Harbinger Wars: The Whole Thing - Discussion

[Savant]

I'd give Harbinger Wars an A-, Harbinger an A, and Bloodshot a B-.

Harbinger Wars was far better than I thought it would be. The final issue wasn't as climactic as I anticipated, but it was still solid.

Harbinger........Dysart has taken this title to a higher gear. I was going to drop the book after HW, but the title has gotten so good I have to stay with it.

With Bloodshot, a lot of the criticisms ring true. One thing in particular, I would've thought the demise of Kuretich wouldn't have felt so empty and rushed.

[grendeljd]

I just thought of a good catch-phrase to sum up the event...

The stakes were high, Harada takes all.

[Scarlet-Batman]

New Valiant fan (officially jumped on board with the Valiant 99 cent sale).

I *really* enjoyed Harbinger Wars 1-4. Those four issues were amazing in all ways. They had a concise plot, good pacing, solid actions and super character moments. This is exactly what events should feel like and I wish the Big 2 would take notes (because this event trumped every event Marvel and DC penned in 2013). I really enjoyed the balance the issues maintained between all of the different factions and the massive number of characters that were apart of this event.

Harbinger's tie-ins were also great as they expanded and elaborated upon the events that transpired in the main book. I truly enjoyed the 1969 B-plot as it showcased why Harada and P.R.S despise one another so much.

Bloodshot was... Honestly, Bloodshot felt like it was butter scraped over too much bread. It was, at best, a two issue story arc that was stretched out to four issues. Bloodshot meandered around the main plot quite a bit but never really generated meaningful character moments (in the way that Harby did), which is truly sad because there was so much potential to do that with the Generation Zero kids. Even if the majority of those characters were being saved for other writers, Swierczynski could have utilized the kids who died in Harbinger Wars for such a purpose. Kara's sudden onset of cold feet and her wholesale abandonment of the kids mid-battle was entirely and completely without cause, nor was it in-character! She could have easily been apart of the battle but gotten herself knocked out and only awoke after the battle; or Bloodshot could have forced her to leave the group before the battle; or she was arrested by the police but escaped before they hauled her in for questioning. Point being, there are just so many better ways to justify her getting the money than the way it was presented in #13.

I read the event in the order in which Valiant listed them in the back of each comic (Wars->Harby->Bloodshot). I feel a bit cheated by this because, in reality, it would read better if I started and finished Harbinger Wars, then read Harbinger and Bloodshot tie-ins. I am not the biggest fan of how Valiant structured the event. Making it so that each run is accessible by itself (without the aid of other books) is laudable but winds up with mixed results. I've rarely seen this style of crossover work at other companies, so its no surprise Valiant had difficulty with it. On the whole, I think I would have preferred a seamless transition style crossover (one book bleeds into the next, into the next). You might not have even needed the Harbinger Wars mini-series had you formatted the event that way.

On the whole I would give...

Harbinger Wars: A
Harbinger: A
Bloodshot: C
The whole event in its entirety: B

EDIT: Also, as a guy who lives in Nevada, it was great seeing my home state get so much attention in this event!

[Keith]

Welcome! Always great to see a new reader on the boards!

Just curious, have you read any past the Harbinger Wars yet?

[Carson]

New Valiant fan (officially jumped on board with the Valiant 99 cent sale).

I *really* enjoyed Harbinger Wars 1-4. Those four issues were amazing in all ways. They had a concise plot, good pacing, solid actions and super character moments. This is exactly what events should feel like and I wish the Big 2 would take notes (because this event trumped every event Marvel and DC penned in 2013). I really enjoyed the balance the issues maintained between all of the different factions and the massive number of characters that were apart of this event.

Harbinger's tie-ins were also great as they expanded and elaborated upon the events that transpired in the main book. I truly enjoyed the 1969 B-plot as it showcased why Harada and P.R.S despise one another so much.

