Bloodshot & the H.A.R.D. Corps 15 Discussion

[blujay]

Anybody else wondering when they're going to address what happened to Kara? She just kinda disappeared at the end of Harbinger Wars, and I'm pretty sure Bloodshot was supposed to pay her back for helping him.

Maybe she'll end up being the new Hot Shot?

Edit: just reread bloodshot #0 - 14 and realized he did pay her back, I just forgot about it

[Spylocke]

Anybody else wondering when they're going to address what happened to Kara? She just kinda disappeared at the end of Harbinger Wars, and I'm pretty sure Bloodshot was supposed to pay her back for helping him.

Maybe she'll end up being the new Hot Shot?

I'm thinking her and her missing brother might show up and get implanted. They can be both operatives and hostages for PRS.

[ShadowTuga]

Ok, I just finished reading this. I wasn't going to buy any more digital copies 'cept Harbinger 17, but since I only have to wait a couple of days between that book and my physical copies to arrive, I decided to buy Bloodshot and H.A.R.D. Corps 15 in order to get some new books this weekend.

I haven't read a post in this thread so forgive me for being repetitive. Either way I just wanted to say that this issue was a fantastic action book with filthy-rich character development. What a great *SQUEE* comic!!!!!
I'm truly blown away by the quality of the writing. Will reread it again in a week.
Wow.

[Big Red]

Loved this issue!

Yep, this book may be my new favorite Valiant title. Which is saying a lot!!!

[hawkeyeps]

Oh Man, CBR just gave it 2.5/5

WTF, here is the review-

"Bloodshot and H.A.R.D. Corps" #15 by Christos Gage, Joshua Dysart and Emanuela Lupacchino is engineered to accomplish two storytelling goals: first, to get Bloodshot back in action after his seeming elimination by Harada in the Harbinger Wars, and secondly, to have Bloodshot formally introduced to H.A.R.D. Corps and combine their forces into one team.

To achieve these ends, the action is fast-paced but heavy-handed. The central conflict of Bloodshot and H.A.R.D. Corps" #15 feels manufactured. H.A.R.D. Corps rescues Bloodshot from Harada, but inevitably, Palmer must square off against Bloodshot before winning him over, and most of the team members get an opportunity to show their chops in battle.

Despite the mechanical feeling of the overarching structure, in the middle of the issue, Dysart and Gage write some enjoyable and unexpected twists. Panic's appearance is unexpected and provokes the only humor in the script when the H.A.R.D. Corps men goofily freak out. Disciple's strength from his faith is also a strong note. Maniac's actions are unsurprising, given his codename, but Harada's response is shocking, even with all the violence that the character has been single-handledly responsible for before this.

The most fleshed-out members of "Bloodshot" previously were his old supporting cast, foils to his strength and muscle, like The Kid or Melissa. Their counter-balancing influences, which highlighted Bloodshot's humanity, have been replaced with soldiers who have killed children. The entire tone of the title has shifted even more heavily into a testosterone-heavy military feel. There are women present, but they exert little to no influence as characters so far.

The new H.A.R.D. Corps debuted during The Harbinger Wars crossover, and their characterization remains shallow. Besides Maniac's hyperactivity, the dialogue doesn't have distinctive speech patterns and what they say does little to distinguish them beyond playing to types. Palmer is the war-weary veteran father figure and leader, Maniac is the loose cannon, Superstar seems to be a good-natured jock, Granite is a stoic, devoted mother and Disciple is a devout believer.

True to the usual style and themes of "Bloodshot," and H.A.R.D. Corps, the action is heavy on gore and weaponry. Matching Emanuela Lupacchino as an artist for "Bloodshot and H.A.R.D. Corps" is an odd editorial choice. She handles the near-nonstop action well, but in matters of style, her work feels too bright and cheerful for a title that has only gotten grimmer. Lupacchino's work is cartoony rather than gritty or gory, and her figures are a little stiff. However, her panel transitions and sense of movement are strong, and her clean linework is attractive and reduces confusion for changes in setting. The script also doesn't make use of Lupacchino's gifts for spacious backgrounds. "Bloodshot" has never provided artists or colorists with much inspiration in setting, and "Bloodshot and H.A.R.D. Corps" #15 is no exception, with its backdrop of metal-walled, boring military compounds.

