Shadowman #9 Discussion

[xoharbinger]

Good issue excited to see where the new writer takes it but I wonder if the comic would have ended like.that if Justin was leaving....

[cavemold]

Really liked this issue as well. Ended quite nicely. Poor DOX.

[xoharbinger]

Really liked this issue as well. Ended quite nicely. Poor DOX.

I feel.like the darque thing though was ended really quickly :/ felt like a way for the new writer to not have to worry about him for a while.... Is that just me

[bygranddesign]

Really liked this issue as well. Ended quite nicely. Poor DOX.

I feel.like the darque thing though was ended really quickly :/ felt like a way for the new writer to not have to worry about him for a while.... Is that just me

Considering Master Darque has been the center of the 2 opening arc's (all 9 regular issues) + the #0 issue + the next issue(#10) for a continuation of his origin ... I don't think it has ended quickly at all. As much as I like Master Darque ... I'm looking forward to getting to know Jack, the Shadowman/loa origin and some other threat that has nothing to do with Darque.

[xoharbinger]

Really liked this issue as well. Ended quite nicely. Poor DOX.

I feel.like the darque thing though was ended really quickly :/ felt like a way for the new writer to not have to worry about him for a while.... Is that just me

Considering Master Darque has been the center of the 2 opening arc's (all 9 regular issues) + the #0 issue + the next issue(#10) for a continuation of his origin ... I don't think it has ended quickly at all. As much as I like Master Darque ... I'm looking forward to getting to know Jack, the Shadowman/loa origin and some other threat that has nothing to do with Darque.

Good point

[bygranddesign]

I thought this issue was solid overall... but was a continuation of the mixed results of JJ's run on Shadowman.

the good...
- enjoyable premise . and storyline came to a solid conclusion.
- some interesting insight into Darque
- baron samedi and the deadside continue to be very cool and interesting
- the demise of Dox was very well handled
- the art is really strong in the beginning and really strong at the end with RDLT's pages


the questionable stuff ....
- The dialogue was weak in spots
- Jack has had little training as Shadowman but figures out a way to defeat Darque who has been cultivating his powers, amassing power by wiping out Elysium masters for 100+ years ... it would have been cooler if Shadowman got his *SQUEE* kicked and then Baron Samedi faced off with Darque ... and while they were fighting that's when Shadowman gets up from his beating, takes out darque from behind and throw him onto the Tower to drain his powers...
- the loa/shadowman/jack relationship still confuses me. I guess Jack embraces his destiny as Shadowman and the Loa feeds him info but its not very well fleshed out, imo.
- The 'I have lots of friends and you are all alone idea didn't ring true to me ... Doesn't Master Darque have the Brethren - a whole sect that WORSIPS him?? and these twisted monsters he created ...don't they bend to his will? Who does Shadowman really have as friends?
- The art is weak in the middle


Overall ... i enjoyed it but didn't love the issue

solid 7.5/10 (B-) grade from me

[Donovan]

I don't know. I find I really have to put effort into understanding what in the hell is going on in this book. And when I do, it doesn't seem like it was worth the effort.

I wish I could come up with some concrete examples of things I didn't like, but just thinking about everything but issue #0 makes my head hurt.

[sonicdan]

This issue read kind of fast. It's good to see the overall arc come to a satisfactory conclusion.
I'm looking forward to the stand alone issues and seeing what the new writer may have in store.
Hopefully they won't have to use 5! or more different artists to complete it going forward.
I do like De La Torre's work. I also really like LaRosa's opening and ending pages:





He also did layouts too for the entire issue to help things along. I'll post those later on.
DAN

[bygranddesign]

very nice pages

yeah, hopefully the next arc has one artist throughout to go along with the new writer

hopefully a writer-artist pair that compliment each other

the constant change in artists within an issue definitely takes away from story

[SJS4]

RDLT is the ideal artist for this series imho, but Larossa is a close second. Really dig his art in general.

I thought the issue was okay, but overall i am just not in to this series (so far anyway). Curious to see what direction a new writer takes things. Also crossing my fingers that they can keep larossa and RDLT on board...

[BugsySig]

Not a bad issue. I thought the end to Darque was just fine, and I'm sure he'll be back. What the hell happened to Doctor Mirage, though?

I love RDLT and Larossa's pages, but Edwards pages were just not very good. I too hope one of those two or another artist with a similar style becomes the regular artist come issue #12.

[jmatt]

Great climax!

I loved the art throughout. Big changes in the book with Dox gone. At one point a few issues ago, Dox mentioned getting Jack "his training", I don't think we ever saw that though. If we had, it might have fleshed out Jack's ability to fight Darque.