Bloodshot was... Honestly, Bloodshot felt like it was butter scraped over too much bread. It was, at best, a two issue story arc that was stretched out to four issues. Bloodshot meandered around the main plot quite a bit but never really generated meaningful character moments (in the way that Harby did), which is truly sad because there was so much potential to do that with the Generation Zero kids. Even if the majority of those characters were being saved for other writers, Swierczynski could have utilized the kids who died in Harbinger Wars for such a purpose. Kara's sudden onset of cold feet and her wholesale abandonment of the kids mid-battle was entirely and completely without cause, nor was it in-character! She could have easily been apart of the battle but gotten herself knocked out and only awoke after the battle; or Bloodshot could have forced her to leave the group before the battle; or she was arrested by the police but escaped before they hauled her in for questioning. Point being, there are just so many better ways to justify her getting the money than the way it was presented in #13.

I read the event in the order in which Valiant listed them in the back of each comic (Wars->Harby->Bloodshot). I feel a bit cheated by this because, in reality, it would read better if I started and finished Harbinger Wars, then read Harbinger and Bloodshot tie-ins. I am not the biggest fan of how Valiant structured the event. Making it so that each run is accessible by itself (without the aid of other books) is laudable but winds up with mixed results. I've rarely seen this style of crossover work at other companies, so its no surprise Valiant had difficulty with it. On the whole, I think I would have preferred a seamless transition style crossover (one book bleeds into the next, into the next). You might not have even needed the Harbinger Wars mini-series had you formatted the event that way.

On the whole I would give...

Harbinger Wars: A
Harbinger: A
Bloodshot: C
The whole event in its entirety: B

EDIT: Also, as a guy who lives in Nevada, it was great seeing my home state get so much attention in this event!

Awesome analysis, and it echoes many of the sentiments aired on other threads. It really seemed like the Straczynski was either:
1. Phoning it in on his last arc
2. Rebelling against being forced (by editorial) to get rid of Bloodshot's supporting cast. I can hear it now:
Editor: "I need you to get rid of Bloodshot's supporting cast by the end of the arc so we have a clean slate for the next writer who will be starting the Bloodshot and H.A.R.D. Corps storyline"
Straczynski: "You don't like my supporting cast? Screw it then. I'll just have her go dig up some money and forget about the Generation 0 kids"

It's a shame that the Bloodshot arc was so bad, because the Harbinger Wars and Harbinger arcs were awesome!

Welcome to the boards!

[Bl00dsh0t]

I recently went back and read Bloodshot #0 through #13 and as a standalone, it works well despite the bad ending to Swierczynski's run. I DO think the decision to get rid of the supporting cast was out of his control though. As other board members have stated, the book was heading in a new direciton and Valiant clearly wanted a clean slate.

I think we haven't seen the last Clem (his death wasn't articulated in BS AT ALL!) or Kara. At some stage BS will move away from HARD Corps (I see HC getting their own title) which could result in a return of some of the supporting cast from the original Swierczynksi arcs. Also, I dont think Clem is actually dead. For me, there are enough hints that Harada may be using the nanites on Clem...Bloodshot #0 had a man badly wounded ala Clem who was restored by the nanites.

[jmatt]

On the whole, I think I would have preferred a seamless transition style crossover (one book bleeds into the next, into the next). You might not have even needed the Harbinger Wars mini-series had you formatted the event that way.

I'm in agreement that it should have just flowed from one book to the next. Keep HW but work it into the releases.

I mean, people are buying to read a story. So a Harby reader that doesn't normally read BS has to buy a few issues of BS to get the whole story? I can't see that stopping them, they're there for the story, no matter who's picture is on the cover.

I just read an old Avengers arc that finishes in FF #150. I didn't bat an eye, just went and bought a copy on Ebay because I wanted the whole story before moving on to the next Avengers issue. In fact, I like that it helps me branch out into other titles.

Oh, and welcome to the board!