The weakest part of "Bloodshot and H.A.R.D. Corps" #15 is the end, in which Bloodshot and Palmer have a platitude-heavy conversation which is meant to prop up the issue-ending shot of Bloodshot upright and heroic-looking, ready to re-enter the fray.

With the convergence complete and Bloodshot semi-functional, future issues of "Bloodshot and H.A.R.D. Corps" #15 need to do more with character development to win readers over to the new lineup.

For me it was a 5/5 and think it has improved the Bloodshot title by leaps and bounds making it one of my favourite books now.

[BugsySig]

CBR reviews blow. We all know that. I bet this guy loved the last issue of Wolverine.

[hawkeyeps]

Interestingly enough it was Jennifer Cheng and I can remember her giving rather good reviews to Valiant in the past. That's why I was a little shocked by it, all the other feedback I've heard has been overwhelmingly positive.

[lorddunlow]

CBR reviews blow. We all know that. I bet this guy loved the last issue of Wolverine.

QFT

[BugsySig]

Interestingly enough it was Jennifer Cheng and I can remember her giving rather good reviews to Valiant in the past. That's why I was a little shocked by it, all the other feedback I've heard has been overwhelmingly positive.

She's nice and all, and has given a few decent reviews, but their reviews still blow. They also always put them out a week after the book is released. I've said before, and to her specifically, that smaller publishers should be reviewed first so potential readers might read them and possibly pick up the books. Meanwhile, the latest XMen book requires no reviews to gain readership and, even of it did, would be readily available several weeks later as they are typically over-ordered by retailers.

[hawkeyeps]

She complains about character development yet describes all the character types (minus the nuances and motivations).

This is the second issue for most of these characters and even Maniac, Gunslinger and Kozol only played a limited part in Harbinger Wars.

That's not a lot of screen time to set up everything we have going on now, I think Gage and Dysart have done an admirable job particularly with regards to character development.

I think the reviewer is way off base there.

[hawkeyeps]

Interestingly enough it was Jennifer Cheng and I can remember her giving rather good reviews to Valiant in the past. That's why I was a little shocked by it, all the other feedback I've heard has been overwhelmingly positive.

She's nice and all, and has given a few decent reviews, but their reviews still blow. They also always put them out a week after the book is released. I've said before, and to her specifically, that smaller publishers should be reviewed first so potential readers might read them and possibly pick up the books. Meanwhile, the latest XMen book requires no reviews to gain readership and, even of it did, would be readily available several weeks later as they are typically over-ordered by retailers.

I remember I was there with you Bro

I really need to post there more often and stir some *SQUEE*, I'll never forget our battle with Whacker and *SQUEE* stomping him when he was down

[ShadowTuga]

She complains about character development yet describes all the character types (minus the nuances and motivations).

This is the second issue for most of these characters and even Maniac, Gunslinger and Kozol only played a limited part in Harbinger Wars.

That's not a lot of screen time to set up everything we have going on now, I think Gage and Dysart have done an admirable job particularly with regards to character development.

I think the reviewer is way off base there.

That's a huge understatement bro- that's some digraceful review.
Wow.

[Carson]

Loving this arc. Gage and Dysart are doing a great job of fleshing out the HARD Corps and their supporting staff. I'm incredibly pleased with where this is heading, which is a big relief as I really enjoyed the first two Bloodshot arcs and was sad to see swerziensky go (spelling?).

I'm glad they touched on Bloodshot's thinking behind letting the kids stay in Harada's care. They needed to cover that. They were definitely cleaning up the Bloodshot Harbinger Wars arc's mess.

The art was decent. Her bloodshot reminds me of old school Sean Chen bloodshot.

[somewhatlazy]

Oh Man, CBR just gave it 2.5/5

It made the "read pile" in Hannibal Tabu's The Buy Pile:

"Bloodshot And H.A.R.D. Corps" #15 was a pretty good pivot from a previous status quo to a new one as Bloodshot returns to the employ of Project Rising Spirit (which seems odd but makes a kind of sense in context) and renewing the open conflict against mind powered Toyo Harada and his legions of X-Me ... er, students. As always, the artwork is top notch. Not bad, even as it made some questionable character decisions to force the point.

