Shadowman #14 discussion

[bygranddesign]

I thought it was a great issue

Absolutely beautifully drawn .. Once again RDLT kills it. He is one of my favorite artists today .. And favorite Valiant artist of the moment. He is absolutely perfect for this title. The amount of detail in each panel is a real joy and the coloring is brilliant! Love David Barons work. They are a great combo.

I thought the story was intriguing and enjoyable. It's exactly the type of story arc we need right now from Shadoman. I think the background to the cast out loa spirits was interesting .. I think all the plot points Milligan is putting into motion from Jack's past demons to Alyssa's desire to make Jack love her to the Loa fighting its own battle to become accepted back into the "mysteries" is all very good stuff.

My one main gripe is that I like issues to have a narrative arc ... And Milligan I think writes more to the overall arc than trying to create a single issue that has a beginning, middle and end type feel.

But overall ... I enjoyed it and can't wait for more.

8/10

[BugsySig]

This was one of the best Shadowman issues to date. Beautiful art by De La Torre that just makes every panel so dynamic. The story jumps around a little much, and I'm not sure where the Dox thing is coming from, but overall it was a fantastic issue. This is definitely the type of Shadowman I've wanted from the beginning and reminded me much more of the original than anything that's come before.

[pixierosa]

I liked the writing overall. I'm still getting used to the idea that Jack has such a violent streak that he can't control -- rage blackouts seem a bit much. That's my main gripe. Otherwise, it's an interesting story thus far, and De La Torre does incredible work.

Enjoyed the loa background, and I was struck by the symmetry between Jack and his Shadowman loa. They are both craving acceptance and belonging.

In regards to Dox, do you think that's really him? I find it hard to believe that he thinks Jack betrayed him -- that doesn't jive with what he said to Jack when they were confronting Darque. So, either this isn't really Dox, or the story has been re-imagined so that he does feel betrayed and wants payback. Looks like the Abettors catch up with Jack in the next book. I still find it odd that their solution is to just kill him, but perhaps they believe separating him from the loa will be near to impossible. What happens to the loa when he dies? Goes back and waits for another Boniface? But Jack is the last one...

Which brings me to my next question: the line of succession. It's based on Marius. They talked about Marius' grandson who went *SQUEE* in New Orleans. Who is the grandma? Did Marius have a baby with Sandria that survives? Likely not, but if he loved her with a "ferocity" - why would he ever leave her or cheat on her? Would she leave him? This may never be explained, but I'm left wondering if this is a Boniface/Darque lineage.

[BugsySig]

I liked the writing overall. I'm still getting used to the idea that Jack has such a violent streak that he can't control -- rage blackouts seem a bit much. That's my main gripe. Otherwise, it's an interesting story thus far, and De La Torre does incredible work.

Enjoyed the loa background, and I was struck by the symmetry between Jack and his Shadowman loa. They are both craving acceptance and belonging.

In regards to Dox, do you think that's really him? I find it hard to believe that he thinks Jack betrayed him -- that doesn't jive with what he said to Jack when they were confronting Darque. So, either this isn't really Dox, or the story has been re-imagined so that he does feel betrayed and wants payback. Looks like the Abettors catch up with Jack in the next book. I still find it odd that their solution is to just kill him, but perhaps they believe separating him from the loa will be near to impossible. What happens to the loa when he dies? Goes back and waits for another Boniface? But Jack is the last one...

Which brings me to my next question: the line of succession. It's based on Marius. They talked about Marius' grandson who went *SQUEE* in New Orleans. Who is the grandma? Did Marius have a baby with Sandria that survives? Likely not, but if he loved her with a "ferocity" - why would he ever leave her or cheat on her? Would she leave him? This may never be explained, but I'm left wondering if this is a Boniface/Darque lineage.

I don't have a problem with the violent past addition because we learned so little of Jack in the first two arcs. It doesn't seem outrageous and I can easily reconcile it with what little we did learn about Jack previously.

I thought the same about Dox...This might be a trick of the Abettors to convince Alyssa to help take down Jack.

