Harbinger #20 Discussion

[Captain Craig]

Do more research. And I don't mean watch more John Stewart.

But that run of Mosaic was soooooooo good.

It was a great run. My fav GL.
Yes, I apologize for erring on my Arctic/Antarctica locations. Admitting an error is allowed, still haven't seen anyone else admit that regarding the IPCC has used falsified data thus skewing the "theories" and affecting the models used by alarmists.

With so much going on leading to RAI I think they are likely to drop easter eggs that tie the Bleeding Monk to Rai.
Bleeding Monk looks like it cold potentially be as revealing as Shadowman #0 was last year.

[Shadowman99]

Admitting an error is allowed, still haven't seen anyone else admit that regarding the IPCC has used falsified data thus skewing the "theories" and affecting the models used by alarmists.

Well, without trying to sound condescending, I think it's because most people are confident of their opinions but aren't willing to try to communicate them when people aren't willing to listen

Anyway, I think that it's probably best to agree to disagree without belittling the opposing debate, no?

[BugsySig]

So, when is "Soon"? This will change everything.

I am surprised how well the part with Ax worked. Like everyone else I never liked the old one. Will be interesting to see what becomes of the new version.

Since we're spotting oddities. The laureate being on route just hours after the Nobel prize ceremony, and thus skipping the honorary concert the following day, is so unusual that I assume it's a mistake, especially as the ceremony part otherwise felt well researched.

/Magnus

I wonder if "soon" is just some kind of vision. Could be the Monk showing someone what will happen, or even Harada himself. Perhaps an attempt to have Ax cover up what he released in order to prevent that possible future.

[kjjohanson]

Admitting an error is allowed, still haven't seen anyone else admit that regarding the IPCC has used falsified data thus skewing the "theories" and affecting the models used by alarmists.

I still haven't seen convincing evidence that climate scientists have falsified data.

[Scarlet-Batman]

Enough with the global warming! This is about Harbinger, not climate change! Take your s over to a different thread/forum/site.

BACK ON TOPIC

So "soon" is probably very soon. If Ax released thousands of pages from the PRS, then every government is definitely going to have a copy. What I find truly crazy is that the Hard CORPS tech was also released in the data dump, which means we will likely see the rise of hundreds of new enemies for Bloodshot and the Hard CORPS to wipe out (the world doesn't want to see the rise of Super North Koreans, after all).

I wonder how this will help/hinder what's going on over in Unity...

[kjjohanson]

So, when is "Soon"? This will change everything.

I am surprised how well the part with Ax worked. Like everyone else I never liked the old one. Will be interesting to see what becomes of the new version.

Since we're spotting oddities. The laureate being on route just hours after the Nobel prize ceremony, and thus skipping the honorary concert the following day, is so unusual that I assume it's a mistake, especially as the ceremony part otherwise felt well researched.

/Magnus

I wonder if "soon" is just some kind of vision. Could be the Monk showing someone what will happen, or even Harada himself. Perhaps an attempt to have Ax cover up what he released in order to prevent that possible future.

I'm kinda hoping that "soon" is a possible future that doesn't come to pass. I think the dynamic of Harada being seen (by many, if not all) as a do-gooder allows for far more interesting stories than him being seen by the world as the big bad. (I think it would have been far more interesting if we never explicitly saw Harada engage in obvious treachery since VEI started.) That Bleeding Monk #0 falls in the middle of the storyline suggests to me that what he's been up to since Omega Rising is integral to this storyline.

[kjjohanson]

Enough with the global warming! This is about Harbinger, not climate change! Take your s over to a different thread/forum/site.

BACK ON TOPIC

Discussing what's been presented in the book *is* on topic. If you want to stick to discussing the books purely in the context of entertainment, that's your choice. But if I choose to discuss the books in the context of works of art that have something to say about our world outside of the confines of the content of the book, that's my choice. Skip the comments that go deeper if that's not your thing.

[bygranddesign]

So, when is "Soon"? This will change everything.

I am surprised how well the part with Ax worked. Like everyone else I never liked the old one. Will be interesting to see what becomes of the new version.

Since we're spotting oddities. The laureate being on route just hours after the Nobel prize ceremony, and thus skipping the honorary concert the following day, is so unusual that I assume it's a mistake, especially as the ceremony part otherwise felt well researched.