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She complains about character development yet describes all the character types (minus the nuances and motivations).

This is the second issue for most of these characters and even Maniac, Gunslinger and Kozol only played a limited part in Harbinger Wars.

That's not a lot of screen time to set up everything we have going on now, I think Gage and Dysart have done an admirable job particularly with regards to character development.

I think the reviewer is way off base there.

Yet I can agree with some of her points, especially in regards to the supporting cast. Goldie Boy and Kara helped 'ground' Bloodshot to a degree, offering a degree of humanity and compassion to a killing machine. Now he is surrounded by a group who have murdered children which they did, like Harada, because they believed it was the right thing to do.

Superstar is a standard jock, he falls into the same category as Torque, a stereotype character that Gage may be able to flesh out more if he survives long enough. His talk with Preacher was the most interesting. Preacher saves the day, but was it more due to the word of God saying it was okay to kill or more with a base self-preservation instinct? Granite runs home to hug the kids after seeing Harada rip out Maniac's brain. I would too.

Maniac had the best scenes and characterization, although we had to have our quota of blood and guts by having Harada kill him in that fashion and then of course, his brain explodes in his hands.....ew.

As for this new alliance, moral arguments with Palmer aside, Bloodshot jumped on the bandwagon way too quick and it did feel forced to a degree. He has no reason to trust PRS and no reason whatsoever to trust Kozol. Why would he believe the dog tags Kozol handed to him were for real? He has no way of knowing if they are or not. Unless this is some subtle gambit to gain the truth from the inside rather than storming the gates, I had a hard time seeing him suit up for the team this quickly.

Also, being able to program the nanites with the Harada Protocol, I find it hard to believe that PRS have little to no contingency plans for confronting Harada. Kozol's flippant comment to Palmer about developing a way to take him down in under an hour seems very odd.

The art was ok though I did like her version of Bloodshot as well. This was a good set-up issue but time to see how well this 'team-up' actually works.

[Big Red]

As for this new alliance, moral arguments with Palmer aside, Bloodshot jumped on the bandwagon way too quick and it did feel forced to a degree. He has no reason to trust PRS and no reason whatsoever to trust Kozol. Why would he believe the dog tags Kozol handed to him were for real? He has no way of knowing if they are or not. Unless this is some subtle gambit to gain the truth from the inside rather than storming the gates, I had a hard time seeing him suit up for the team this quickly.

But Bloodshot specifically stated that he didn't trust PRS.

I think it was more a matter of choosing the lesser of two evils.

I thought that this was addressed well in this issue.

What's worse? The *SQUEE* who knows that he is a *SQUEE* or the *SQUEE* who thinks that he's Jesus. Especially when the *SQUEE* who thinks that he's Jesus has vast telepathic and telekenetic powers?

Bloodshot didn't want to leave the nanites in Harada's hands. And who says that he has to give the nanites to PRS once he frees them from Harada?

[Carson]

As for this new alliance, moral arguments with Palmer aside, Bloodshot jumped on the bandwagon way too quick and it did feel forced to a degree. He has no reason to trust PRS and no reason whatsoever to trust Kozol. Why would he believe the dog tags Kozol handed to him were for real? He has no way of knowing if they are or not. Unless this is some subtle gambit to gain the truth from the inside rather than storming the gates, I had a hard time seeing him suit up for the team this quickly.

But Bloodshot specifically stated that he didn't trust PRS.

I think it was more a matter of choosing the lesser of two evils.

I thought that this was addressed well in this issue.

What's worse? The *SQUEE* who knows that he is a *SQUEE* or the *SQUEE* who thinks that he's Jesus. Especially when the *SQUEE* who thinks that he's Jesus has vast telepathic and telekenetic powers?

Bloodshot didn't want to leave the nanites in Harada's hands. And who says that he has to give the nanites to PRS once he frees them from Harada?

^ This is how I interpreted it as well. It didn't feel forced to me.

I'm glad they finally explained how Bloodshot justifies (in his own head) abandoning those children to Harada's tutelage.

