Hello, Rai

[Newton]

How soon until Rai #0?

[xodacia81]

How soon until Rai #0?

Almost 2000 years...

[Heath]

I'm loving what I've seen of the new Rai so far. The teased artwork looks incredible. Kindt's approach, to fully know the city, the people in it, the government, etc. - make the city as much a character as Rai - and then move Rai around in it is sort of what should have been done with Shadowman and New Orleans.

When I first saw the Rai #1 cover, I immediately thought of the Bleeding Monk more so than the Rising Sun flag. And I agree that we should wait to see its context in the world of Rai before we rush to judgment. I am also reminded of the character Captain Confederacy. Something you could easily look at and dismiss as being racist or glorifying slavery in the Confederate south, but if you actually read it would see that couldn't be farther from the truth.

[lorddunlow]

I'm loving what I've seen of the new Rai so far. The teased artwork looks incredible. Kindt's approach, to fully know the city, the people in it, the government, etc. - make the city as much a character as Rai - and then move Rai around in it is sort of what should have been done with Shadowman and New Orleans.

When I first saw the Rai #1 cover, I immediately thought of the Bleeding Monk more so than the Rising Sun flag. And I agree that we should wait to see its context in the world of Rai before we rush to judgment. I am also reminded of the character Captain Confederacy. Something you could easily look at and dismiss as being racist or glorifying slavery in the Confederate south, but if you actually read it would see that couldn't be farther from the truth.

Why read something and judge it on its merit when it is so much easier to make a big deal about it by LITERALLY judging a book by its cover?

[tarheelmarine]

It occurs to me I may sound more aggressive than I mean to because WRITTEN. So just going to say no ill-will at all! Hope you enjoy this book as much as I will!

No worries, this is a good site because all us can discuss issues without losing our minds.

I am looking forward to this new series. You can tell I don't care for the cover I posted, but I am looking forward to seeing the other covers for #1. I've seen a few in this thread so far, but if anyone has links please post.

[lorddunlow]

I am more excited for this book than I was for the actual Valiant resurrection with X-O #1.

I'm as giddy as a schoolgirl.

[bygranddesign]

Why read something and judge it on its merit when it is so much easier to make a big deal about it by LITERALLY judging a book by its cover?

+1

First off, Bernard Chang's premise is that Rai is some typical super hero and as we know valiant "heroes" are not typical. They are extremely flawed and sometime outright wrong headed (Aric).

This is a story taking place 2000 years in the future and Rai is the guardian of what we might assume is an oppressive, possibly imperialistic City-State of Japan ruled by a mysterious character called "Father"

In the words of Matt Kindt:

It's a part of a story that's slowly going to unfold. He definitely has questions about who he is, where he came from. He starts out as this protector of Japan and as the series goes on, he's going to have doubts about Father and Japan and what he's really doing. He'll be learning along with us.

This is what makes good storytelling - seeing the protagonist realize the error in his ways and tries to create a better path. I trust in Matt Kindt and Valiant and I'm sure the intent is not to offend but to create an engaging and compelling story that is rooted in the history of japan(the good and the bad).

I want Valiant to be bold. To be Different. To be cutting edge in the realm of "Superhero" comics.

[tarheelmarine]

Someone posted a portion of this cover earlier, here is the full version:



This is a cool cover.

Hoping it is not a variant that is impossible to get.

[hunter_peterson]

Totally agree with the comments of the Beyonder and Shadowman99. People go overboard with being offended. Everything is going to offend someone. I seriously think China's current policies affecting their own people is much more offensive than Japan's flag.

According to the anthropology and sociology department at my school, that's impossible, on the basis of one being a "crude capitalistic venture" and the other being a "shining beacon of pure communism written of in a negative light by imperialist American swine." Then after statements like that, the profs wonder why every other department sees them as a joke.

As a sociology major who only has an unrelated minor left before doing honors, whoever said that is an idiot. China isn't even really socialist and any use of "communism" in relation to a state is incorrect anyway, because that was what Marx said would come after socialism and was left incredibly I'll-defined. So they really buy into the propaganda of the countries that claimed to be communist but were just dictatorships... again... idiotic.