/Magnus

I wonder if "soon" is just some kind of vision. Could be the Monk showing someone what will happen, or even Harada himself. Perhaps an attempt to have Ax cover up what he released in order to prevent that possible future.

I'm kinda hoping that "soon" is a possible future that doesn't come to pass. I think the dynamic of Harada being seen (by many, if not all) as a do-gooder allows for far more interesting stories than him being seen by the world as the big bad. (I think it would have been far more interesting if we never explicitly saw Harada engage in obvious treachery since VEI started.) That Bleeding Monk #0 falls in the middle of the storyline suggests to me that what he's been up to since Omega Rising is integral to this storyline.

I actually think it makes sense for Harada to be forthright and tell the people of the world exactly who he is and what he is about. He wants to stop wars, he wants to create a better world of peace, prosperity and conservation (They don't need to know the gory details of trying to achieve that end). I think this goes to the heart of the book - The Utopian Dictator vs. Flawed Democracy. I think the world could possibly be split on him - Many will think "Hmmm.. my Government is just as shady, they start wars that have innocent people dying all the time and all it leads to is more and more wars. Maybe this guy could stop the cycle of war and violence." and countries that are war torn and poor will see him as their salvation.

I think the governments will be more threatened by him than the people.

I think Harada will throw the governments of the world an olive branch that says "I'm powerful, I'm here to help the world, I have no desire to take over the world but there are threats to this world that I have helped with in the past and there will be more threats in the future including world devastating threats (like the Vine) that you might need me and my foundation for so its in your best interest that you let me and my foundation exist."

And I think the world would have to go along with that.

I think by revealing himself - Harada will gain a lot more enemies but also gain more power, popularity and influence. Governments of the world will realize its probably a good idea to have him on your side.

But i'm sure this will also help the Renegades find more allies and supporters as they try to take him down.

I think this could make for more interesting storytelling .. than Harada just hiding in the shadows trying to influence the world. It was inevitable that someone would find out all his secrets and reveal them to the world anyway. If not @X someone else would do it. I mean its not like he is shy about going around as his younger looking self ... there has to be a disgruntled employee eventually that will spill his guts about Harada also (Maybe Stronghold).

[Scarlet-Batman]

Climate Change

[quote="kjjohanson"]
Discussing what's been presented in the book *is* on topic. If you want to stick to discussing the books purely in the context of entertainment, that's your choice. But if I choose to discuss the books in the context of works of art that have something to say about our world outside of the confines of the content of the book, that's my choice. Skip the comments that go deeper if that's not your thing.[/quote]

It is a tangential topic that has zero bearing on the story proper. It is akin to discussing how to implode buildings because we saw a building being demolished in the comic. Did it happen? Yes. Is it really important enough to go on and on about in this particular thread? No. Making a dedicated thread for such a topic seems vastly more preferable and appropriate. Its easy to say skip the comments but the tangential comments are crowding out the traditional discussions. 18 of the 58 comments have been discussing Global Climate Change. That's 31% of all the posts in the thread. Additionally, I am not the only one who feels this way (as evidenced by others in this thread voicing their opinion as well). Finally, none of the discussions are being talked about in the context of the Valiant Universe. The discussion has migrated to talking about the real world. The two universes are similar but they are different. If sea lanes are open in the Valiant U, then the pace of global warming has progressed farther than it has in the real world.

I have no problem with people discussing Global Climate Change. I just don't think this is the right forum for such an in depth discussion. I'm not saying you can't talk about it nor am I saying you shouldn't. Perhaps we can come to a compromise that will make everyone happy. On other message boards, it is common practice for tangential discussions to be labeled and spoiler-ed. That way people who do not wish to participate in the side topic can more easily skip over it if they don't want to participate. To me that would satisfy everyone involved.

EDIT: I looked back at my original post and it was a bit too callous. I did not intend for it to come off that way. I was just stating an opinion, I did not mean for it to look or sound rude. Sorry about that.

[Bl00dsh0t]

Initially I didn't like this issue (I know I'm in the minority), perhaps it's because I'm not familiar with the character @X from the earlier comics and was looking for something the flowed from #19. That said, after a second read I did a complete 180. I like the change of pace and focus - Harada's claim to have the world as his own openly really sets things in motion and changes the Valiant U landscape. Wonder if we'll see HARD Corps team up with Unity to take down Harada...would be interesting considering Livewire is the HARD Corps prime targets (just by being a psiot) - fits in with the original them of the Unity team having to work together to take down Aric but not necessarily liking one another. Then there's also the Renegades... so much potential spans form Harbinger #20.