The lineage is an interesting question. We still aren't sure Sandria survived at the end of issue 10. While Marius' love for her helped control the Loa, she may not have still been around and Marius found comfort in another.

[hawkeyeps]

I thought this was the best issue this week, I really like where they are going with the story and the art is a perfect fit. This book is starting to develop mood which I think is important.

I don't think that's Dox. I'll throw out a theory and say one of the Abettor's has been infiltrated by a stray Loa spirit and is trying to destroy Shadowman via the Abettors, maybe it's the Commissioner Gordon guy or Earlene? I like that they set up a bit of mythos in that the Shadowman Loa wanted to be part of an elite group and was going about it by slaying his fellow "rejects" who judging by the pusher seem like a pretty evil bunch of bottom feeders.

Definitely in the mood of #0,10 and 13 which I think is the right direction for this book, it's moving up my list for sure. Well done VEI

[lorddunlow]

Good stuff! RDLT - wow! Really enjoying this.

The tweak to the 0/10 origin of the loa was the only thing that bothered me, as I really liked Justin Jordan's idea that the loa was created by Sandria from her unborn baby's soul. I wonder if Milligan is scrapping that element altogether or just adjusting it slightly to fit this exiled loa narrative?

[pixierosa]

Good stuff! RDLT - wow! Really enjoying this.

The tweak to the 0/10 origin of the loa was the only thing that bothered me, as I really liked Justin Jordan's idea that the loa was created by Sandria from her unborn baby's soul. I wonder if Milligan is scrapping that element altogether or just adjusting it slightly to fit this exiled loa narrative?

In the origin story, I wasn't clear if she bonded the baby's soul to Marius along with a loa or if the baby became the loa. What did seem the case, and what seems more apparent here, is that she sacrificed the baby's life in order to create the Shadowman. She did say that she knew the baby wouldn't survive, and we know her magic works by taking life force from one thing to empower another, so it's looking like the baby was the battery. I'm trying to look at it from the point of view that the baby wasn't going to live long and the scenario is similar to that of organ donation, but it's sad and twisted (just like Sandria). I'm not saying she's evil, but she's been twisted by her life and experiences.

[bygranddesign]

Good stuff! RDLT - wow! Really enjoying this.

The tweak to the 0/10 origin of the loa was the only thing that bothered me, as I really liked Justin Jordan's idea that the loa was created by Sandria from her unborn baby's soul. I wonder if Milligan is scrapping that element altogether or just adjusting it slightly to fit this exiled loa narrative?

I don't think Milligan is scrapping anything

My take on it was that Sandria created Shadowman ... She re-purposed and bonded the ancient loa spirit to Marius with the idea that this new creation (shadowman) would protect the world from Master Darque. The Loa has its roots in Africa and have been worshiped/feared since ancient times. Milligan is now exploring this Loa mythology which Jordan didn't really do so I think he has a lot of room to do his own thing with it.

[bygranddesign]

I think sacrificing the baby is part of the ritual that bonded the loa to shadowman.

I'm sure there is an interesting back story to issue 10 that involves Sandria making friends with Marius family and African Slaves and learning about Voodoo and the Loa spirit and how the ritual to bond a human to the spirit is done. It probably takes an enormous sacrifice to do such a thing which is where the baby comes in.

Shadowman: Sandria Darque #0 is high on my list of issues I want to see from Valiant

[bygranddesign]

I thought this was the best issue this week, I really like where they are going with the story and the art is a perfect fit. This book is starting to develop mood which I think is important.

I don't think that's Dox. I'll throw out a theory and say one of the Abettor's has been infiltrated by a stray Loa spirit and is trying to destroy Shadowman via the Abettors, maybe it's the Commissioner Gordon guy or Earlene? I like that they set up a bit of mythos in that the Shadowman Loa wanted to be part of an elite group and was going about it by slaying his fellow "rejects" who judging by the pusher seem like a pretty evil bunch of bottom feeders.

