USA TODAY: Death Comes to Valiant Comics Harbinger Series

[Scarlet-Batman]

Great, why surprise us? So Valiant will be taking the Marvel and DC route of spoiling everything in their books months in advance? Why can't a character just die? Why do we need an entire arc with a title telling us someone will die? So we shouldn't worry for any major Valiant hero unless the title of the arc explicitly tells us they are dying?

Advertising a big death generates buzz which translates into larger orders, more awareness and, hopefully, new/lapsed readers.

[leonmallett]

The cover looks a little off to me. The silhouettes look like quick image manipulation, so the glow could be an artifact of that.

Could be that the silhouettes are actually drawn figures just blacked out, or it could be that things will be changed before going to print (we saw that with Bloodshot and HARDCorps for example).

[ThatDarnCabbage]

Great, why surprise us? So Valiant will be taking the Marvel and DC route of spoiling everything in their books months in advance? Why can't a character just die? Why do we need an entire arc with a title telling us someone will die? So we shouldn't worry for any major Valiant hero unless the title of the arc explicitly tells us they are dying?

Advertising a big death generates buzz which translates into larger orders, more awareness and, hopefully, new/lapsed readers.

I absolutely understand that, but it makes the death feel so gimmicky. I don't want story or surprise sacrificed for advertising. Image doesn't have to resort to stuff like this to generate buzz and higher sales for their books, they just put out great stories by great creators. Why does being a part of a shared universe have to make it feel like it has less artistic integrity? Harbinger is my favorite valiant book so I'm sure the story will be a great one, I just can't help but feel that they don't have to resort to tactics like this. Hell, look a Walking Dead. Although I realize that book is an anomaly within comics.

[Shadowman99]

I'm psyched to see this.

Harbinger's started to feel a little bit... Well, I'm glad it's 'gloves off' time, to put it one way. All these fights and none of the main characters have really suffered any significant damage, despite the uber-powerful powers and abilities involved. Hell, peter's lucky he only got a gun butt in the face and broken jaw from Bloodshot in the HW. At the time I was surprised Bloodshot didn't just put a bullet in his head, which would have made more sense. See what I mean? So I'm glad it's time for a non-fodder character to meet their maker.

I'm afraid I can't really trust the covers or the characters featured/not featured on them. Based on VEI's trend of using non-relative covers, I don't think anything can be garnered from them. Which is probably just as well, we'd hate for the surprise to be ruined now wouldn't we?

Valiant have never gone as balls-out as I've hoped for them to go so far, so I think they'll still play it relatively safe on this one. My thoughts:

Khris: Ax is an easy replacement for Khris as tactical leader of the group
Flamingo: Easily disposed of due to underdeveloped character and potentially less influential future role
Ax: Used as a plot device to 'out' Harada, and then disposed of
Animalia/Torque: Basically replicated powerset here, so one of them can be disposed of

Those are my predictions for most likely death. But I don't really care who dies.

[dmezynski]

I hope Flamingo doesn't die. I've always thought she had a lot of potential as a character. Faith as a lot of potential as well, but if she does die (like others have said) it would have a more dramatic effect. It wouldn't be roleplaying superhero anymore, it would be real world stuff.

But I don't want any of them to die

[Tannerman]

Comment from Dysart in the Valiant Comics Fan Facebook Group, responding to comments about VEI using more "gimmicky" things like this arc involving a death:

I'll be honest with you. At the level Valiant is now playing, and with the amount of money they've invested in these properties, they have to do whatever it takes to sell books. Quality and readership loyalty totally sells books. But, sadly, so does multiple covers, crossovers, character deaths and narratives driven by marketing. Right now part of the energy of Harbinger that everyone likes is, in part, because every single arc has to have a marketing hook. I had hoped that at some point the numbers on our book would've gotten to the place where we could've relaxed and just told good stories well and each issue didn't have to be a huge event or built around a news worthy headline. But that's just not the case. Harbinger has received a lot of critical acclaim, but it isn't very strong in sales. So now the mission becomes to take those creative choices that are, unquestionably, designed as marketing hooks and execute them in the best way possible and hope that readers come. But at the end of the day, I just want to be proud of the work, whatever the engine was for the creative decisions. And Valiant may be doing what other publishers have to do to survive, but they've never backed me so far into a corner that I didn't get to work in my own voice, and I am very, very, very proud of what we've done with Harbinger. Regardless of compromises.

