunter_peterson]

(I didn't quote because it's gotten rather gigantic.)

I see your point. All I can really say about that is that it's in the execution. I think if, for example, HARDCorps members sometimes retired, went rogue or rotated through tours of duty then them actually dying would be less common and therefore more impactful. But yeah. Of the current minor team members I only really care about Granite, and I kind of think that their effort to make me care marks her for death. So... yeah.

[xodacia81]

I've read the first few Strikeforce issues. Really good stuff.

[grendeljd]

I've read the first few Strikeforce issues. Really good stuff.

One of my all time favourite series [well, #1-20 anyway].

Of the original team of 6 appearing in #1, only three were still alive by #8 but you really felt the tragedy & power of every one of those deaths, and when three new members met the survivors in #8, you felt the contrast between the two groups, the fear & awe felt by the newcomers was palpable. It was great stuff.

But I digress

In all sincerity, I have been enjoying BS&HC overall & I am really glad that HARD Corps is around as part of a monthly series. I like that core idea that these guys are using moth-balled, outdated technology [with merely a passing attempt at being upgraded] & are being put in the line of fire of some serious heavy hitters, with serious consequences. Its just that we didn't even really get to know very many of the re-introduced original characters before they got offed. There was no major hook to feel something for them before they were gone. It was shocking at first to see them get killed off, but after the first few, it felt like a case of 'ok, who's going to buy it this issue?', and now there aren't very many options left to bring in more of the classic HC team members. Instead we have a really oddball group of unknowns. Which would also be fine, if we could get to know them enough before they get offed too!

[xodacia81]

No way they are cancelling Bloodshot. I agree, if anything they will seperate the two into seperate titles, which is cream cheese with me.

I'd rather see the story with Bloodshot leading the team simply end, and the HC become simply a strong element that show up and maybe get a miniseries or double size from time to time.

[xodacia81]

No way they are cancelling Bloodshot. I agree, if anything they will seperate the two into seperate titles, which is cream cheese with me.

I'd rather see the story with Bloodshot leading the team simply end, and the HC become simply a strong element that show up and maybe get a miniseries or double size from time to time.

That's kind of what I mean, Bloodshot will split from the group in search of his own past and the group itself will continue to follow the barking orders of PRS, but I would want an ongoing Hard Corps title to focus more on military-style team action. I think they are interesting enough to warrant their own title. I felt like Bloodshot was more interesting and visceral on his own; his title could be more Punisher/Wolverine lone cowboy style. I think the idea of him working for PRS when he tried so hard to initially escape it is going to come back as an issue again; Kozol is going to go "too far" and force Bloodshot to split again. Maybe he is just bidding time until his nanites get repaired....

I've never thought HC was strong enough to hold its own as an ongoing book. Love it but not 12 times a year.

[erwinrafael]

No way they are cancelling Bloodshot. I agree, if anything they will seperate the two into seperate titles, which is cream cheese with me.

I'd rather see the story with Bloodshot leading the team simply end, and the HC become simply a strong element that show up and maybe get a miniseries or double size from time to time.

And then let Duane return so that he could write the story he wanted to tell without editorial messing up his plans.

[dornwolf]

No way they are cancelling Bloodshot. I agree, if anything they will seperate the two into seperate titles, which is cream cheese with me.

I'd rather see the story with Bloodshot leading the team simply end, and the HC become simply a strong element that show up and maybe get a miniseries or double size from time to time.

And then let Duane return so that he could write the story he wanted to tell without editorial messing up his plans.

Was that the legit reason he left, editorial?

[lorddunlow]

No way they are cancelling Bloodshot. I agree, if anything they will seperate the two into seperate titles, which is cream cheese with me.

I'd rather see the story with Bloodshot leading the team simply end, and the HC become simply a strong element that show up and maybe get a miniseries or double size from time to time.

And then let Duane return so that he could write the story he wanted to tell without editorial messing up his plans.

Was that the legit reason he left, editorial?

The official story given was that he wanted to spend more time on his own stuff, namely his novels, so he left amicably and on his own terms. I think what erwinrafael was talking about was how his hands were tied in the Harbinger Wars to make sure Bloodshot tied in nicely with what Dysart was doing with Harbinger and Harbinger Wars.

[TheFallen]

I haven't really enjoyed Bloodshot since he started teaming up with HC so I would be glad if he went off to do his own thing again.

I really haven't warmed to HC and I feel that they are a weak link in an otherwise enjoyable universe. Keep in mind, I am new to Valiant since VEI so I am only basing my opinion on what I know. I couldn't see myself picking up a HC title.

[Chiclo]

I haven't really enjoyed Bloodshot since he started teaming up with HC so I would be glad if he went off to do his own thing again.

I really haven't warmed to HC and I feel that they are a weak link in an otherwise enjoyable universe. Keep in mind, I am new to Valiant since VEI so I am only basing my opinion on what I know. I couldn't see myself picking up a HC title.

I would disagree. Bloodshot and Shadowman were weak titles that were almost painful to keep up with. Valiant mixed both of them up and they are both much more enjoyable titles than they were. I really like reading about the Hard Corps and the book is a good fit.