Definitely in the mood of #0,10 and 13 which I think is the right direction for this book, it's moving up my list for sure. Well done VEI

Yeah ... I agree with Dox. Its one thing that felt off to me. It didn't seem like him at all. Could be the abettors using some magic .. and maybe Baron Semedi is somehow involved as well - it might be something he can pull off as lord of the deadside he might be able to twist Dox to do what he wants. (but not sure why he would want to harm Jack/Shadowman)

[apainter]

Other than the Dox bit at the end, the other part that didn't feel right to me was Alyssa's offer to be with Jack. It's bizarre that they think a love to match Marius and Sandria's can just be turned on and off like that, especially when their motive is to control the loa, and not, you know, actual feelings.

Art

[bygranddesign]

Other than the Dox bit at the end, the other part that didn't feel right to me was Alyssa's offer to be with Jack. It's bizarre that they think a love to match Marius and Sandria's can just be turned on and off like that, especially when their motive is to control the loa, and not, you know, actual feelings.

Art

It felt like a real moment to me. It makes sense that she would have feeling for him (both being young, good looking people sharing this common crazy experience together of fighting monsters). I think she is also desperate to try and save him ... and have him control this spirit that is taking him over. There is no time to train him to control the spirit.. but maybe if she showed him all her cards - that she has feelings for him ... and learns that he has those same feelings for her ... they can be together which they both want anyway and at the same time perhaps it helps him control the spirit. It makes for an interesting relationship dynamic that hope Milligan follows through with ... its hard enough trying to make a relationship work but to have the added pressure of trying to make it work while having your soul and sanity hang in the balance is good story fodder and an interesting love story.

[Bone-A-Fach-ee]

Am I the only one that kinda doesn't understand what is going on? I love the art, but sometimes Jack looks white, sometimes black. No true facial features that identify him, other than being the only mid-late 20's male on the page.
I think RDLT is using Rosario Dawson as a template for Alyssa?
Very confused about most of it, although other parts did make sense to me.
IMO, this is NOT what should have come out of the new creative team. But, I am glad that others are enjoying it and I do hope for success for the title.

[Robert of the tower]

I think RDLT is using Rosario Dawson as a template for Alyssa?

Yes! For me is the perfect Alyssa.

About Jack,you are right. I start drawing him too white and just could correct some pages of this book. Some times looks a white dude and others more black.
Sorry about that fellas. Solved for next ##

Any way,I´m so happy you guys are enjoy it.

More coming!

[BugsySig]

I think RDLT is using Rosario Dawson as a template for Alyssa?

Yes! For me is the perfect Alyssa.

About Jack,you are right. I start drawing him too white and just could correct some pages of this book. Some times looks a white dude and others more black.
Sorry about that fellas. Solved for next ##

Any way,I´m so happy you guys are enjoy it.

More coming!

I love the art, Roberto! Keep up the great work!

[bygranddesign]

Yes, great job Roberto!

I hope you are doing the next arc as well

I hope to see you at a convention one day - i'd love to get a sketch from you and/or some original art (especially from shadowman)

[jmatt]

I feel comfortable saying that I think the book is finally on the right track. Wow! What a great issue.

Jack's fighting Umbra, his Loa, while Umbra takes on the other exiles. And I even feel like Punk Mambo is starting to sit well with me. She seemed out of place at first but the more I see her the more I like the added character element she brings to the book.

The backstory is kinda hairy: The Lwa (Loa) are ancient and from Africa, but Sandria created the Shadowman by bonding her baby's soul to Marius? That's a little confusing. I have to go reread #0/10 again.

The Dox thing is a mystery, he feels Jack betrayed him in some way? Something's up with Obi Dox.

[iwantvaliant]

I don't understand what's going on. I'll need to re-read it. I can live with a dramatic change in Jack's character, but Alyssa also seems to me to be a completely different person.

The art and coloring is phenomenal.

[bribri]

I think RDLT is using Rosario Dawson as a template for Alyssa?

Yes! For me is the perfect Alyssa.

About Jack,you are right. I start drawing him too white and just could correct some pages of this book. Some times looks a white dude and others more black.
Sorry about that fellas. Solved for next ##

Any way,I´m so happy you guys are enjoy it.