[xodacia81]

Totally agree with the comments of the Beyonder and Shadowman99. People go overboard with being offended. Everything is going to offend someone. I seriously think China's current policies affecting their own people is much more offensive than Japan's flag.

According to the anthropology and sociology department at my school, that's impossible, on the basis of one being a "crude capitalistic venture" and the other being a "shining beacon of pure communism written of in a negative light by imperialist American swine." Then after statements like that, the profs wonder why every other department sees them as a joke.

As a sociology major who only has an unrelated minor left before doing honors, whoever said that is an idiot. China isn't even really socialist and any use of "communism" in relation to a state is incorrect anyway, because that was what Marx said would come after socialism and was left incredibly I'll-defined. So they really buy into the propaganda of the countries that claimed to be communist but were just dictatorships... again... idiotic.

Yep, which is why it is both frustrating and frightening that these fools are "teaching" people this line of thinking. Not surprising when one considers that the "prof" most in question was under FBI watch in the 70s after going to Cuba with Angela Davis, and then fled to France for 20 years. Same lady told a girl that she wasn't raped because of who did it. Teaches that HATE has a color. Luckily, she was recently forced into a permanent retirement. As somebody who has a masters in Social Sciences, with a focus on social theory, her "teaching" methods are horrifying. She is an odious enough person to, in my darker moments, color my perception of sociological theory and anthropology. I have to remind myself she's a nutter in a department full of alcholic nutters.

[hunter_peterson]

Totally agree with the comments of the Beyonder and Shadowman99. People go overboard with being offended. Everything is going to offend someone. I seriously think China's current policies affecting their own people is much more offensive than Japan's flag.

What China is doing is really nothing compared to what Imperialistic Japan did in the '30s and '40s, much of that in China. Much of it worse than what the Nazis did in Europe. Symbols are powerful.

But like I said, if it's part of a story and something Rai rebels against then that's just not that big of a deal. If it was just a character design that somebody thought looked cool, then that kinda sucks.

Anyway, cool discussion!

Yeah, because the US didn't do anything bad in that time period. Oh wait, we leveled two civilian centers as an act of terrorism. The second just to fake everyone out into thinking we had an inexhaustible supply of this terrifying weapon when we barely had enough raw radioactive material to scrape together the three bombs we made (one for testing). This conversation is ridiculous. You cannot make an argument that the Rising Sun is offensive without saying the American flag is equally offensive, or almost any nation's symbolism. I posit that they are just symbols and if someone is offended, I don't care. You can't do anything anymore without someone "getting offended".

To be honest, I've lost a lot of respect for Bernard Chang if he really did photoshop a swastika on X-O. Why is that acceptable? It's ridiculous. I'm offended by what most countries do every day. It's a waste of time to "be offended" and let everyone know about it.

I remember reading the Politically Correct Fairy Tales in the 90s and watching PCU and those being humorous because they took the PC mentality to absurd levels. Those things aren't as funny anymore because the current world is 10 times more absurd. It's ridiculous.

Agreed. No country is innocent. To try and take moral high ground is a losing proposition. I've said for years, you don't have the right to not be offended.

It's more absurd because the rising sun symbol has been associated with Japan for thousands of years, during which there were many, many wars between them and the surrounding nations that ended with different sides winning or losing again and again. To act like the WWII atrocities are anything other than a continuation of a shared history of mutual contempt and violence is just narrow-minded. So not only is the symbol not specifically tied to that conflict, war crimes between the different nations aren't either and go both ways.

But then, I find overly political correct stuff to be completely stupid. If something offends you but doesn't actively harm you, ignore it.

[hunter_peterson]

Totally agree with the comments of the Beyonder and Shadowman99. People go overboard with being offended. Everything is going to offend someone. I seriously think China's current policies affecting their own people is much more offensive than Japan's flag.

According to the anthropology and sociology department at my school, that's impossible, on the basis of one being a "crude capitalistic venture" and the other being a "shining beacon of pure communism written of in a negative light by imperialist American swine." Then after statements like that, the profs wonder why every other department sees them as a joke.

As a sociology major who only has an unrelated minor left before doing honors, whoever said that is an idiot. China isn't even really socialist and any use of "communism" in relation to a state is incorrect anyway, because that was what Marx said would come after socialism and was left incredibly I'll-defined. So they really buy into the propaganda of the countries that claimed to be communist but were just dictatorships... again... idiotic.