[lorddunlow]

That's very interesting.

[Keith]

Hmmm... Dysart's comments don't exactly inspire confidence.

[lorddunlow]

Hmmm... Dysart's comments don't exactly inspire confidence.

I used "interesting", but you could replace that with what you said. I was being nice.

[BugsySig]

Hmmm... Dysart's comments don't exactly inspire confidence.

He's just telling the truth. VEI right now needs every arc of every book to be an event until they get to a point where the books can stand on their own sales wise. Quite frankly, if they didn't/hadn't done this, they may have gone belly up already. But this system has continued to bring in new readers and maintain current ones, even as the books experience the normal attrition due to time, budgets and trade waiting.

[lorddunlow]

Hmmm... Dysart's comments don't exactly inspire confidence.

He's just telling the truth. VEI right now needs every arc of every book to be an event until they get to a point where the books can stand on their own sales wise. Quite frankly, if they didn't/hadn't done this, they may have gone belly up already. But this system has continued to bring in new readers and maintain current ones, even as the books experience the normal attrition due to time, budgets and trade waiting.

My concern is that he doesn't seem too happy. Almost apologetic. If this is what he's willing to share on Facebook, then I'm sure his own personal feelings are quite a bit stronger.

[comicsyte95]

Hmmm... Dysart's comments don't exactly inspire confidence.

He's just telling the truth. VEI right now needs every arc of every book to be an event until they get to a point where the books can stand on their own sales wise. Quite frankly, if they didn't/hadn't done this, they may have gone belly up already. But this system has continued to bring in new readers and maintain current ones, even as the books experience the normal attrition due to time, budgets and trade waiting.

I would definetly prefer a character death if it got readership up.If they don't sell enough after all we lose good stories.

[Phoenix8008]

Comment from Dysart in the Valiant Comics Fan Facebook Group, responding to comments about VEI using more "gimmicky" things like this arc involving a death:

I'll be honest with you. At the level Valiant is now playing, and with the amount of money they've invested in these properties, they have to do whatever it takes to sell books. Quality and readership loyalty totally sells books. But, sadly, so does multiple covers, crossovers, character deaths and narratives driven by marketing. Right now part of the energy of Harbinger that everyone likes is, in part, because every single arc has to have a marketing hook. I had hoped that at some point the numbers on our book would've gotten to the place where we could've relaxed and just told good stories well and each issue didn't have to be a huge event or built around a news worthy headline. But that's just not the case. Harbinger has received a lot of critical acclaim, but it isn't very strong in sales. So now the mission becomes to take those creative choices that are, unquestionably, designed as marketing hooks and execute them in the best way possible and hope that readers come. But at the end of the day, I just want to be proud of the work, whatever the engine was for the creative decisions. And Valiant may be doing what other publishers have to do to survive, but they've never backed me so far into a corner that I didn't get to work in my own voice, and I am very, very, very proud of what we've done with Harbinger. Regardless of compromises.

Well, that explains a few things. They're doing well enough to keep going, but not well enough to do without the gimmick stuff to keep pushing the sales. Makes sense.

[BugsySig]

Hmmm... Dysart's comments don't exactly inspire confidence.

He's just telling the truth. VEI right now needs every arc of every book to be an event until they get to a point where the books can stand on their own sales wise. Quite frankly, if they didn't/hadn't done this, they may have gone belly up already. But this system has continued to bring in new readers and maintain current ones, even as the books experience the normal attrition due to time, budgets and trade waiting.