[leonmallett]

On the whole, I think I would have preferred a seamless transition style crossover (one book bleeds into the next, into the next). You might not have even needed the Harbinger Wars mini-series had you formatted the event that way.

I'm in agreement that it should have just flowed from one book to the next. Keep HW but work it into the releases.

I mean, people are buying to read a story. So a Harby reader that doesn't normally read BS has to buy a few issues of BS to get the whole story? I can't see that stopping them, they're there for the story, no matter who's picture is on the cover.

I just read an old Avengers arc that finishes in FF #150. I didn't bat an eye, just went and bought a copy on Ebay because I wanted the whole story before moving on to the next Avengers issue. In fact, I like that it helps me branch out into other titles.

Oh, and welcome to the board!

Unfortunately some readers, like it or not, can be turned off when they feel forced to but another title they don't normally buy. Of course the question is really do the gains exceed the losses in those situations. Given that this is a ploy that has been used for decades, the prevailing wisdom is that they do, but just putting the point that not all actually like having to do so.

[Scarlet-Batman]

Welcome! Always great to see a new reader on the boards!

Just curious, have you read any past the Harbinger Wars yet?

I have read the first post-Wars issue for both Bloodshot and Harbinger. I have to say, I like where both are going. Deadshot really needed a new direction and the Hard Corps seems to fit that bill, although I do miss Kara and Kuretich, I wish they hadn't been forced out of the comic. Harbinger was a real surprise, can't wait to read the next issue!

Awesome analysis, and it echoes many of the sentiments aired on other threads. It really seemed like the Straczynski was either:
1. Phoning it in on his last arc
2. Rebelling against being forced (by editorial) to get rid of Bloodshot's supporting cast. I can hear it now:
Editor: "I need you to get rid of Bloodshot's supporting cast by the end of the arc so we have a clean slate for the next writer who will be starting the Bloodshot and H.A.R.D. Corps storyline"
Straczynski: "You don't like my supporting cast? Screw it then. I'll just have her go dig up some money and forget about the Generation 0 kids"

It's a shame that the Bloodshot arc was so bad, because the Harbinger Wars and Harbinger arcs were awesome!

Welcome to the boards!

That's really disappointing to hear! I had hoped it was just because Straczynski wasn't a co-writer on Harbinger Wars but your theories seem to make a lot of sense given what he wrote. Really sad that it went down that way. There are better ways to end a your contribution to a title than do things that are so out of character that they actually mar your entire run as a creator.

I recently went back and read Bloodshot #0 through #13 and as a standalone, it works well despite the bad ending to Swierczynski's run. I DO think the decision to get rid of the supporting cast was out of his control though. As other board members have stated, the book was heading in a new direciton and Valiant clearly wanted a clean slate.

I think we haven't seen the last Clem (his death wasn't articulated in BS AT ALL!) or Kara. At some stage BS will move away from HARD Corps (I see HC getting their own title) which could result in a return of some of the supporting cast from the original Swierczynksi arcs. Also, I dont think Clem is actually dead. For me, there are enough hints that Harada may be using the nanites on Clem...Bloodshot #0 had a man badly wounded ala Clem who was restored by the nanites.

Perhaps that is the better way to read Bloodshot - as a pure run - rather than the way we all read it (intermingling with two other series). It definitely seems to what Valiant intended.

Cool theory about Clem! I hope he didn't die because that was a terrible way to go out. I wonder if he'll ever discover the benefits of wearing shirts though?

I do hope Kara comes back, she was actually a truly interesting character. I mean she was just some woman that got swept up into this big adventure and obviously was constantly out of her element yet every time her friends needed her to step up, she did (well, except the last issue but that doesn't count).

one thing I was curious about though - the co-ordinates she was given were located in Baja California, which means she would have to cross the border to get there. Wouldn't it seem a bit suspicious to US border control agents that this woman just happens to saunter up with a big briefcase full of cash. Wouldn't that ping any alarms? Also, why hasn't the PRS or Harada, or the US government for that matter, interrogated her? Seems to me she would definitely be a person of interest to a many powerful person.

