Harbinger #19 Discussion

[depluto]

Great book, great story ... Dysart is the man.

I keep waiting to see what Pete can do. He's supposedly a Harada-level badass but he never seems to really get going. Every time he does Harada just swats him away, even when he is unconscious.

[BugsySig]

I don't think anyone posted the theory that Torque could've survived on his own, just thanks to his mental projection? He survived a fall from the top of the building, a fall from a helicopter in issue 9 or 10, he's pretty sturdy.
I thought Ingrid's "I'm sorry master" was because she had to let him mind squall the whole building, essentially destroying the building, and killing basically everyone inside of it.
For me though, the best part of this issue was the preview for #20! I can't friggin wait!

A simple explanation? Nah...I don't buy it

[bygranddesign]

I don't think anyone posted the theory that Torque could've survived on his own, just thanks to his mental projection? He survived a fall from the top of the building, a fall from a helicopter in issue 9 or 10, he's pretty sturdy.
I thought Ingrid's "I'm sorry master" was because she had to let him mind squall the whole building, essentially destroying the building, and killing basically everyone inside of it.
For me though, the best part of this issue was the preview for #20! I can't friggin wait!

A simple explanation? Nah...I don't buy it

What is simple explanation? Simple does not compute.. Explaaain! Explaaainn!

[bygranddesign]

Another Dysart seed planted to further my insanity?

I wonder if Harada saying he doesn't even remember making the call to kill Joe is another indication that perhaps it has indeed been the Bleeding Monk who is the true villain behind the scenes manipulating both Harada and Peter into this war against each other....

[BugsySig]

Another Dysart seed planted to further my insanity?

I wonder if Harada saying he doesn't even remember making the call to kill Joe is another indication that perhaps it has indeed been the Bleeding Monk who is the true villain behind the scenes manipulating both Harada and Peter into this war against each other....

I read it more like a human life really didn't mean that much to him, but it could be the Monk influenced him somehow.

[Carson]

I don't think anyone posted the theory that Torque could've survived on his own, just thanks to his mental projection? He survived a fall from the top of the building, a fall from a helicopter in issue 9 or 10, he's pretty sturdy.
I thought Ingrid's "I'm sorry master" was because she had to let him mind squall the whole building, essentially destroying the building, and killing basically everyone inside of it.

^ I agree on both points ^

[pixierosa]

Great issue! I love this book. It consistently rocks. Lots of interesting visuals and settings/mindscapes this issue.

The scene where Pete calls Torque closer left me unsettled, too. I sincerely hope Torque was blown clear by the explosion - it's likely that he could survive a blast and fall. It did freak me out that only Faith was on the scene. Would the others have left Faith on her own to look for Torque? Weird.

Monica's creations were brutal and expedient. Guess we don't have to worry about those scurvy dog Kalfus brothers anymore. Like Sonicdan, loved Stronghold's reaction to the samurai (I read it in a Monty Python Holy Grail voice).

I'm not 100% on what Ingrid apologized for. I'm not certain it's that she allowed the mindsquall to begin - afterall, she warned and warned him. His hubris is what cost lives. She may feel some guilt because she knew (unlike Stronghold) the repercussions of Harada not taking his scheduled break. I think the apology was for whatever she did to Harada (mentally or physically) to cause the blast -- that was the only way she would have been able to stop Pete from killing Harada. She was gambling on being able to do that and get Harada incapacitated in time before a full-blown mind squall began. Part of it may also be that she placed Harada into a perfect day situation of his own. I think that he would absolute be incensed about that.

Excellent work again. I always want more!

[hawkeyeps]

CBR just gave it 2 stars

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page ... ew&id=6770

WTF?!?

[bygranddesign]

CBR just gave it 2 stars

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page ... ew&id=6770

WTF?!?

completely ridiculous!

[Carson]

CBR just gave it 2 stars

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page ... ew&id=6770

WTF?!?

That guy's an idiot. This was a great arc. Bring on the next one!

[sonicdan]

[jmatt]

I need your budget.

[nonplayer]

Bull ship review... Great issue I say its the best arc of valiant so far. Dysart is my hero. One problem im having is the time lines valiant really need to fix this cuz it a huge distraction. 5/5

[lorddunlow]

I also agree with Bugsy

I never get tired of hearing that

I never get tired of hearing you agree with me

[comicsyte95]

Another Dysart seed planted to further my insanity?

I wonder if Harada saying he doesn't even remember making the call to kill Joe is another indication that perhaps it has indeed been the Bleeding Monk who is the true villain behind the scenes manipulating both Harada and Peter into this war against each other....

[lorddunlow]

Great end to a great arc. Dysart is awesome. Between this book, Bloodshot, and A&A (and with the new take on Shadowman - possibly adding that one to this list), VEI is sitting pretty. If these stories aren't still going strong in 10 years something is wrong!

I'm pretty sure Ingrid apologized for triggering his mind squall. I think she vastly underestimated Peter as she said he might not be able to save just himself, but he (presumably) saved all of the Renegades. Cannot wait for the next issue.

