Eternal Warrior #4 Discussion

[Manaf82]

I'm not getting the negativity at all in this thread - this was the strongest overall issue of the week IMO. I thought the art was strong throughout and the story much more focused than last weeks issue. I think Pak's skills as a writer were on full display as he linked the past with the present and brought the narrative full circle - Mitu fleshed out further as Gilad's favorite - sensitive and tragic person who now serves Death ... and Xaran as reckless and defiant as ever ... and Gilad had some great moments trying to reconcile all these revelations about his children.

I thought the narrative was focused and brought the arc to a satisfying end while building up anticipation for a 4001 arc that we now know will be focused on the potential release of Nergal.

I'm not sure where there would be confusion - Gilad and Xaran destroyed a tree that was trapping Nergal in his prison. Obviously we know they didn't actually kill the Earth Goddess.

+1 agreed!

I'm ok at 4 issues with not knowing where all of the plot lines are going in the book but I don't think the book is quite as confusing as some people find it. I thought this was a strong issue, particularly like the flashback scenes with Mithu as a boy and his sensitivity around killing animals.
Art was good too (except the last 2 pages, what happened there?).

Special mention for the La Rosa (close up cover) which I thought was excellent.

4/5 - enjoyed it!

It wasn't actually confusing more like disconnected from the rest valiant universe and felt very generic and his character felt very different from what we see in other books.Plus the houses were introduced a little too fast and this again should have been mentioned in some other valiant books first.

This feels like too much what was happening with first arcs of shadowman.

[jmatt]

This feels like too much what was happening with first arcs of shadowman.

In a general sense, people perhaps not crazy about how it unfolds, I can see that case being made.

But specifically, the two are exactly opposite: The Shadowman character leaps off the last page of issue #1 and readers perhaps feel Jack is too quick to embrace or question it. In EW, Gilad is, from the get go, trying to not be the character readers expect him to be.

VEI must hate the fickle reader base.

[lorddunlow]

VEI must hate the fickle reader base.

Yeah, you guys suck.

[Carson]

VEI must hate the fickle reader base.

Yeah, you guys suck.

^ Funny post

[Manaf82]

This feels like too much what was happening with first arcs of shadowman.

In a general sense, people perhaps not crazy about how it unfolds, I can see that case being made.

But specifically, the two are exactly opposite: The Shadowman character leaps off the last page of issue #1 and readers perhaps feel Jack is too quick to embrace or question it. In EW, Gilad is, from the get go, trying to not be the character readers expect him to be.

VEI must hate the fickle reader base.

I meant similar in that it feels divorced from the rest of VEI. Some of the other books should have mentioned the other houses first. That is houses other than the earth.Plus the characterization and the tone of the book feels divorced from rest of VEI. It feels too much like a fantasy book that a VEI book.bThis works in the case of Shadowman,(In that book the disconnect wasn't a problem as most of the problems in that book originate and culminate in New Orleans.) But on a larger landscape this feels disconnected. Especially the physical representation of the gods felt cheesy and too... Easy if that makes sense..

Elven princess earth Godess

Satan wild God..

Come on!!!

[leonmallett]

This feels like too much what was happening with first arcs of shadowman.

In a general sense, people perhaps not crazy about how it unfolds, I can see that case being made.

But specifically, the two are exactly opposite: The Shadowman character leaps off the last page of issue #1 and readers perhaps feel Jack is too quick to embrace or question it. In EW, Gilad is, from the get go, trying to not be the character readers expect him to be.

VEI must hate the fickle reader base.

I meant similar in that it feels divorced from the rest of VEI. Some of the other books should have mentioned the other houses first. That is houses other than the earth.Plus the characterization and the tone of the book feels divorced from rest of VEI. It feels too much like a fantasy book that a VEI book.bThis works in the case of Shadowman,(In that book the disconnect wasn't a problem as most of the problems in that book originate and culminate in New Orleans.) But on a larger landscape this feels disconnected. Especially the physical representation of the gods felt cheesy and too... Easy if that makes sense..

Elven princess earth Godess

Satan wild God..

Come on!!!

If the knowledge of the Houses is not out there among the characters we have seen though, how could they then be referenced?

Doing so could and probably would be quite contrived. I am really not sure how it could have been done in any of the books except some sideways mention in Shadowman or Archer & Armstrong, and even then, you need the right mouthpiece.