Yep, which is why it is both frustrating and frightening that these fools are "teaching" people this line of thinking. Not surprising when one considers that the "prof" most in question was under FBI watch in the 70s after going to Cuba with Angela Davis, and then fled to France for 20 years. Same lady told a girl that she wasn't raped because of who did it. Teaches that HATE has a color. Luckily, she was recently forced into a permanent retirement. As somebody who has a masters in Social Sciences, with a focus on social theory, her "teaching" methods are horrifying. She is an odious enough person to, in my darker moments, color my perception of sociological theory and anthropology. I have to remind myself she's a nutter in a department full of alcholic nutters.

That would make me put in complaints to her superiors, maybe even put together a petition. That *SQUEE* can't stand, man. Not the communist sympathies, though she was clearly an extremist and had no place in education because no extremist of any kind does, but the rape shaming thing. Terrible.

[hunter_peterson]

It occurs to me I may sound more aggressive than I mean to because WRITTEN. So just going to say no ill-will at all! Hope you enjoy this book as much as I will!

No worries, this is a good site because all us can discuss issues without losing our minds.

I am looking forward to this new series. You can tell I don't care for the cover I posted, but I am looking forward to seeing the other covers for #1. I've seen a few in this thread so far, but if anyone has links please post.

The covers are awesome! And while I'm arguing that the symbol isn't such a big deal, I do hope that they use the opportunity to condemn the same negatives that some people attach to it in an allegorical way. The champion of a resurgent Imperial Japan in the future rebelling against the imperialist methods of that nation would be a powerful social commentary on it.

And I do like how even though the board members here disagree a lot, they do it with class. Thumbs up to all!

[xodacia81]

Totally agree with the comments of the Beyonder and Shadowman99. People go overboard with being offended. Everything is going to offend someone. I seriously think China's current policies affecting their own people is much more offensive than Japan's flag.

According to the anthropology and sociology department at my school, that's impossible, on the basis of one being a "crude capitalistic venture" and the other being a "shining beacon of pure communism written of in a negative light by imperialist American swine." Then after statements like that, the profs wonder why every other department sees them as a joke.

As a sociology major who only has an unrelated minor left before doing honors, whoever said that is an idiot. China isn't even really socialist and any use of "communism" in relation to a state is incorrect anyway, because that was what Marx said would come after socialism and was left incredibly I'll-defined. So they really buy into the propaganda of the countries that claimed to be communist but were just dictatorships... again... idiotic.

Yep, which is why it is both frustrating and frightening that these fools are "teaching" people this line of thinking. Not surprising when one considers that the "prof" most in question was under FBI watch in the 70s after going to Cuba with Angela Davis, and then fled to France for 20 years. Same lady told a girl that she wasn't raped because of who did it. Teaches that HATE has a color. Luckily, she was recently forced into a permanent retirement. As somebody who has a masters in Social Sciences, with a focus on social theory, her "teaching" methods are horrifying. She is an odious enough person to, in my darker moments, color my perception of sociological theory and anthropology. I have to remind myself she's a nutter in a department full of alcholic nutters.

That would make me put in complaints to her superiors, maybe even put together a petition. That *SQUEE* can't stand, man. Not the communist sympathies, though she was clearly an extremist and had no place in education because no extremist of any kind does, but the rape shaming thing. Terrible.

She wouldn't understand it as rape shaming. As a feminist, she believes herself immune. Instead, she saw herself as "explaining" to the victim how it was not rape because the men who did it were not the same color and as such, has no social power and so could not be guilty of rape, which is about power. She's crazy and was complained about and has been forced out. Thank god.

[xodacia81]

It occurs to me I may sound more aggressive than I mean to because WRITTEN. So just going to say no ill-will at all! Hope you enjoy this book as much as I will!

No worries, this is a good site because all us can discuss issues without losing our minds.

I am looking forward to this new series. You can tell I don't care for the cover I posted, but I am looking forward to seeing the other covers for #1. I've seen a few in this thread so far, but if anyone has links please post.

The covers are awesome! And while I'm arguing that the symbol isn't such a big deal, I do hope that they use the opportunity to condemn the same negatives that some people attach to it in an allegorical way. The champion of a resurgent Imperial Japan in the future rebelling against the imperialist methods of that nation would be a powerful social commentary on it.