[TheFallen]

I haven't really enjoyed Bloodshot since he started teaming up with HC so I would be glad if he went off to do his own thing again.

I really haven't warmed to HC and I feel that they are a weak link in an otherwise enjoyable universe. Keep in mind, I am new to Valiant since VEI so I am only basing my opinion on what I know. I couldn't see myself picking up a HC title.

I would disagree. Bloodshot and Shadowman were weak titles that were almost painful to keep up with. Valiant mixed both of them up and they are both much more enjoyable titles than they were. I really like reading about the Hard Corps and the book is a good fit.

I actually really enjoyed the early Bloodshot and Shadowman titles, they are what got me in to Valiant as a whole.

I like the concept of Hard Corps as it reminds me of the old Centurions cartoon and toys but I don't care for any of the HC characters. That is not to say that won't change but as it is now I'd rather just read about Bloodshot.

[xodacia81]

Secret Weapons and H.A.R.D. Corps were always two of my three least favorite series of the VH1 era, my least favorite being Psi-Lords. I don't think any of them were great enough, strong enough, to build an entire book around. If I have any complaints about VALIANT, it is that too many supporting concepts took center stage in their own book. I think VEI would be wise to have 8-12 regular ongoing books, with a mini or special from time to time.

XO Manowar
Bloodshot
Archer & Armstrong
Harbinger
Shadowman
Eternal Warrior
Q&W
Rai

That's a good core set right there. I know there are some changes. Which ones would I like to see? Well, we are already getting one. That's Dr. Mirage. So, which others?

Armorines. Gunny is a strong enough character. Some might not agree, and say HC is a similar series, but as great as Palmer is, I never felt compelled to read his story month in and month out the way I did with Gunny.

The remaining two? Who knows. Something all new, would be nice.

[bygranddesign]

Secret Weapons and H.A.R.D. Corps were always two of my three least favorite series of the VH1 era, my least favorite being Psi-Lords. I don't think any of them were great enough, strong enough, to build an entire book around. If I have any complaints about VALIANT, it is that too many supporting concepts took center stage in their own book. I think VEI would be wise to have 8-12 regular ongoing books, with a mini or special from time to time.

XO Manowar
Bloodshot
Archer & Armstrong
Harbinger
Shadowman
Eternal Warrior
Q&W
Rai

That's a good core set right there. I know there are some changes. Which ones would I like to see? Well, we are already getting one. That's Dr. Mirage. So, which others?

Armorines. Gunny is a strong enough character. Some might not agree, and say HC is a similar series, but as great as Palmer is, I never felt compelled to read his story month in and month out the way I did with Gunny.

The remaining two? Who knows. Something all new, would be nice.

Don't forgot Unity.

And Ivar and Ninjak I think are a must - they both have a lot of potential and both would bring something different to the table.

Other titles they should strongly consider at some point -
Livewire
Generation Zero
Darque Passages (probably would work as a mini-series)
Mary-Maria in her own title (trinity angels?)

And I think Armorines, Psi-Lords, Secret Weapons and Hard Corps with the right writer and with a new spin could be successful.

[xodacia81]

Secret Weapons and H.A.R.D. Corps were always two of my three least favorite series of the VH1 era, my least favorite being Psi-Lords. I don't think any of them were great enough, strong enough, to build an entire book around. If I have any complaints about VALIANT, it is that too many supporting concepts took center stage in their own book. I think VEI would be wise to have 8-12 regular ongoing books, with a mini or special from time to time.

XO Manowar
Bloodshot
Archer & Armstrong
Harbinger
Shadowman
Eternal Warrior
Q&W
Rai

That's a good core set right there. I know there are some changes. Which ones would I like to see? Well, we are already getting one. That's Dr. Mirage. So, which others?

Armorines. Gunny is a strong enough character. Some might not agree, and say HC is a similar series, but as great as Palmer is, I never felt compelled to read his story month in and month out the way I did with Gunny.

The remaining two? Who knows. Something all new, would be nice.

Don't forgot Unity.

And Ivar and Ninjak I think are a must - they both have a lot of potential and both would bring something different to the table.

Other titles they should strongly consider at some point -
Livewire
Generation Zero
Darque Passages (probably would work as a mini-series)
Mary-Maria in her own title (trinity angels?)

And I think Armorines, Psi-Lords and Hard Corps with the right writer and with a new spin could be successful.

Yep, I did overlook Unity. My bad. As for Psi and Hard, I remain unconvinced that they will succeed. They didn't work the first time around, and the HC isn't working well this time around, either. It's not a bad concept, just not strong enough to be front and center in a solo title.

[Aomalle27]

I love Hardcore, though I do think a split from Bliodshot would be beneficial. As for a solo title, I dunno, but maybe a couple of shared books would be good. Maybe a dual Armorines and Hardcorps, with arcs alternating between the Armorines, and Hardcorps. Not thrilled with a Ninjak solo, but think some one shots in Unity, with maybe a Ninjak standalone arc wouldn't be bad. Would love to see a return of Secret Weapons, but I'm in the minority on that one