My concern is that he doesn't seem too happy. Almost apologetic. If this is what he's willing to share on Facebook, then I'm sure his own personal feelings are quite a bit stronger.

Fair enough, but thats what happens when you sign on to a company. At least he has a lot of freedom within the story and any editorial mandates unlike so many who have passed through DC lately, for example.

Also, its not like this will be the first character death at the new VALIANT. Hammerhead, Shakespeare and Maniac, Pulse, multiple Gen Zero and PRS escapee children, many HGC students (including Hidden Moon and Saturn) and the "first" Unity team, and Superstar from HARD Corps have all been killed off. While none would be considered "major" character, none of their deaths were used as "gimmicks," and occured naturally as part of the story. Most of whom died at the pen of Dysart btw, so it wouldnt surprise me if he simply doesn't like the Harby death being used as a sales tool, or perhaps he is killing off a character a little before he would have otherwise liked. But it also wouldn't surprise me if he always planned on killing off one of the gang at some point.

[dornwolf]

Hmmm... Dysart's comments don't exactly inspire confidence.

He's just telling the truth. VEI right now needs every arc of every book to be an event until they get to a point where the books can stand on their own sales wise. Quite frankly, if they didn't/hadn't done this, they may have gone belly up already. But this system has continued to bring in new readers and maintain current ones, even as the books experience the normal attrition due to time, budgets and trade waiting.

and he's being honest and yet a company man at the same time which is refreshing. He acknowledges that yes it's disappointing that it must be done admits he doesn't like it but does his best to work with it. The only other writer that I've ever seen be that open recently is Hickman and he's no where near as sutle with what he says.

[ThatDarnCabbage]

Hmmm... Dysart's comments don't exactly inspire confidence.

I used "interesting", but you could replace that with what you said. I was being nice.

I agree, I appreciate his honesty, and I still love the comic itself, but it's sad to see. Can't help but lose a bit of confidence in the company. I know it's not their fault, and I know it's what they think it's what they have to do to survive, so I do understand it. But I can't help but feel this way. He makes it sound that each arc is developed as a marketing ploy first, then they try and make it a good story after. I could be wrong there but still, sad to hear this.

[AnthonyF]

Animalia...

Ditto

But I think there's a strong possibly its going to be Faith, that would be a nice twist.
Lets see renegades become the team Faith believes they can be.

[AnthonyF]

wow ..well if we took that cover at face value it would be animalia or @x since the original renegades are all represented there.

but that might be a head fake

Hm, well lets consider VEI's record when it comes to covers and stories matching...

[Aram]

It should be pete with a second life of dr mirage twist that eventually leads to him regaining form ala chaos effect. problems solved, he'd dead.. But still around and has to focus and suck up necromantic energy to remain solid.

[leonmallett]

It should be pete with a second life of dr mirage twist that eventually leads to him regaining form ala chaos effect. problems solved, he'd dead.. But still around and has to focus and suck up necromantic energy to remain solid.

As much as I don't expect that, I like the idea. Have Kris as his Carmen! Spin off their own book.

Except those two wouldn't really scream out romantic comedy duo...

[etos45]

Assuming the Faith mentioned in A&A is Harby Faith, I'm going to guess that Flamingo dies and that's why Archer gets with Faith now. I see Flamingo as, sadly, being the most replaceable character.

I'm hoping they don't do a cop-out and kill a second tier character like Ax. I kind of feel you can only tease a Harby death so many times before it loses meaning.

Also, for me, killing Pete is a deal breaker. It ruined the original Harbinger with what happened in #25 and it will do the same here.

[Aram]

It should be pete with a second life of dr mirage twist that eventually leads to him regaining form ala chaos effect. problems solved, he'd dead.. But still around and has to focus and suck up necromantic energy to remain solid.

