Harbinger #15 Discussion

[Blood of Heroes]

Get inside them, like Carter. (just had to throw that in there. That's how he made Hunter a ticking time bomb.)

New theory: Carter's brain is inside a PRS activated psiot sea lion.

[CallMeBloodshot]

*SQUEE* was this issue amazing. All I could think about while reading this is "this comic is effing brilliant".

This is, no joke, probably the best Harbinger issue thus far. Maybe even the best issue out of Valiant. TONS of characterization. Pete and Faith look to be building an intimacy, maybe even romantic by the looks of it, Charlene and Kris bonding, and we learned lots more about Torque and how his physical projection is basically just that - a way to guard off the world and hide his insecurities. And just as this all was happening Kris freaking, out of no where, decides to murder him! I had a feeling that she was being *SQUEE* by someone, possibly Harada. He could have preyed on her as she was the one with no powers, and maybe because of his little personal vendetta against her now. Oh and that Lou Reed lyric at the end was just so fitting for this issue. A story that starts off all happy and nice and slowly spins out of control like a bad acid trip into madness. It really tied a bow on the whole issue and made it something of a whole. I'd say this is a masterpiece issue from Valiant, and yet another feather in Dysart's cap. I can't get that Lou Reed song out of my head now.

I just hope Torque isn't dead! He really REALLY grew on me this issue. Just seeing him for all his insecurities, I really felt for him. Holy *SQUEE* do I love these characters. This book is great and getting better all the time, but it always shines that much more when the action slows down just a tad and Dysart gets to work his magic fleshing out and exploring these characters further.

Bravo! Valiant knocked it out of the park with Quantum and Woody last week and they've done it again, maybe even topping themselves. 5/5!!!

[CallMeBloodshot]

Oh and wheres that Q&W t shirt that was advertised in Harbinger!!??

Must.have.now!

[jmatt]

I got to the end of the second page, where the title is laid out and said "Oh, man, can't this just end here?" The gang was just so happy and at peace... you knew it was gonna spiral out of control.

I was worried with every new page just waiting to see what was gonna go wrong. Dysart keeps you on the edge of your seat by making you love the characters.. and worry about their weaknesses and flaws.

When Pete made the salesman give them cars, I felt let down, like he was slipping back into his old ways. But then you have moments of intimacy, possibly unrequited love, Torque seeing his first live band and being so excited...

It's an emotional rollercoaster. This is storytelling at its finest.

[mateo107]

wow, never saw that coming. I hope it's not like how they killed Captain America the first issue after Civil War, it sounds like it could be an imagined death, but then again, Torque does have a history of that, doesn't he?

anyway, as a resident of the Venice boardwalk, I felt they captured the local flavor quite well, I was almost looking to see if I ended up in the background somewhere.

[Blood of Heroes]

anyway, as a resident of the Venice boardwalk, I felt they captured the local flavor quite well, I was almost looking to see if I ended up in the background somewhere.

I was expecting to see Dysart in the background.

[Zaphod]

SHE BEAT A CRIPPLE TO DEATH WITH A SKATEBOARD!!!!

Jesus Christ!

I know! This isn't the Walking *SQUEE* Dead, Josh!

[Bone-A-Fach-ee]

You know, I assumed from VH1 history, that yes, this was going to be the time that Kris and Torque got together. I really was thinking that all the way up until she killed him. I think it's for real. I think Torque is dead. Anything else would be a cop out at this point. Dead is dead.
But yes, obviously, someone is screwing with their heads, but who, right?
Was not a huge fan of the artwork. Can't put my finger on it, but not the best Harby art work we've seen in VEI.
The issue is still resonating in my head, and I'm sure will be for quite a while.

[Labtech1]

Just like everyone else... WTF IS GOING ON!

Great insight from everyone, I think the inception idea is a strong possibility, a couple of observations...