[Carson]

the physical representation of the gods felt cheesy and too... Easy if that makes sense..

Elven princess earth Godess

Satan wild God..

Come on!!!

Someone said something earlier that made me feel better about the physical manifestation of the gods.

They appear as the viewer perceives them to be.

Remember in A&A when the earth god appears as a monkey to Kay McHenry? I believe it was covered there that was just her perception of what the earth god SHOULD look like.

So, the giant red satan looking god of the dead (perceived by the bloodthirsty daughter) and the beautiful eleven god of the earth (perceived by EW) makes sense.

I truly hope they stick to this logic and the appearance of the gods changes every time someone new sees them. That way we're not locked into these looks for each god, and it makes them much more that a physical being.

[BugsySig]

the physical representation of the gods felt cheesy and too... Easy if that makes sense..

Elven princess earth Godess

Satan wild God..

Come on!!!

Someone said something earlier that made me feel better about the physical manifestation of the gods.

They appear as the viewer perceives them to be.

Remember in A&A when the earth god appears as a monkey to Kay McHenry? I believe it was covered there that was just her perception of what the earth god SHOULD look like.

So, the giant red satan looking god of the dead (perceived by the bloodthirsty daughter) and the beautiful eleven god of the earth (perceived by EW) makes sense.

I truly hope they stick to this logic and the appearance of the gods changes every time someone new sees them. That way we're not locked into these looks for each god, and it makes them much more that a physical being.

That was me

Good theory, right

[String]

I'm not getting the negativity at all in this thread - this was the strongest overall issue of the week IMO. I thought the art was strong throughout and the story much more focused than last weeks issue. I think Pak's skills as a writer were on full display as he linked the past with the present and brought the narrative full circle - Mitu fleshed out further as Gilad's favorite - sensitive and tragic person who now serves Death ... and Xaran as reckless and defiant as ever ... and Gilad had some great moments trying to reconcile all these revelations about his children.

I thought the narrative was focused and brought the arc to a satisfying end while building up anticipation for a 4001 arc that we now know will be focused on the potential release of Nergal.

I'm not sure where there would be confusion - Gilad and Xaran destroyed a tree that was trapping Nergal in his prison. Obviously we know they didn't actually kill the Earth Goddess.

Absolutely agree. I thought this was a very satisfying ending to the first overall arc.

The flashbacks with Mitu link back to Xaran's actions in #1, she is reckless, arrogant, and bloodthristy but now we know she killed Mitu because she was threatened by his potential to be the better heir. That adds so much dimension to her character and adds a bit of tragedy to her aspect as well.

As for Gilad, this isn't so much about him not being who he is, rather it's about him accepting it. Buck said it perfectly, 'You can't deny who you are'. We've seen flashbacks of him serving as the Sword of the Earth, seen his growing disillusionment over what that required which lead to him walking away from it. But look what it did to his family. Xaran, full of anger and (and now we know) resentment, she tries to fill Gilad's role and fails, which makes it appear as if Gilad's instincts were true about Mitu's potential. Mitu, brought back by the Earth, ends up serving Death, why? (I want to know!)
The reaction shot of Gilad sobbing over hearing over this news, raw and emotional, loved it.

The mystery of the Houses and the Balance (if the Earth Goddess has been weakened, what does that mean for the Balance?), so much potential there. And now a definitive, good reason to travel to 4001.

For me, EW is the best book I'm reading from VEI at the moment.

[jmatt]

I meant similar in that it feels divorced from the rest of VEI. ...It feels too much like a fantasy book that a VEI book

I agree somewhat, but I guess Valiant was looking for a way to new villains without falling back on Gillie fighting drug lords and such.

[dornwolf]

Out of curiosity how many Houses and what roles do they have are known at this point. Mainly, do we know with the information given if all the houses have "swords" and most likely "speakers"

[BugsySig]

Out of curiosity how many Houses and what roles do they have are known at this point. Mainly, do we know with the information given if all the houses have "swords" and most likely "speakers"

House of the Earth - The Planet Earth (as a whole) - Fist and Steel (Gilad) - Geomancer (Clay/Kay McHenry)
House of the Wild - Wild Animals? - Sword (formerly Xaran and the dude Gilad pwned) - Unknown
House of the Dead - The Dead/Decaying? - Sword (Mitu) - Necromancer
House of the Wheel - Machines - Unknown - Unknown

[ShadowTuga]

House of the Wheel- Perhaps related to the nanites?