And as someone else mentioned, I think @X will end up being a psiot.

[Shadowman99]

On other message boards, it is common practice for tangential discussions to be labeled and spoiler-ed.

Lol, you have *no* idea how often threads de-rail on this board

It's kind of part of the character of this forum in a way and most people don't mind it, so I think you're going to have to get used to it pretty quickly

[Big Red]

I enjoyed the issue but had one problem with it.

How did the Renegades find Ax so quickly?

It seemed extremely far fetched.

[BugsySig]

I enjoyed the issue but had one problem with it.

How did the Renegades find Ax so quickly?

It seemed extremely far fetched.

I think Ax knew they were in the area and used the leaked info to draw them to him deliberately. Perhaps we will find out more specifics later, but it definitely seemed to be his plan.

[Big Red]

I enjoyed the issue but had one problem with it.

How did the Renegades find Ax so quickly?

It seemed extremely far fetched.

I think Ax knew they were in the area and used the leaked info to draw them to him deliberately. Perhaps we will find out more specifics later, but it definitely seemed to be his plan.

I understood that that was his plan, but how did they trace him?

Does anyone on the team have the know-how to trace his location from the leaked info? Maybe Kris?

But even if she has the know-how, what technology did she use? The Bat-computer from the Bat-cave? They are on the run. Does she even have access to a computer?

Maybe I'm making too much of this, but it seemed far fetched.

[BugsySig]

I enjoyed the issue but had one problem with it.

How did the Renegades find Ax so quickly?

It seemed extremely far fetched.

I think Ax knew they were in the area and used the leaked info to draw them to him deliberately. Perhaps we will find out more specifics later, but it definitely seemed to be his plan.

I understood that that was his plan, but how did they trace him?

Does anyone on the team have the know-how to trace his location from the leaked info? Maybe Kris?

But even if she has the know-how, what technology did she use? The Bat-computer from the Bat-cave? They are on the run. Does she even have access to a computer?

Maybe I'm making too much of this, but it seemed far fetched.

No, I totally I agree. I just think there is more to the story. Ax may have even had direct contact with them prior to the scene at the park/his intentional capture. But if that had been revealed, it would have lessened the impact/tension of the issue's ending.

[jmatt]

No, I totally I agree. I just think there is more to the story. Ax may have even had direct contact with them prior to the scene at the park/his intentional capture. But if that had been revealed, it would have lessened the impact/tension of the issue's ending.

Same here. They did seem to appear out of nowhere with no reference other than Ax' statement about them following his "trail of breadcrumbs", there are events we didn't see.

[FormerReader]

I thoroughly enjoyed the issue. Honestly, last arc kind of drug on for me. I'm excited to see where the title heads from here as this could lead to many new stories. Dysart (and Henry) is at the top of his game.


Off topic, Man this is crazy weather we've been having lately.

[Shadowman99]

I thoroughly enjoyed the issue. Honestly, last arc kind of drug on for me. I'm excited to see where the title heads from here as this could lead to many new stories. Dysart (and Henry) is at the top of his game.


Off topic, Man this is crazy weather we've been having lately.

Personally, Harbinger, although I pick it up monthly, has always been so-so for me. The last half of the previous arc has been the first time that I've read Harbinger and thought "this is really good."

I thought I was the only person on the board that doesn't totally fill their underwear with jizz everytime a new Harbinger issue comes out, but it looks like you're a harder audience to please than me! (Oh, the innuendo...)

[leonmallett]

Enough with the global warming! This is about Harbinger, not climate change! Take your s over to a different thread/forum/site.

BACK ON TOPIC...

Yes that. Global warming is an important topic, but really can be discussed elsewhere on the board.

It seems to me that a very minor plot point is being used to disguise political discussion, and 'win' points on who is right about nothing really to do with the book main plot, characters or intent.

[leonmallett]

So, when is "Soon"? This will change everything.

I am surprised how well the part with Ax worked. Like everyone else I never liked the old one. Will be interesting to see what becomes of the new version.

Since we're spotting oddities. The laureate being on route just hours after the Nobel prize ceremony, and thus skipping the honorary concert the following day, is so unusual that I assume it's a mistake, especially as the ceremony part otherwise felt well researched.