More coming!

But he's half black and half white. So...well done?

[bygranddesign]

I think RDLT is using Rosario Dawson as a template for Alyssa?

Yes! For me is the perfect Alyssa.

About Jack,you are right. I start drawing him too white and just could correct some pages of this book. Some times looks a white dude and others more black.
Sorry about that fellas. Solved for next ##

Any way,I´m so happy you guys are enjoy it.

More coming!

But he's half black and half white. So...well done?

his dad I would definitely say is black

His mom looks more mixed .. but I think more black than white

If you are referring to Sandria as a possible ancestor that was probably 6-7 generations ago

Like most people who have had generations living in America ... Jack probably has a good mixture of many races

But i'd definitely prefer to have him look more black ... and I think he has looked more black in these last few issues than he has the entire series so I definitely think that RDLT has done a good job.

[bygranddesign]

I was re-reading issue one again

And there is the important scene of Jack becoming Shadowman in which the Loa rattles off the past Boniface that were Shadowman

and no mention of Leroy

I guess he is the Shadowman they don't want to talk about ... even the Loa wants to forget it happened

[Tannerman]

I don't understand what's going on.

This was quite confusing. Anyone care to write a brief summary for some of us clueless folks?

[BugsySig]

I don't understand what's going on.

This was quite confusing. Anyone care to write a brief summary for some of us clueless folks?

I think what we are getting is a slow reveal of both Jack's past and the history of the Loa. Issue #13 was just the tip of the iceberg...giving us a glimpse into both and an intro to what Milligan will be doing with the characters. With this issue we are heading below the surface.

I don't want to speculate on where it is all going, because I believe Milligan will continue to reveal the full story, but the poster who mentioned Sandria needing the baby's life force in order to summon the loa and bond it to Marius makes a lot of sense. The Loa has been exiled for some reason and wants to rejoin the Voodun pantheon by proving itself. It is still extremely violent, however, and is taking advantage of Jack's already fragile psyche.

Overall we seem to be getting a very Bruce Banner/Hulk, Johnny Blaze/Ghost Rider or Jason Blood/Etrigan type of relationship with Jack and the Loa. Only here, Milligan has both Jack and the Loa dealing with inner monsters as well as battling each other.

At least that's how I see things.

[nscc]

I don't understand what's going on.

This was quite confusing. Anyone care to write a brief summary for some of us clueless folks?

I think what we are getting is a slow reveal of both Jack's past and the history of the Loa. Issue #13 was just the tip of the iceberg...giving us a glimpse into both and an intro to what Milligan will be doing with the characters. With this issue we are heading below the surface.

I don't want to speculate on where it is all going, because I believe Milligan will continue to reveal the full story, but the poster who mentioned Sandria needing the baby's life force in order to summon the loa and bond it to Marius makes a lot of sense. The Loa has been exiled for some reason and wants to rejoin the Voodun pantheon by proving itself. It is still extremely violent, however, and is taking advantage of Jack's already fragile psyche.

Overall we seem to be getting a very Bruce Banner/Hulk, Johnny Blaze/Ghost Rider or Jason Blood/Etrigan type of relationship with Jack and the Loa. Only here, Milligan has both Jack and the Loa dealing with inner monsters as well as battling each other.

At least that's how I see things.

I haven't read it yet, and really enjoyed 13 but that makes me

[Captain Craig]

This issue was a greatly needed step up for the series. I was not on as solid footing as some after issue #13.
I won't repeat in depth what's already been said.
I will summarily say: Art great, Jack as troubled semi-out of control rage fiend not so great, Alyssa essentially throwing her self at Jack...is real(kinda in that myself right now so it can happen), Dox--is that really you or some trick, possibly good, possibly revisionist history from not too long ago we got a different vibe from Dox.

The London swamp babe was noticeably absent, it's like she pulled a Dr.Mirage on us.

The contrast that made the book seem even better was just how horrid Q&W#7 was. My LCS got shorted so I haven't read BS&HC yet.