[Zaphod]

Tight continuity. It is what defined Valiant. It is what VEI has entirely tossed out the window. Hell early Image had this kind of "shared universe".

I just read 1-4 for the first time. As a story, it is interesting but in context of a shared universe with a pre-established character...I've come to realize you just can't go home again.

You had one job Valiant. One job...

[bygranddesign]

Tight continuity. It is what defined Valiant. It is what VEI has entirely tossed out the window. Hell early Image had this kind of "shared universe".

I just read 1-4 for the first time. As a story, it is interesting but in context of a shared universe with a pre-established character...I've come to realize you just can't go home again.

You had one job Valiant. One job...

VH1 was Jim Shooter

He ran the show and the writers conformed to his vision

I doubt we will ever see that type of tight continuity and long term vision in a superhero universe

VEI is a different beast

The fact that VEI's creative motto is "The best idea wins" is the first indication that this is not like the original universe. I very much doubt Jim Shooter would ever, ever say such a thing.

I think the VEI vision is more purposefully vague where things can happen more organically. Writers have leeway to do their own thing and create much of the mythology of a character (within certain guidelines i'm sure but nothing too stringent)

I think its mostly a good thing. I think its a more sensible approach to building up this universe. You want good writers to write with a certain amount of freedom to get the most out of their abilities.

But I do wish they had tighter editorial control ... This first arc of EW is a good example of an arc causing confusion because we have no idea when exactly its taking place (in relation to its appearance in A&A#5) and there are some definite continuity conflicts with what we know about EW in the A&A arc and what is said in this arc.

[Scarlet-Batman]

I liked this issue but... I really dislike how it does not jive with how we have seen Gilad in previous stories.

I feel like Gilad gave up being Fist and Steel too early and/or he returned to the Earth too late in the game. This would feel a lot better if he ended his relationship with the Earth in the 20th century or perhaps re-established his relationship in the 80's. 2 years just isn't long enough, for me. It feels like an after thought. Which, sadly, it probably is.

One way I reconcile Gilad's characterization in A&A is via the idea that we are seeing Gilad through the eyes of A&A, which is more idealized than perhaps reality truly is.

This whole House thing makes a lot of sense but feels like it is cribbing a bit too much of the Red (animals), the Green (plants) and the Rot (death) from Animal Man and Swampthing. I hope VEI expands upon the idea and makes it more unique.

[Captain Craig]

This whole House thing makes a lot of sense but feels like it is cribbing a bit too much of the Red (animals), the Green (plants) and the Rot (death) from Animal Man and Swampthing. I hope VEI expands upon the idea and makes it more unique.

I had had this thought as well but then thought "what if I'm just reading too much into it".
I think the reason I did was cause I had also read one of those books alongside an issue of EW and thought I may be super imposing.

Maybe I wasn't.

[BugsySig]

This whole House thing makes a lot of sense but feels like it is cribbing a bit too much of the Red (animals), the Green (plants) and the Rot (death) from Animal Man and Swampthing. I hope VEI expands upon the idea and makes it more unique.

I had had this thought as well but then thought "what if I'm just reading too much into it".
I think the reason I did was cause I had also read one of those books alongside an issue of EW and thought I may be super imposing.

Maybe I wasn't.

I had the same thought, but only last week...not sure what sparked it all of a sudden, but it is similar.

[hunter_peterson]

This whole House thing makes a lot of sense but feels like it is cribbing a bit too much of the Red (animals), the Green (plants) and the Rot (death) from Animal Man and Swampthing. I hope VEI expands upon the idea and makes it more unique.

I had had this thought as well but then thought "what if I'm just reading too much into it".
I think the reason I did was cause I had also read one of those books alongside an issue of EW and thought I may be super imposing.

Maybe I wasn't.

I had the same thought, but only last week...not sure what sparked it all of a sudden, but it is similar.

I think there are subtle enough differences to make it unique on it's own. The Earth is not plants, though a House of the Harvest would be cool. It's a manifestation of life itself, and it works to balance all the other Houses against each other in order to maintain the Earth as a life-giving thing. That's diametrically opposed to the Green/Red/Rot, all of which want to cause imbalance in their world's system.

