Harbinger #19 Discussion

[BugsySig]

What an amazing issue. This had everything in it: Mind Squalls, Humble Bumble, Kardashian Mermaids, midgets on skateboards...no, wait, that was the club I was at last night...or was that Bughalla?

Anyway...I really thought for a moment that Torque wasn't making it out alive and we'd end up with ten pages of JMatt and Dunlow arguing over who won their bet. Thank god that's not the case and TORQUE LIVES!

I wonder what will happen with Monica Jim from here? Will she stick with the Renegades? Not sure where else she could go

Next month: No more running!

[tchalla8]

OK, I really, REALLY enjoyed this issue. Great read. But can someone explain to me how what's going on with Harada fits into the Unity continuity? He's a drooling mess in this issue, but in Unity he's waging war with Aric? How does this jive? In issue #18 they already acknowledged he was currently juggling this war with Aric in Romania. Seems like there's a disconnect in the continuity now.

[BugsySig]

OK, I really, REALLY enjoyed this issue. Great read. But can someone explain to me how what's going on with Harada fits into the Unity continuity? He's a drooling mess in this issue, but in Unity he's waging war with Aric? How does this jive? In issue #18 they already acknowledged he was currently juggling this war with Aric in Romania. Seems like there's a disconnect in the continuity now.

I think this takes place just prior to Unity. Last issue mentioned he was monitoring the situation in Romania, but I don't believe he was actively involved yet.

[sonicdan]

I loved this issue! Great conclusion to "Perfect Day".
Stronghold's reaction to Samurai Sue was hilarious. The carnage at the HGC was gnarly and intense. Poor Ingrid. She tried to warn him.
I enjoyed the diversity of the environments and visuals: Torquehalla, Pete's perfect day, Harada's construct, Monica Jim's creations and the real world.
Nice to see the Renegades all awake and back together. I hope Monica Jim sticks with them. She's make a good addition to the team.
5 out of 5 for me. Looking forward to the next arc!
DAN

[bygranddesign]

great issue

8/10

But I think being mind *SQUEE* by Dysart over and over again has got me questioning everything

I'm very suspicious by what happened at the end - Faith and Torque were acting... strangely...

Peter tells Torque to stay close when the MIND SQUALL starts happening .. but we don't see Torque until its over and he is smashed into a Taco truck outside the building. Why didn't the squall kill him? Crazy theory ... but maybe Peter in desperation absorbed him like the way Hive does..? Does a little mind voodoo in order to have him forget this fact .. and torque begins projecting his superhero persona from inside Peter's head - Like Monica Jim did with her projections while she was sleeping.

yeah ... i know .. Dysart has completely mind *SQUEE* me .. he mind *SQUEE* me good.

[BugsySig]

^^^^^^^^

I had a similar thought about how strange the ending was. Very similar to the end of Harbinger Wars. I have said that if Monica Jim joins the Tenegades, I think it would be as a replacement for Torque.

I don't think your theory is that off base. I think it's very possible Torque's real body died or that he is back in a "Perfect Day" situation somehow.

Sigh...the JMatt/Dunlow debate continues...

[hawkeyeps]

That's right Pete did say that to Torque and that scene was weird.

Maybe Torque is dead or something now but he definitely wasn't dead when he busted out of that tube. Dunlow losses sorry Besty

As strong as Unity was this was still my favourite issue this week. There is a lot going on here, I hope VEI can keep it tight especially with regards to Harada.

[BugsySig]

Oooh....What if Pete, who was in Animalia's head, is using her powers to create a hard-shell projection of a dead Torque so the others won't find out he is dead and continue to take their fight to Harada?

[jmatt]

To enjoy the issue more, I went back and did a quick reread on #18. Torque: "Our whole lives are like some crazy story written by a sadistic douch-e who never lets us win..."

Anyway, this title just gets better and better. There's just sooo much going on. Torque survives the mind squall because he asks Ingrid to shield him. She does so with "Forgive me master..." and Harada blows. Then we see her all crispy but still having managed to get Harada into a tank (which miraculously survived intact).

The page with Faith and Torque did have an odd vibe but I think Dysart has just gotten inside our heads a little. We don't know what to trust anymore and that's very cool.

I swear, the thing read like it was 40 pages for me. So many great environments and visuals. Monica Jim busting out as the giant gorilla, Torque engaging his psiot powers before leaving the tank...

I absolutely love this title.

Oh, and Dunlow and I have never argued about the bet. It's all in good fun.