And I do like how even though the board members here disagree a lot, they do it with class. Thumbs up to all!

Love the rai covers so far but...the originals were art you'd want to hang. So far, these are really really nice covers.

[MarrowMan]

Someone posted a portion of this cover earlier, here is the full version:



This is a cool cover.

Hoping it is not a variant that is impossible to get.

Actually I posted the whole cover on the previous page, but no one noticed.

[lorddunlow]

Someone posted a portion of this cover earlier, here is the full version:



This is a cool cover.

Hoping it is not a variant that is impossible to get.

Actually I posted the whole cover on the previous page, but no one noticed.

I ignore most Canadian posts.

[BugsySig]

I'll admit I started glossing over a lot of the "Rising Sun" flag posts, so if my comments repeat anything that's already been said I apologize in advance...

1. I don't love the design, but I do like it. I am guessing VEI chose it (other designs by Crain were posted somewhere) in order to differentiate Rai from Bloodshot more so than the original designs.

2. Rai was always related to "Rising Spirit" and "Rising Son" in his original incarnation. It makes sense to have the "Rising Sun" symbol represent him.

3. I don't really care how other groups feel about the symbol and neither should VEI. No one seems to have a problem with heroes draped in the American Flag despite how other countries might view it. It should only matter, IMHO, if the Japanese are offended by it. And if that is the case, then VEI should reconsider.

At the opening ceremonies at Sochi, there was a large segment devoted to Russia's communist history. Were other countries like Ukraine, Lithuania and others made uncomfortable by that? Probably. But it was part of Russia's history and they have accepted that and moved on. If that wasn't the case, I doubt they would have included it.

Have we actually heard from anyone of Japanese decent on the issue?

[Paradigm38]

I have waited far too long.... welcome back, Rai! And... I am digging the damascus blade cover *SWEET*

[bygranddesign]

3. I don't really care how other groups feel about the symbol and neither should VEI. No one seems to have a problem with heroes draped in the American Flag despite how other countries might view it. It should only matter, IMHO, if the Japanese are offended by it. And if that is the case, then VEI should reconsider.

Have we actually heard from anyone of Japanese decent on the issue?

There might be Japanese that are offended by it ... But it's mostly the Chinese and South Koreans who normally take offense because it represents for them Japanese imperialism and their conquest and occupation of east Asia.

But the flag has a rich history beyond imperialism.

I'm sure Kindt, Crain and Valiant understand the history of the symbol and the fact that many might be offended but since Rai is the guardian of what looks to be an oppressive imperialistic future Japan the symbol is probably fitting. But as Kindt stated in an interview we will see Rai grow and question his role and forge a new path. Maybe he'll shed the symbol at some point.

[jmatt]

Totally agree with the comments of the Beyonder and Shadowman99. People go overboard with being offended. Everything is going to offend someone. I seriously think China's current policies affecting their own people is much more offensive than Japan's flag.

Finally. A political argument thread I didn't start.

[lorddunlow]

Totally agree with the comments of the Beyonder and Shadowman99. People go overboard with being offended. Everything is going to offend someone. I seriously think China's current policies affecting their own people is much more offensive than Japan's flag.

Finally. A political argument thread I didn't start.

I thought I'd do you a solid this time.

[TheFallen]

I haven't been keeping up with my reading (except on Bloodshot) but I have been keeping up with the Valiant news on Facebook and I was very happy to see Rai finally coming.

I absolutely love the new design, regardless of the controversy it has stirred up. Clayton Crain on art just makes it even better. I don't believe I have read anything by Matt Kindt but he seems to have a lot of praise in the posts here.

Anyway, I can't wait for Rai and it is great to see Valiant going strong.

[hunter_peterson]

Totally agree with the comments of the Beyonder and Shadowman99. People go overboard with being offended. Everything is going to offend someone. I seriously think China's current policies affecting their own people is much more offensive than Japan's flag.

According to the anthropology and sociology department at my school, that's impossible, on the basis of one being a "crude capitalistic venture" and the other being a "shining beacon of pure communism written of in a negative light by imperialist American swine." Then after statements like that, the profs wonder why every other department sees them as a joke.