[lorddunlow]

As for this new alliance, moral arguments with Palmer aside, Bloodshot jumped on the bandwagon way too quick and it did feel forced to a degree. He has no reason to trust PRS and no reason whatsoever to trust Kozol. Why would he believe the dog tags Kozol handed to him were for real? He has no way of knowing if they are or not. Unless this is some subtle gambit to gain the truth from the inside rather than storming the gates, I had a hard time seeing him suit up for the team this quickly.

But Bloodshot specifically stated that he didn't trust PRS.

I think it was more a matter of choosing the lesser of two evils.

I thought that this was addressed well in this issue.

What's worse? The *SQUEE* who knows that he is a *SQUEE* or the *SQUEE* who thinks that he's Jesus. Especially when the *SQUEE* who thinks that he's Jesus has vast telepathic and telekenetic powers?

Bloodshot didn't want to leave the nanites in Harada's hands. And who says that he has to give the nanites to PRS once he frees them from Harada?

+1 This is my take as well.

[String]

As for this new alliance, moral arguments with Palmer aside, Bloodshot jumped on the bandwagon way too quick and it did feel forced to a degree. He has no reason to trust PRS and no reason whatsoever to trust Kozol. Why would he believe the dog tags Kozol handed to him were for real? He has no way of knowing if they are or not. Unless this is some subtle gambit to gain the truth from the inside rather than storming the gates, I had a hard time seeing him suit up for the team this quickly.

But Bloodshot specifically stated that he didn't trust PRS.

I think it was more a matter of choosing the lesser of two evils.

I thought that this was addressed well in this issue.

What's worse? The *SQUEE* who knows that he is a *SQUEE* or the *SQUEE* who thinks that he's Jesus. Especially when the *SQUEE* who thinks that he's Jesus has vast telepathic and telekenetic powers?

Bloodshot didn't want to leave the nanites in Harada's hands. And who says that he has to give the nanites to PRS once he frees them from Harada?

Hm, I thought the nanites were more Kozol's prerogative.

I'm not saying that I don't want to see this kind of team-up or change, I just wish more time was given to his coming back around to working for PRS again. He has no reason to trust Kozol, he knows next to nothing about Palmer and his team other than they carry out missions similar to the ones he undertook (and thus shows him that PRS hasn't changed at all). Yet he accepts Kozol's offer within 2 pages.

I would be very cautious about any information that Kozol would offer as 'the truth' so the only reason I can see for him really staying is his need now for the ongoing treatment for the damages done to his nanites. (Kozol compared it to what, having an auto-immune disease, didn't he?)

To me, this title doesn't flow as organically as some of the other VEI books. Armstrong sleeps with Mary-Maria and while shocking, it fits organically with what has gone before and what we know of the characters. Harbinger with Pete's Renegades are another example. Here though, some events seem forced to fit what is to come. Pulse leads Bloodshot to the PRS captives because he needs to be part of the HW crossover. Here, he needs to team up with the HARD Corps because, really, they're just being re-introduced.

Bloodshot working with PRS again, after everything he has learned and done in response, should be a Big Moment. Yet to me, it felt glossed over quickly so we can move onto their working together. Hopefully Gage will fill in the blanks and show the moral grey areas surrounding such a momentous decision.

[Spylocke]

I can buy Bloodshot going along with PRS for this since his life is on the line. I think it also helps that he's feeling like a failure at helping the kids in Harbinger Wars. I mean, when Harada seems like a better option you know you screwed up bad. I think that this is also about Bloodshot trusting Gunslinger more than PRS because Palmer's a straight shooter (no pun intended). No mindscrew or grand appeals to morality just a fellow soldier claiming to work for the lesser evil.

I wasn't really on board with Bloodshot leading H.A.R.D. Corps because my nerdy loyalty refuses to see anyone other than Gunslinger in that role but this doesn't feel forced to me. It feels urgent but not forced. The real trick will be finding a reason for Bloodshot to stay with PRS once he is physically well and stops feeling guilty about the deaths in Harbinger Wars.