[hawkeyeps]

Oooh....What if Pete, who was in Animalia's head, is using her powers to create a hard-shell projection of a dead Torque so the others won't find out he is dead and continue to take their fight to Harada?

Oooh... that sounds Haradaesque, Toyo warned him!

[bygranddesign]

Anyway, this title just gets better and better. There's just sooo much going on. Torque survives the mind squall because he asks Ingrid to shield him. She does so with "Forgive me master..." and Harada blows. Then we see her all crispy but sill having managed to get Harada into a tank (which miraculously survived intact).

I don't think torque would know who Ingrid was ... and whether she could help him. I believe that was Stronghold that asked for Ingrid's help.

When she says "Forgive me master.." - i'm actually not sure exactly why she says that.. Maybe she does something in order to stop his Mind Squall that will have some long term consequence on Harada ...

[BugsySig]

To enjoy the issue more, I went back and did a quick reread on #18. Torque: "Our whole lives are like some crazy story written by a sadistic douch-e who never lets us win..."

Anyway, this title just gets better and better. There's just sooo much going on. Torque survives the mind squall because he asks Ingrid to shield him. She does so with "Forgive me master..." and Harada blows. Then we see her all crispy but sill having managed to get Harada into a tank (which miraculously survived intact).

The page with Faith and Torque did have an odd vibe but I think Dysart has just gotten inside our heads a little. We don't know what to trust anymore and that's very cool.

I swear, the thing read like it was 40 pages for me. So many great environments and visuals. Monica Jim busting out as the giant gorilla, Torque engaging his psiot powers before leaving the tank...

I absolutely love this title.

Oh, and Dunlow and I have never argued about the bet. It's all in good fun.

I believe that was Stronghold asking Ingrid to shield him, not Torque. And me thinks he may be extra crispy.

Also, I don't think that was a Mind Squall at the end...I think it was just Harada defending himself. But I could be wrong.

[BugsySig]

Anyway, this title just gets better and better. There's just sooo much going on. Torque survives the mind squall because he asks Ingrid to shield him. She does so with "Forgive me master..." and Harada blows. Then we see her all crispy but sill having managed to get Harada into a tank (which miraculously survived intact).

I don't think torque would know who Ingrid was ... and whether she could help him. I believe that was Stronghold that asked for Ingrid's help.

When she says "Forgive me master.." - i'm actually not sure exactly why she says that.. Maybe she does something in order to stop his Mind Squall that will have some long term consequence on Harada ...

Beat me too it.

I think she's apologizing because she knows Harada wanted to keep Stanchek and the others alive. When she unleashed him at the end, she thought it will kill everyone.

[jmatt]

I don't think torque would know who Ingrid was ... and whether she could help him. I believe that was Stronghold that asked for Ingrid's help.

When she says "Forgive me master.." - i'm actually not sure exactly why she says that.. Maybe she does something in order to stop his Mind Squall that will have some long term consequence on Harada ...

I agree, I wondered myself how Torque would know Ingrid. But if so, that's a bad juxtaposition of events in back to back panels.

Pete: "Torque, you're in danger."
Big blonde guy in blue suit: "Ingrid, protect me."
Torque: "Wow, I lived."

Okay, having checked again, I'll agree that's Stronghold. His uniform has the upper red Harbinger uniform panels. But two big blonde guys in blue outfits needing assistance in a mere 3 or 4 panels? Less than clear.

And in the panel just before "Torque, you have to get closer" we see Torque out of his tube and standing next to Kris. How much closer does he have to be? A tad confusing.

I love that Torque lands on a taco truck. Ha!

[conspiracycamel]

I had a feeling Stronghold got cooked, but then I saw what looks like Stronghold in the preview for Harbinger #20, so I don't know...

Hope Torque makes it ok.

Last page is beautiful and interesting that the life Toyo envisions in his dream is one where his father returns.

As Ingrid said about the Dream Control Experiment in Harbinger #18, "It's not about fulfilling the captive's every wish, sir. It's about giving them the life they hoped for and seeing how the new experiences can change for the better. It's about letting them be who they wish they'd always been."

Ingrid got cooked too.

[jmatt]

As Ingrid said about the Dream Control Experiment in Harbinger #18, "It's not about fulfilling the captive's every wish, sir. It's about giving them the life they hoped for and seeing how the new experiences can change for the better. It's about letting them be who they wish they'd always been."

Hmm. Could that be what she's apologizing for? Dunking Harada in his own 'Perfect Day'?

Also, I think the explosion we see at the end is simply more of the explosion from when Pete tries to stop Harada's heart. Things happening quickly as the explosion reaches its max.