Not happy I lost the bet, but happy Torque is still around.

Who thinks the Kris preconcious meeting the Kris subconscious will result in a little bit nutso Kris in the aftermath of all of this?

[lorddunlow]

To add to the Torque discussion about what's happening at the end, Dysart has mentioned both in interviews and his thread here that Torque is as impervious or as strong as he feels he should be - specifically stating that this makes him both very vulnerable and nearly invincible depending on his state of mind . I think he came to a full realization when he saw his own brain in Torquehalla and has now taken full control of his powers. I think Dysart left him beyond Pete's protective field to prove that he is now much more indestructible in his new self-actualized state. I actually see him becoming a major threat to Harada.

My explanation for only Faith appearing is that they sent her because she can fly around and find Torque quickly while Peter whisked the others to a safe location.

My question is who the heck is the body lying behind Torque in this panel:

[lorddunlow]

Also, I just re-read Harbinger #8. Couple of things:

First this page


- Torque mentions stars being snuffed by a sorcerer. Is Torque the sorcerer? Does this mean there are other ways his powers could manifest and the particular power set is due to this fantasy self being the dominant one at the time Peter activated him? Or, is the sorcerer actually Harada who mind wiped him when he was deemed a reject?

I think Dysart had the end of Perfect Day planned out when he wrote this issue as he states that one day only one in Torquehalla will be left which is sort of how #19 wraps up.

Then this page


He "finds" the stars of Torquehalla inside himself! This leads me to believe that the "sorcerer" mentioned in the other page is actually another fantasy persona of Torque - perhaps a darker (read: evil) persona. Perhaps we see this persona re-emerge at will (or against his will) with powers more similar to Harada and Peter?

[apainter]

I kind of agree with an earlier comment -- Pete never gets to cut loose. He always gets waylaid by something or other before he does. I wonder if it's even possible for Pete to be as strong as Harada? We've never heard of Pete having these "sleep cycles", or doing all the multitasking that Harada does.

In Original Valiant, Harada vs. Pete lasted until issue 25, then the focus changed to Faith and the HF delinquents. I like that the end of this story indicates we're coming to the end of the Renegades' refugee period.

I hope Stronghold survived. He seems like Harada's lapdog, but I'd like to think that something inspired that kind of loyalty. (Actually, I guess we see Stronghold in the preview for # 20, don't we?)

That last scene with Torque and Faith reminds me of the end of Harbinger Wars. Perhaps everyone escaped but Torque. And poor Torque, he's really having a hard time coping, it seems. He's made several comments throughout the last dozen issues where he questions whether any of this is real. Hopefully the dude's not headed for a schizophrenic breakdown or something.

Last issue, Peter's dream mentioned "Maggie". (Maggie Cona May Blossom, if you want to be formal!) She was Pete's dog in his dream. Maybe I'm just ultra sensitive when reading Dysart, but the name was bolded and mentioned twice. But Maggie was also the name of one of the Gen Zero kids, and her powers are explicitly listed as "unknown" in the Harbinger Wars. I wonder if she's not lurking around in the background somewhere, pulling strings.

I like Pixierosa hypothesis of how Bleeding Monk is operating in the background, but I have to admit, I'm a little bit disappointed we haven't gotten more confirmation of his presence in this arc. His most high profile sighting was on the cover of # 18! (And that would be my major problem if "Maggie" is lurking in the background -- too many puppeteers!)

Art

[hunter_peterson]

I think we haven't seen Peter have mind squalls or sleep cycles like Harada because he simply doesn't stay up super humanly long periods of time. Or maybe it's because Harada has the same powers but has lived with them for decades! who knows?

Great issue, totally loved it. Hope Animalia sticks around. (That CBR review was bull carp.)

[jmatt]

Also, I just re-read Harbinger #8. Couple of things...

Wow, I gotta go back and reread those issues.

[Captain Craig]

Yeah, same here, for sure had forgotten that panel from issue #8.
The added context sheds way more light/questions on things with Tork!

[krylox]

Great issue! I love this book. It consistently rocks.

+1

4/5

[Dallow Spicer1]

Enjoyable read, couple of things detracted from my overall enjoyment. Firstly, Animalia, I can't get used to those cartoon character she projects, it takes me out of the story. My second minor quibble is the art change in the Torquehalla scenes, not a big fan of that style.

3/5 - still in my top 2 VEI books (along with XO).

[leonmallett]

A nice solid end to things. Time to move on from the Torquehalla stuff (won't miss it, and hope it does not return any time soon, sorry to say), but things were really torn apart for the Harbinger Foundation, at least at this location. It will be interesting to see how this is reflected nit only in the short-term, but also the long-term as it has been such a vital part of Harada's position as antagonist.

I really hope Animalia joins the team. Before reading this thread my big reservation was power overlap with Torque, but having read some of the theories in this thread, that may not actually be a problem.

With the arc as a whole, and the Harbinger Wars story preceding it, Harbinger as a book has picked up for me and feels it has moved forwards tangibly. I am very much looking forwards to seeing where it goes next (as long as it is not back to bloody Torquehalla!).