As a sociology major who only has an unrelated minor left before doing honors, whoever said that is an idiot. China isn't even really socialist and any use of "communism" in relation to a state is incorrect anyway, because that was what Marx said would come after socialism and was left incredibly I'll-defined. So they really buy into the propaganda of the countries that claimed to be communist but were just dictatorships... again... idiotic.

Yep, which is why it is both frustrating and frightening that these fools are "teaching" people this line of thinking. Not surprising when one considers that the "prof" most in question was under FBI watch in the 70s after going to Cuba with Angela Davis, and then fled to France for 20 years. Same lady told a girl that she wasn't raped because of who did it. Teaches that HATE has a color. Luckily, she was recently forced into a permanent retirement. As somebody who has a masters in Social Sciences, with a focus on social theory, her "teaching" methods are horrifying. She is an odious enough person to, in my darker moments, color my perception of sociological theory and anthropology. I have to remind myself she's a nutter in a department full of alcholic nutters.

That would make me put in complaints to her superiors, maybe even put together a petition. That *SQUEE* can't stand, man. Not the communist sympathies, though she was clearly an extremist and had no place in education because no extremist of any kind does, but the rape shaming thing. Terrible.

She wouldn't understand it as rape shaming. As a feminist, she believes herself immune. Instead, she saw herself as "explaining" to the victim how it was not rape because the men who did it were not the same color and as such, has no social power and so could not be guilty of rape, which is about power. She's crazy and was complained about and has been forced out. Thank god.

I'm a feminist and I want to cut that woman.

[kjjohanson]

I was unaware of any controversy about the Rising Sun flag, but having now read up on it a little, have a few comments about what people are commenting here.

There is some grumbling online about the Rising Sun symbol on Rai's chest ... VEI might want to rethink that.

I don't understand hating the Japanese. They are a delightful people. It would be like saying all Germans are Nazis.

The problem isn't the Japanese of now but the Japanese of then. Japan wasn't the nicest of countries in WWII towards Korea and China. No different than the German comment, older Jews would probably still be leery of Germany despite not being Nazis anymore. Resentment and anger run deep especially in Japan's case as they apparently we're never taken to task over their treatment of Koreans and Chinese

The same could be said about the US about a great many things - slavery, genocide of the Native American population, Japanese concentration camps, the annihilation of two civilian population centers in Japan. As I said, it's as stupid as blaming today's Germans for the atrocities of Hitler.

The difference I see between the Rising Sun and the Union Jack or American flag is that its use was largely discontinued internationally after WW2, so for many what happened then is going to be the lasting connection. In that way it's more similar to the use of the Nazi flag.

Dunlow is right- the crimes of long ago aren't offensive in the present. Most of the people involved are dead. The symbol in question is ancient. Seems like getting upset over something incredibly unimportant.

Whether something is offensive (or important) is subjective. If you're not offended, then it's not offensive to you. That doesn't mean that it's not offensive to others. If one person found it offensive, then I think it would be fair to say that maybe it's that person's problem. If a larger, not unsubstantial group finds it offensive, I think that needs some consideration.

But like I said, if it's part of a story and something Rai rebels against then that's just not that big of a deal. If it was just a character design that somebody thought looked cool, then that kinda sucks.

This is a story taking place 2000 years in the future and Rai is the guardian of what we might assume is an oppressive, possibly imperialistic City-State of Japan ruled by a mysterious character called "Father"

In the words of Matt Kindt:

It's a part of a story that's slowly going to unfold. He definitely has questions about who he is, where he came from. He starts out as this protector of Japan and as the series goes on, he's going to have doubts about Father and Japan and what he's really doing. He'll be learning along with us.

This is what makes good storytelling - seeing the protagonist realize the error in his ways and tries to create a better path. I trust in Matt Kindt and Valiant and I'm sure the intent is not to offend but to create an engaging and compelling story that is rooted in the history of japan(the good and the bad).

Largely what this issue comes down to is how the symbol is used. If, as some are suggesting, that the Japan of the future is imperialistic, and Rai makes the decision to rebel against that, I don't see an issue. If, however, Rai accepts that the status quo is for the best, I think that's much more problematic. That implies an endorsement of the actions that occurred under that flag.