[ThatDarnCabbage]

Jesus, how many Harbinger students are left? They've been dying left and right. Saturn in Harbinger Wars, Panic in Bloodshot, The Unity team, and everyone in this issue. I don't see how anyone can possibly still work for him. He was causing the death of everyone he's recruited. I never got the impression there were all that many psiots working under him, this has to be a huge blow.

[BugsySig]

Jesus, how many Harbinger students are left? They've been dying left and right. Saturn in Harbinger Wars, Panic in Bloodshot, The Unity team, and everyone in this issue. I don't see how anyone can possibly still work for him. He was causing the death of everyone he's recruited. I never got the impression there were all that many psiots working under him, this has to be a huge blow.

The first arc showed a lot of students at the foundation while Pete was there. The number of older, more experienced, and more useful field operatives, however, may be on the decline.

[BugsySig]

Oooh....What if Pete, who was in Animalia's head, is using her powers to create a hard-shell projection of a dead Torque so the others won't find out he is dead and continue to take their fight to Harada?

THAT would be absolutely nuts...and brilliant.

I like Monica Jim, but I have to wonder how long everyone was in those tanks for. It seems like she sprout up a few inches or maybe its just me.

I think she was older in her dream world. We only saw a glimpse in the "real" world of her, but could have just been artist's license.

[Captain Craig]

Solid issue.
Was I the only one who had to pause for a moment when they returned to the virtual construct where Torqualla was and the escape by train? That narrative break threw me for a moment. Bet it reads really well as a trade cause it's been 90 days since I read those moments we abruptly returned to.

I also agree with Bugsy, I don't think this is a continuity issue with Unity #2 as the events here take place in an undetermined amount of time prior to Unity #1-4.

[BugsySig]

I also agree with Bugsy

I never get tired of hearing that

[hawkeyeps]

Oooh....What if Pete, who was in Animalia's head, is using her powers to create a hard-shell projection of a dead Torque so the others won't find out he is dead and continue to take their fight to Harada?

THAT would be absolutely nuts...and brilliant.

I like Monica Jim, but I have to wonder how long everyone was in those tanks for. It seems like she sprout up a few inches or maybe its just me.

I think she was older in her dream world. We only saw a glimpse in the "real" world of her, but could have just been artist's license.

I don't think that she was necessarily older, I saw that as kid Pete from the Harada construct entering her construct. Pete was smaller than her and that's what may have made her look bigger/older.

[BugsySig]

Oooh....What if Pete, who was in Animalia's head, is using her powers to create a hard-shell projection of a dead Torque so the others won't find out he is dead and continue to take their fight to Harada?

THAT would be absolutely nuts...and brilliant.

I like Monica Jim, but I have to wonder how long everyone was in those tanks for. It seems like she sprout up a few inches or maybe its just me.

I think she was older in her dream world. We only saw a glimpse in the "real" world of her, but could have just been artist's license.

I don't think that she was necessarily older, I saw that as kid Pete from the Harada construct entering her construct. Pete was smaller than her and that's what may have made her look bigger/older.

That could be true to. Then again, we saw in Pete's dream world that he was various ages as well: a teen/adolescent at one point, much younger the next day.

[bygranddesign]

As Ingrid said about the Dream Control Experiment in Harbinger #18, "It's not about fulfilling the captive's every wish, sir. It's about giving them the life they hoped for and seeing how the new experiences can change for the better. It's about letting them be who they wish they'd always been."

Hmm. Could that be what she's apologizing for? Dunking Harada in his own 'Perfect Day'?

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking ... She had to use her powers to enter his mind and create the perfect day experiment .. And perhaps this is something that she knew Harada would never want done to him.

Somehow also .. She is still alive even though she is extra crispy ... Unless she has wolverine mutant powers I'm guessing that once that link is broken with Harada - her body will die.

Another thought I have is that perhaps this perfect day takes some of the "Evil" edge off of Harada ... And that's why we see him a lot more "heroic" in Unity. It might not have been only need that made him get Livewire to help .. The Perfect Day might have made him more forgiving and remorseful.

[Bone-A-Fach-ee]

I don't think anyone posted the theory that Torque could've survived on his own, just thanks to his mental projection? He survived a fall from the top of the building, a fall from a helicopter in issue 9 or 10, he's pretty sturdy.
I thought Ingrid's "I'm sorry master" was because she had to let him mind squall the whole building, essentially destroying the building, and killing basically everyone inside of it.
For me though, the best part of this issue was the preview for #20! I can't friggin wait!