"...knows every secret she told it (the loa)." Sandria? Is this a reference to Sandria and the loa having communicated in the past?

And I agree, it's time to put Darque on a shelf for awhile and see Jack do something else.

I feel for JJ. The book got off to a rocky start and I have my quibbles with the early plotting, but the last few issues have been terrific. A tip of the hat, Mr. Jordan.

[Bl00dsh0t]

I thought this issue was solid overall... but was a continuation of the mixed results of JJ's run on Shadowman.

the good...
- enjoyable premise . and storyline came to a solid conclusion.
- some interesting insight into Darque
- baron samedi and the deadside continue to be very cool and interesting
- the demise of Dox was very well handled
- the art is really strong in the beginning and really strong at the end with RDLT's pages


the questionable stuff ....
- The dialogue was weak in spots
- Jack has had little training as Shadowman but figures out a way to defeat Darque who has been cultivating his powers, amassing power by wiping out Elysium masters for 100+ years ... it would have been cooler if Shadowman got his *SQUEE* kicked and then Baron Samedi faced off with Darque ... and while they were fighting that's when Shadowman gets up from his beating, takes out darque from behind and throw him onto the Tower to drain his powers...
- the loa/shadowman/jack relationship still confuses me. I guess Jack embraces his destiny as Shadowman and the Loa feeds him info but its not very well fleshed out, imo.
- The 'I have lots of friends and you are all alone idea didn't ring true to me ... Doesn't Master Darque have the Brethren - a whole sect that WORSIPS him?? and these twisted monsters he created ...don't they bend to his will? Who does Shadowman really have as friends?
- The art is weak in the middle


Overall ... i enjoyed it but didn't love the issue

solid 7.5/10 (B-) grade from me

I think you hit the nail on the head. Agree completly.

I went back and read Shadowman #8 and followed it up directly with #9. Those two issues in isolation from the rest of the second arc (#5 through #7) read really well together. This issue had so many good things going for it - Dox death was perfect, Samedi is well established within this dark corner of the Valiant U, and we see a little more of Shadowman evolving.

My dislikes are pretty much what you said. Darque is all immensly powerful yet Shadowman is able to account for him with little more than a punch? True, Darque was suffering from Dox's attack - guess it was more powerful than I gave it credit upon initially reading it. Also, I dont like the whole 'you're alone' thing...as rightfully mentioned, Darque has the Brethren and an army...

I was initially thinking of dropping this title after the sequel to #0 (#10) and the standalone (#11), however this issue has renewed my interest. Cant wait to hear something about the new arc...

[Bl00dsh0t]

Not a bad issue. I thought the end to Darque was just fins, and I'm sure he'll be back. What the hell happened to Doctor Mirage, though?

I love RDLT and Larossa's pages, but Edwards pages were just not very good. I too hope one of those two or another artist with a similar style becomes the regular artist come issue #12.

Yes exactly! Where is she (Dr. Mirage) in all of this? I hope #12 for the new arc brings her back. I was really looking forward to seeing where she was heading within the context of the story.

[BugsySig]

Not a bad issue. I thought the end to Darque was just fins, and I'm sure he'll be back. What the hell happened to Doctor Mirage, though?

I love RDLT and Larossa's pages, but Edwards pages were just not very good. I too hope one of those two or another artist with a similar style becomes the regular artist come issue #12.

Yes exactly! Where is she (Dr. Mirage) in all of this? I hope #12 for the new arc brings her back. I was really looking forward to seeing where she was heading within the context of the story.

Yeah. Even if she had been the one to help organize the dead souls instead of Jaunty (seeing as how she can talk to the dead) it would have at least wrapped up her involvement and made her introduction mean something.

I cant express enough, though, how much more I enjoyed the second half of the book as drawn by DLT than the half drawn by Edwards. DLT just creates such an amazing mood for the story that it elevates everything that is going on in those pages.

[Paradigm38]

I enjoyed these last two issues very much. However... the dialogue for our main hero is just terrible, the supporting cast has stole the show from the beginning. Maybe the stand alones will flesh out his "voice"? I think he needs a sit down with Nettie....

[bribri]

Not a bad issue. I thought the end to Darque was just fins, and I'm sure he'll be back. What the hell happened to Doctor Mirage, though?

I love RDLT and Larossa's pages, but Edwards pages were just not very good. I too hope one of those two or another artist with a similar style becomes the regular artist come issue #12.

Yes exactly! Where is she (Dr. Mirage) in all of this? I hope #12 for the new arc brings her back. I was really looking forward to seeing where she was heading within the context of the story.

Seriously, the disappearance of Dr. Mirage throughout the rest of the arc makes her brief appearance somewhat pointless. Right? Why bother introducing her a few issues ago only to have her vanish? Feels like maybe a change in the story line at some point...