1. Peter had his *SQUEE* handed to him, unless time has significantly passed or he has wolverines healing he would still be lumped up.
2. Sea Lion was definitely mentioned to many times for there not to be a connection...maybe...
3. With out going back to quote someone mentioned it before, they are all way to happy, and having a "perfect" day, very strange.

Great thing about Josh is I got that "shinning" moment from Kris before she did anything. While reading the las pages I could see it coming like a car crash in slow motion, and just wanted to see what happened. Great set up for a new arc and I can't wait for issue 16!

P.s. issue 18 seems not to have a picture posted, anyone have that problem? ...or did Dino have them pull it because it reveals to much...just a thought

[lorddunlow]

I feel like somehow Dysart slipped LSD into my book. I don't even know what I read. Can't be real. Gotta read it again.

[comicsyte95]

This has got to be a dream in someones head,, or mind control,or a breakdown maybe by the stress of the events in Vegas.
this things don't add up to me
1)I don't think a major character like Torque to die by a death being beaten by a skateboard.
2)Peter healing so quick.
3)Peter and Faith together
4)Torque crying like a baby
5)Charlene kissing Kris(any Kris enjoying it)

[ShadowTuga]

This and A&A12 made my month.
After the first couple of pages, I stopped and just admired Dysart's talent to give distinctive voices to a group of people. People, not comic book stereotypical dudes/dudettes.
Read the rest of the issue with a smile on my face; I particularly enjoyed Torque's discovery of a live Metal show. As a fan of that type of music, I can relate to that and remember my 1st time at a show.

Then the last page. I was shocked by how under the radar it came, I NEVER saw anything like that coming; as a matter of fact, I was thinking they were going to do the Beast of 2 Backs, or wtv Archer calls it.

I'M that this is an allucination sort of thingy. But the execution was perfect, and I think it was the best Harbinger issue since Renegades.

5/5 to me.

[MarrowMan]

I hope no one is surprised by Torques "apparent" demise. For obvious reasons.

[bribri]

You know, I assumed from VH1 history, that yes, this was going to be the time that Kris and Torque got together. I really was thinking that all the way up until she killed him. I think it's for real. I think Torque is dead. Anything else would be a cop out at this point. Dead is dead.
But yes, obviously, someone is screwing with their heads, but who, right?
Was not a huge fan of the artwork. Can't put my finger on it, but not the best Harby art work we've seen in VEI.
The issue is still resonating in my head, and I'm sure will be for quite a while.

I agree with "Dead is dead." However, we don't even know if he's dead in the first place. Hallucination theories aside, she beat the hell out of him with a skateboard, but we don't know that it killed him... So, no cop out yet!

[lorddunlow]

I hope no one is surprised by Torques "apparent" demise. For obvious reasons.

Well, I was surprised, but I fell for the red herring. In the panel preceding the "murder", I was really thinking that they were going to have a romantic encounter ala VH1. I was thinking, "Dysart, are you really going to just rehash the VH1 Kris/Torque thing? I thought you were better than that." I was completely taken off guard when she beat his brains in! I'm sure Dysart has been waiting to screw with everyone's head ever since he thought about this.

[tchalla8]

I hope no one is surprised by Torques "apparent" demise. For obvious reasons.

Well, I was surprised, but I fell for the red herring. In the panel preceding the "murder", I was really thinking that they were going to have a romantic encounter ala VH1. I was thinking, "Dysart, are you really going to just rehash the VH1 Kris/Torque thing? I thought you were better than that." I was completely taken off guard when she beat his brains in! I'm sure Dysart has been waiting to screw with everyone's head ever since he thought about this.

I got suckered into that, too, and I was gonna be pretty mad about it if he went the obvious route. I should have known better.

[MoonChild]

Just cause he died in the original does not mean he has to die this time around, that's always been my stand, especially cause he's wayyyy cooler than he was in the original.