I'm in agreement that it should have just flowed from one book to the next. Keep HW but work it into the releases.

I mean, people are buying to read a story. So a Harby reader that doesn't normally read BS has to buy a few issues of BS to get the whole story? I can't see that stopping them, they're there for the story, no matter who's picture is on the cover.

I just read an old Avengers arc that finishes in FF #150. I didn't bat an eye, just went and bought a copy on Ebay because I wanted the whole story before moving on to the next Avengers issue. In fact, I like that it helps me branch out into other titles.

Oh, and welcome to the board!

Was there enough material to fully cover 12 books? As is, a good third of all the Harbingers and Bloodshot issues were just recaps.

I think the continuous story is looked down upon by many comic fans because of how the Big Two abuse it. They will run crossovers multiple times a year, all of which force you to buy a ton of comics that you otherwise would not be reading or have purchased.

Take All-New X-Men, a comic that I adore. Last September/October Marvel made an event called Battle of the Atom, which was a 10 part continuous story that crossed over 4 titles and 2 book end issues. If I were only reading All-New X-Men, that would mean I would have to buy 8 issues I would not normally have purchased. That's excessive. On top of that, we also had the 3 part Arms of the Octopus mini-series crossover, which was made worse by the fact that ANXM's issue was a "Special" rather than a normal issue, which means it had to be purchased in addition to the normal title (like an annual). So there's 3 more issues that I wouldn't have bought. Now, come January, All-New X-Men is crossing over with Guardians of the Galaxy for the Trial of Jean Gray, which is going to be at least 4 issues. So in a 5 month period I have had to purchase all of my normal issues for ANXM plus (8 more for Battle + 3 more for Arms + 2 more for Trial =) 13 extra issues!

This is why many comic fans dislike continuous story crossovers - because the big two ruin it for everyone. Personally, I think that that particular model works best when used sparingly. Like once a year or if the extra issues are kept to a minimum (like 1 extra issue (as with your Avemgers/FF crossover)). I'm sure this general dislike was on of the reasons behind Valiant's decision to use a different model.

I believe cameos and guest stars should be the more common method of giving readers the opportunity to enjoy different characters. Like say Spider-Man coming over to an X-Men book for a few issues to solve some crime perpetrated by a mutual enemy. Or the way Gilad showed up in Archer and Armstrong for a few issues. It saves comic fans money and still gives them the desired effect of introducing and showcasing characters to a different audience. Everyone wins!

[coachjamie]

I just picked up and read the four Harbinger Wars issues. I went ahead and added Harbinger and Bloodshot: Hard Corps to my pull box as well. I bought Bloodshot HC issues 14-18 and Harbinger issues 18-19 , I plan on getting the issues prior to those as well. Which issues tie in with HW?

[Keith]

I just picked up and read the four Harbinger Wars issues. I went ahead and added Harbinger and Bloodshot: Hard Corps to my pull box as well. I bought Bloodshot HC issues 14-18 and Harbinger issues 18-19 , I plan on getting the issues prior to those as well. Which issues tie in with HW?

Harbinger 11 - 14 and Bloodshot 10 -13 tie in with Harbinger Wars, but definitely read the prior issues. The first two Bloodshot arcs, in particular, set up the Harbinger Wars event, and the first two Harbinger arcs hint at the conflict between Harada and Project Rising Spirit.

[coachjamie]

ok gotcha. I will have to try to pick those up then also.

[Chiclo]

I would definitely say to start from the beginning with Harbinger because it is that good from the beginning.

There is an oversized hardcover available collecting Harbinger 0 through 14. Definitely worth it.

http://www.amazon.com/Harbinger-Deluxe- ... =harbinger" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Bloodshot counterpart ships in April.

http://www.amazon.com/Bloodshot-Deluxe- ... pd_sim_b_3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;