For me there are three major things missing from this series:
1. The blue mask - Perhaps the old mask is considered dated, and therefore VEI decided to go a different direction, but I miss it. Acclaim tried something very different with the mask too; I missed the blue mask back then, and I miss it now. Even though it never made sense how it would stay on during fights, I liked it. It was an iconic symbol of the original universe, especially after Jack cut the chin piece off.

2. The mystery - The original run had a lot of mystery about who Shadowman was and why he was. In this run his back story is pretty much dropped on us right away, and Jack embraces the whole thing rather quickly. I would have enjoyed more mystery about the who, what, when, why and how...

3. New Orleans - The city was such a major character in the original run. I love the use of Deadside from the Acclaim run. It was a good idea to include this in the new version. But there is not much artwork depicting New Orleans, nothing about the city's history and relationship with Voodooism, and nothing about Jack's relationship with the city. Like Batman's Gotham, the original run not only had a vibe of "the night is mine" but also "this city is mine". Nothing about this series so far makes me feel like the setting is New Orleans. (There was the one scene with Samedi in the graveyard, but not much else.)

[jmatt]

3. New Orleans - The city was such a major character in the original run. ...But there is not much artwork depicting New Orleans, nothing about the city's history and relationship with Voodooism, and nothing about Jack's relationship with the city.

I think that's about to be righted. I would be surprised if we didn't see a lot more of the city, the bayou and voodoo in the next few issues.

[lorddunlow]

Finally read it. Now I'm really bummed about Justin Jordan leaving the book. It seems like he was just hitting his stride.

Very upset to see Dox kick it, but it was a cool end to him.

I definitely think Sandria is the mother of the first Shadowman now, and think she may have created the Shadowman loan as well.

Awesome issue. Robert De La Torre killed it, as always.

[grendeljd]

Haven't read this one yet, but wanted to say I'm also bummed JJ is leaving. I'm still missing Zircher on the book too, & I think it's unfortunate that the starting creative team hasn't worked out for whatever reasons.

Very strange twist of fate that this echoes what happened on the original VH1 book with the creative team shake-up, settling on Bob Hall around the same time...

I wish JJ the best on his other projects, and look forward to seeing him return to Valiant someday.

[Zaphod]

bad, inconsistent art.
bad, inconsistent dialogue.
bad, incoherent plot with little to no explanation as to how Jack beats Darque, how any of these powers work. How Darque's tree broke on through to New Orleans.

Nothing about this issue satisfied me. Some of the art was fantastic, other points were just grossly rushed and the swap in artists with no rhyme nor reason was poor.

I am not a fan of a story that won't explain itself. This story didn't, imo. Just stripping people from the tree, is that all it took? doesn't add up, Jack's father couldn't beat Darque without the tree and he was a more experienced Shadowman.

how does Jack manage to cause the tree to reverse its "polarity"? Sadly, besides the zero issue this series has been all flash, no substance and very little coherence.

I'd be all in favor of rebooting Shadowman tomorrow. Looking forward to see what a new creative team can do with this character.

[bygranddesign]

How Darque's tree broke on through to New Orleans.

It didn't break through to New Orleans ... I had to re-read that part myself.

Those panels were just showing what WOULD happen if the dam broke and the barrier between both worlds were broken

But I don't believe that ever happened

It actually would have been cool if it did. At least unleash some of the monsters into the real world.

The *SQUEE* finally would have hit the fan in this book.

[Zaphod]

good thing I covered incoherent plot...

[bygranddesign]

I'm disappointed that Shadowman #0 gives this sort of sympathetic portrait of Darque ... but you feel none of that sympathy toward him in this storyline happening in the present - there is no grey area to what he plans on doing - and no references to Sandria that might shed some light as to why he is so evil - or why he hates "God" so much. When he seemingly gets obliterated by the tower, for me, it didn't have as much impact as it should have.

I understand that Darque's origin will continue in the next issue ... which could possibly be another awesome issue. But wouldn't that issue have been great to see before he got obliterated? My expectations have been lowered for this next issue … which might end up working in its favor..

[pixierosa]

This did seem like a fast read, perhaps too fast of a cleanup. It felt at time inconsistent, largely due to the volume of artists, but some of whom did nice work (LaRosa). I think the book benefited moving to one writer, and I am looking forward to learning more about the shadowman origin in next issue. I hope that the new writer will give more weight to Jack. I still feel like I know more about the supporting cast than I do the personality of the main character.

Any ideas who the new writer will be? Despite the context of the story, I've never viewed this as "horror". More of a drama with supernatural overtones.