[kjjohanson]

If he is alive in the next issue I will feel like it's a total cop out, despite what people say, it's obvious the reader is meant to believe him dead at the end of the comic. I hate hallucination or dream sequence cop outs. The Harbingers were due for a casualty. The irony here is it came right after a big battle.

Here's the thing: Storytelling 101 would tell you that it would be a poorly-crafted story for it to be revealed next issue that this whole thing is a dream, hallucination, alternate universe, etc. without providing some hint to the reader that that's what's going on. Kris appearing to herself (an external self that's not trapped in this imagined reality) is that hint. So, not "real."

Not sure if this is just a disconnect with what we've seen previously or a hint into Charlene's character, but having her pursue a higher level of reading doesn't fit with what we've seen. There was an issue of Harbinger Wars where I had the same reaction. I'm going to have to re-read and then re-visit this.

Either way, I believe Torque now has more VEI appearances that VH1, no?

[MoonChild]

From Josh's FB page:
ME: Hey Warren, people seem way more worked up/blown away/upset/*SQUEE* off by the end of Harbinger 15 than I thought they'd be.
Warren: Yeah! Isn't it great! People love it, Bro.
ME: Yeah... I guess...
Warren: Yeah!
ME: Uhm... maybe I made the wrong decision. Maybe we shouldn't have done this the way we did.
Warren: Regrets... achieve... nothing.
ME: Well, I was thinking. What if I rewrote 16?
Warren: Dude. Barry is almost done drawing the issue, Bro.
ME: We could scrap it and do it again! Woody Allen tossed out two films and redid them from scratch in the 80's! We got, what? Like 28 days before it hits? We can totally do this!
Warren: (silence)
ME: Warren?
(Silence)
ME: ... hello.
Warren: I gotto go. I have Venditti on the other line. Get me the script for 19 by Monday.
ME: Oka--
<click>
ME: --ay...
ME:...
ME: Talk to you later then.

[lorddunlow]

From Josh's FB page:
ME: Hey Warren, people seem way more worked up/blown away/upset/*SQUEE* off by the end of Harbinger 15 than I thought they'd be.
Warren: Yeah! Isn't it great! People love it, Bro.
ME: Yeah... I guess...
Warren: Yeah!
ME: Uhm... maybe I made the wrong decision. Maybe we shouldn't have done this the way we did.
Warren: Regrets... achieve... nothing.
ME: Well, I was thinking. What if I rewrote 16?
Warren: Dude. Barry is almost done drawing the issue, Bro.
ME: We could scrap it and do it again! Woody Allen tossed out two films and redid them from scratch in the 80's! We got, what? Like 28 days before it hits? We can totally do this!
Warren: (silence)
ME: Warren?
(Silence)
ME: ... hello.
Warren: I gotto go. I have Venditti on the other line. Get me the script for 19 by Monday.
ME: Oka--
<click>
ME: --ay...
ME:...
ME: Talk to you later then.

That's great! He's had a few great responses to reader feedback on Twitter about it.

[lorddunlow]

So just saw a conversation of Twitter between Dysart and our lost compatriot Xtianhardy that makes it seem like Torque might actually be dead. Now, he may just be screwing with the fans again, but seems like he's saying he's actually dead.

I'd link to it if I could figure out how to link to a specific Twitter post.

[Blood of Heroes]

If I were a betting man, and I am, I'd say Torque is dead.

Any takers? I got $20 on it.

[lorddunlow]

If I were a betting man, and I am, I'd say Torque is dead.

Any takers? I got $20 on it.

I'm not taking it. I think he's dead as well. I think it is a hallucination/mind trip/something, but I think #16 will have Kris waking up with an actual dead Torque in front of her.

[MoonChild]

Bummer about Torque. Side note, my LCS gave me the 1:20 for cover instead of the Hairsine variant. Wonder why the mixup..

[bygranddesign]

Bummer about Torque. Side note, my LCS gave me the 1:20 for cover instead of the Hairsine variant. Wonder why the mixup..

And you pointed out this egregious mistake to your lcs?