[Baramos]

I thought the art was a bit of a letdown, it was poorly drawn at points, last issue did not strike me that way. Some of the action poses and such just looked bad in my opinion. Not sure how quickly this had to be put out, though, so my sympathies lie with the artist, it's possible this art had to be drawn in 2 weeks or something. The plotting was also very slapdash and seemed intent on just getting from point A to point B to point C as quickly as possible to get Bloodshot back working for PRS by the end of this one issue. It's unfortunate that they feel like all these new story arcs have to be exactly 4 issues instead of evolving organically which may make them 5 or 6 issue arcs.

Again, big let down from #14 which I think was maybe my favorite Valiant book last month.

EDIT: By the way, what does the shot of the red-headed kid on the monitor in Harada's lab where he is "decoding" the nanites mean? It's been a while, is that was the "goldies" kid looked like?

[Phoenix8008]

EDIT: By the way, what does the shot of the red-headed kid on the monitor in Harada's lab where he is "decoding" the nanites mean? It's been a while, is that was the "goldies" kid looked like?

I thought it was supposed to be the "golden boy" myself. What mischief will he be working in Harada's systems while he's away chasing BS & HC, I wonder?

[Dallow Spicer1]

I thought this was a decent read but I wasn't as blown away as others on the board, maybe a second read will help. Palmer, as a character, seems a tad cliched and dialogue in parts seems a bit 'iffy', eg Maniac's little speech before he gets killed.

Definitely not keen on the art, not that it's bad it's just not gritty enough for this book (it is reminiscent if Sean Chen's art but I'd offer the same criticism of that too).

3/5 (possible a 3.5 with different art). Certainly moving in a good direction so I remain optimistic the book's in good hands from a writing perspective. Not in my top 3 VEI books yet though.

[blujay]

She complains about character development yet describes all the character types (minus the nuances and motivations).

This is the second issue for most of these characters and even Maniac, Gunslinger and Kozol only played a limited part in Harbinger Wars.

That's not a lot of screen time to set up everything we have going on now, I think Gage and Dysart have done an admirable job particularly with regards to character development.

I think the reviewer is way off base there.

Yet I can agree with some of her points, especially in regards to the supporting cast. Goldie Boy and Kara helped 'ground' Bloodshot to a degree, offering a degree of humanity and compassion to a killing machine. Now he is surrounded by a group who have murdered children which they did, like Harada, because they believed it was the right thing to do.

Superstar is a standard jock, he falls into the same category as Torque, a stereotype character that Gage may be able to flesh out more if he survives long enough. His talk with Preacher was the most interesting. Preacher saves the day, but was it more due to the word of God saying it was okay to kill or more with a base self-preservation instinct?

As for this new alliance, moral arguments with Palmer aside, Bloodshot jumped on the bandwagon way too quick and it did feel forced to a degree. He has no reason to trust PRS and no reason whatsoever to trust Kozol. Why would he believe the dog tags Kozol handed to him were for real? He has no way of knowing if they are or not. Unless this is some subtle gambit to gain the truth from the inside rather than storming the gates, I had a hard time seeing him suit up for the team this quickly

I agree with the top part 100%, the entire point of the HW crossover issues were to establish Bloodshot as a man and to a degree, a father. While people on these boards don't seem too fond of them I thought they were some of the strongest issues of the series, because they brought a much needed humanity to a character who was literally a ruthless killing machine. Although I am enjoying the series I'm just hoping for the side characters to make a return, although last time I made complaints about something like this I was proven wrong almost instantly by a future issue, so maybe we should just wait before leveling our complaints. I think Dysart is too clever to just let stuff like that go away without any mention.

I have to disagree with the rest of this though. Disciple didn't kill because "the word of God saying it was okay to kill", the scene was to demonstrate that his faith in god allowed him to overcome the crippling fear that the others couldn't, not that god said "waste this guy". He signed up knowing he'd have to kill tons of people, I think he's already had his talks with god in that regard.

[jmatt]

I have to disagree with the rest of this though. Disciple didn't kill because "the word of God saying it was okay to kill", the scene was to demonstrate that his faith in god allowed him to overcome the crippling fear that the others couldn't, not that god said "waste this guy". He signed up knowing he'd have to kill tons of people, I think he's already had his talks with god in that regard.

That's how I read it. And I might add that he probably views himself as a warrior, and there are plenty of religious people in the military and police forces. He's not randomly killing people, he believes he's fighting to keep other people from harm's way. I see no disconnect there.