/Magnus

I wonder if "soon" is just some kind of vision. Could be the Monk showing someone what will happen, or even Harada himself. Perhaps an attempt to have Ax cover up what he released in order to prevent that possible future.

I'm kinda hoping that "soon" is a possible future that doesn't come to pass. I think the dynamic of Harada being seen (by many, if not all) as a do-gooder allows for far more interesting stories than him being seen by the world as the big bad. (I think it would have been far more interesting if we never explicitly saw Harada engage in obvious treachery since VEI started.) That Bleeding Monk #0 falls in the middle of the storyline suggests to me that what he's been up to since Omega Rising is integral to this storyline.

I too think the 'soon' future is not quite as it seems. A lot of TV shows in recent years have employed a device of flash-backing from a perilous story beat, only to resolve the peril in a fairly neat way most of the time; I think this is a case of that. How that will happen is part of the entertainment for me, if it is the case.

[grendeljd]

This was an excellent issue, I've read it a couple times now (always a positive indicator of excellence for me). I'm primarily looking forward to the Bleeding Monk 0 issue, and as someone mentioned above (bygranddesign, I believe), it's very intriguing that it will land in the middle of this storyline. I've been wanting to know what he is up to, it feels a little like a dropped storyline. I really enjoyed all the scenes of Harada conferring with him in the earlier issues. Am I mistaken, or did he return to Harada at the end of Harbinger Wars, only to not be mentioned again since?

[bygranddesign]

This was an excellent issue, I've read it a couple times now (always a positive indicator of excellence for me). I'm primarily looking forward to the Bleeding Monk 0 issue, and as someone mentioned above (bygranddesign, I believe), it's very intriguing that it will land in the middle of this storyline. I've been wanting to know what he is up to, it feels a little like a dropped storyline. I really enjoyed all the scenes of Harada conferring with him in the earlier issues. Am I mistaken, or did he return to Harada at the end of Harbinger Wars, only to not be mentioned again since?

He talked to Harada in the "mindscape" after the Harbinger War's. So I think his physical whereabouts are still unknown.

I'm also feeling like he is a bit of a forgotten character. You would think Dysart in a 5 issue arc would have teased SOMETHING about what he was up to or perhaps a hand he was playing in the storyline. But nothing. The only sighting was him on a cool cover art which looks like it has nothing to do with the storyline. Big surprise.

I'm hoping for a big payoff with the Bleeding Monk. Issue #0 could be that big payoff where we will find out he has been manipulating and influencing things all along that we never realized and all the threads and connections will all come together nicely.

[grendeljd]

This was an excellent issue, I've read it a couple times now (always a positive indicator of excellence for me). I'm primarily looking forward to the Bleeding Monk 0 issue, and as someone mentioned above (bygranddesign, I believe), it's very intriguing that it will land in the middle of this storyline. I've been wanting to know what he is up to, it feels a little like a dropped storyline. I really enjoyed all the scenes of Harada conferring with him in the earlier issues. Am I mistaken, or did he return to Harada at the end of Harbinger Wars, only to not be mentioned again since?

He talked to Harada in the "mindscape" after the Harbinger War's. So I think his physical whereabouts are still unknown.

Aha, I had a feeling I was mistaken. I'm definitely due for a re-read of the whole series to date.

I'm also feeling like he is a bit of a forgotten character. You would think Dysart in a 5 issue arc would have teased SOMETHING about what he was up to or perhaps a hand he was playing in the storyline. But nothing. The only sighting was him on a cool cover art which looks like it has nothing to do with the storyline. Big surprise.

I'm hoping for a big payoff with the Bleeding Monk. Issue #0 could be that big payoff where we will find out he has been manipulating and influencing things all along that we never realized and all the threads and connections will all come together nicely.

I recall reading one of Dysarts Facebook posts about the monk, around the time #15 was out. He was musing on when to return to the character. He did say that he wanted to do one more arc after the Perfect Day story, focusing on the Renegades before revealing more about the BM. So he certainly hadn't forgotten about the character, but in real time - waiting for the monthly issues, it feels like a very long gap with no reference to him at all. I would imagine in the future when you can read through every issue at once, it won't feel that way anymore.

[Shadowman99]

I'm hoping for a big payoff with the Bleeding Monk. Issue #0 could be that big payoff where we will find out he has been manipulating and influencing things all along that we never realized and all the threads and connections will all come together nicely.

Dysart will only raise more questions than answers