The Wild does seem similar to the Red, though, except that it's specifically tied to the protection of the places that aren't human. In that sense it's more environmentalist than animal-focused. They have a kinship with animals because they are the representatives of the places they thrive in.

And the Dead are different because unlike the Rot they don't represent decay, but loss. They're more like the Freudian "death urge" or Thanatos. They represent what has already passed and the urge to die. In that way they're a great foil for an immortal; he must want to die a lot. I think the House of the Grave would be a better name, though.

Plus, the House of the Wheel is unique to Valiant and I bet there's a lot more we've yet to see. They're basically the opposite of the Wild, I think.

[Baramos]

Does any of the technology in this arc distinctly mess with this arc taking place in the early '50s, before he joins MI6 or what have you? I had hopes for that, then I noticed in EW4 that Buck is driving a car...It's pretty obscured, but obviously doesn't seem to fit a 1950s car profile at all.

I honestly think this doesn't coincide well with his fighting the Null throughout history if this is really set in 2010. I mean, maybe we can presume 1. he would fight the Null without specifically being the Fist & Steel while doing so, just because he feels they're a threat to the entire human race and 2. while in the hallucinatory state while being revived right after the Kennedy Assassination, he was in spirit form and therefore not really dealing with his human emotions when he is incredibly reverent of the Earth when he speaks to her (he even calls her "mother").

EDIT: Yep, it really are the cars that mess up this possibility. We could even presume the House of the Wheel has access to the advanced technology not known in the 1950s, or that there'd be a supermarket/gun store that big in the 1950s (undoubtedly not, at least not in a suburban mall-type area). But basically ever vehicle is far too modern for the 1950s.

[caxiotis]

Just read issue #4, and I don't really get what this arc was trying to do. Overall thought the whole thing was mediocre and I didn't like Hairsine's art. Not sure how this whole arc fits into A&A #5-8

[Carson]

Just read issue #4, and I don't really get what this arc was trying to do. Overall thought the whole thing was mediocre and I didn't like Hairsine's art. Not sure how this whole arc fits into A&A #5-8

Supposedly it came before the A&A arc. That answers some continuity issues, but still doesn't make me love the arc.

Someone else on here said it best, first arcs should tell the reader who a character is and what they believe in... not who they were and are now trying to destroy. It just felt off.

High hopes for the next 4001 arc!

[bribri]

Just read the TPB today, issues 1-4.

Felt a lot better about it reading it a second time and reading it as a collection. The houses and direction made a lot more sense than it did reading the monthlies.

[Aomalle27]

Why'd they hype Gilad's dead son in issue 3, and NOT EVEN mention him in this issue? Weird, especially since he looked so badass.

[etos45]

Okay, I know I'm late to the party, but I finally read this arc and I have to... vent?

First, I love the concept going on in this story. This could be a really good book over time.

With that said, that wasn't a very good arc from a story telling perspective. I spent the whole time going "huh?" and that's not a good thing. If this story takes place 2 years prior to A&A #5, then it should say "2010" not "Now". Now is 2014 (or 2013 then). I shouldn't have to come on a message board to find out that Dino said it was two years prior. It should be clear.

Buck still being alive after all this time threw me off too. So it was established in VH1 that geomancers live longer lives? What if I didn't read VH1? Why not establish that in the story so that I'm not trying to figure out why he hasn't aged? I know why EW doesn't age, that was established in the A&A arc.

Just a personal pet peeve for me... don't just randomly select cities for storytelling (this may have actually been issue #3, but I read them all together). Dunwoody, Ga may sound like a backwoods, hickville... but it's actually very uppity and filled with the yuppies. You are not going to find a gun mart there. It seems like they did this in Harbinger too. It's like, "We need a backdrop for a hillbilly hoedown. Pick a city in Georgia that isn't Atlanta!"

So to sum up my thoughts, I think this story would have been much better if fleshed out more over two arcs. It felt like they were rushing so that they could get to 4001 in issue #5 and that REALLY hurt this story. One of the reasons that I think X-O and Harbinger are so great is because they didn't rush to get you to the adventures. They took their time and really introduced you to the characters.