As much as I don't expect that, I like the idea. Have Kris as his Carmen! Spin off their own book.

Except those two wouldn't really scream out romantic comedy duo...

Which is why you have the new comic duo book the "Archies" starring Archer and Faith!

[Phoenix8008]

It should be pete with a second life of dr mirage twist that eventually leads to him regaining form ala chaos effect. problems solved, he'd dead.. But still around and has to focus and suck up necromantic energy to remain solid.

As much as I don't expect that, I like the idea. Have Kris as his Carmen! Spin off their own book.

Except those two wouldn't really scream out romantic comedy duo...

Which is why you have the new comic duo book the "Archies" starring Archer and Faith!

Leaving Aram free to run around with Mary Maria, and you can still call that title Archer & Armstrong!

[swtor1091]

Comment from Dysart in the Valiant Comics Fan Facebook Group, responding to comments about VEI using more "gimmicky" things like this arc involving a death:

I'll be honest with you. At the level Valiant is now playing, and with the amount of money they've invested in these properties, they have to do whatever it takes to sell books. Quality and readership loyalty totally sells books. But, sadly, so does multiple covers, crossovers, character deaths and narratives driven by marketing. Right now part of the energy of Harbinger that everyone likes is, in part, because every single arc has to have a marketing hook. I had hoped that at some point the numbers on our book would've gotten to the place where we could've relaxed and just told good stories well and each issue didn't have to be a huge event or built around a news worthy headline. But that's just not the case. Harbinger has received a lot of critical acclaim, but it isn't very strong in sales. So now the mission becomes to take those creative choices that are, unquestionably, designed as marketing hooks and execute them in the best way possible and hope that readers come. But at the end of the day, I just want to be proud of the work, whatever the engine was for the creative decisions. And Valiant may be doing what other publishers have to do to survive, but they've never backed me so far into a corner that I didn't get to work in my own voice, and I am very, very, very proud of what we've done with Harbinger. Regardless of compromises.

So because I worry because I love Valiant and I can't stop thinking about it... does this mean Valiant is in trouble?

[lorddunlow]

Comment from Dysart in the Valiant Comics Fan Facebook Group, responding to comments about VEI using more "gimmicky" things like this arc involving a death:

I'll be honest with you. At the level Valiant is now playing, and with the amount of money they've invested in these properties, they have to do whatever it takes to sell books. Quality and readership loyalty totally sells books. But, sadly, so does multiple covers, crossovers, character deaths and narratives driven by marketing. Right now part of the energy of Harbinger that everyone likes is, in part, because every single arc has to have a marketing hook. I had hoped that at some point the numbers on our book would've gotten to the place where we could've relaxed and just told good stories well and each issue didn't have to be a huge event or built around a news worthy headline. But that's just not the case. Harbinger has received a lot of critical acclaim, but it isn't very strong in sales. So now the mission becomes to take those creative choices that are, unquestionably, designed as marketing hooks and execute them in the best way possible and hope that readers come. But at the end of the day, I just want to be proud of the work, whatever the engine was for the creative decisions. And Valiant may be doing what other publishers have to do to survive, but they've never backed me so far into a corner that I didn't get to work in my own voice, and I am very, very, very proud of what we've done with Harbinger. Regardless of compromises.

So because I worry because I love Valiant and I can't stop thinking about it... does this mean Valiant is in trouble?

Well, coming from a writer employee of a company he probably knows very little other than they are (probably politely) asking him to adjust his story lines to make them a little more marketable. As a writer who probably wants at least some control over the story, it is probably a little disappointing. He probably had expected the sales would allow him more freedom by now, and that is what is coming off as a negative tone in his post.

I honestly think VEI is doing well, but the only people who really know are Dino, the Cuneos, and the investors (and probably Warren and a few others).

My concern is more that Dysart may become a little disillusioned and eventually leave VEI for that green pasture of Image and creator-owned work (although that model is an "eat what you kill" sorta situation).