Harbinger Wars #4 Discussion

[Shadowman99]

Any one else notice when Harada confronts the Zygot twins he says-"Ion, take them. Let's clean this mess up and get out of here as soon as possible".

It's clearly Stronghold floating there next to him and he says "Yes, Sir".

Okay here it comes...Harada made Ion appear as Stronghold in order to throw off the other combatants particularly HARD Corps who would likely be aware of Ion and Stronghold and making one appear as the other would throw off their game plan.

Sigh...No prize please

I noticed this too! Artist or writer mistake I guess.

I re-read HW #1-#4 - this mini series is great and I hope Valiant revisit the HW theme every so often. You get the feeling there are going to be many more Harbinger Wars with how the universe is coming together.

In terms of the Stronghold / Ion issue - I actually thought I had it wrong until I went back to their first appearance (and in Bloodshoot). So to confirm, Ion is in the baby blue costume, Stronghold is in the brown costume, despite Harada calling Stronghold Ion during HW #4.

The book has been great quality throughout - I would've thought this oversight would've been easy to spot from editorial though...oh well. I'll keep reading (and re-reading) with Stronghold in mind when when Harada calls him Ion in print during HW #4.

There is another one...on page 3 Harada says "Do we have a track on the psiot children, Stronghold?"

The next panel Ion clearly replies "Yes sir, Vegas"

The Stronghold/Ion colouring/lettering problems irritated me a bit in this issue. With a little more attention being paid by the colourist/letterer/editor they could've avoid this problem, but I suppose these things slip through the net every now and then, but I've really got a bug up my arse about this one because I was really intrigued to see how Stronghold was going to react to the 'Gut Punch' incident, and the error made it a bit more problematic initially to tell exactly what Stronghold was supposed to be saying. Having said that, I ended up disappointed either way: Regardless of colouring mistake, neither Stronghold/Ion says anything that even remotely relates to the incident. I was really, really hoping that Stronghold's feelings on the incident would be addressed one way or another, but the worst-case scenario has occurred: The 'non resolution' scenario. Stronghold simply appears to have completely dismissed the atrocity and just carried on 'doing his job' without further thought to Harada sacrificing one of his students to save his own hide. Very disappointed indeed. Can only hope that perhaps the matter will be resolved later in the pages of Harbinger.

I'd say it's almost certain that Little Castle survived. If he and Maniac both plummeted to the ground with shields active and Maniac survived it stands to reason that Isiah did too. Interesting to see where/when he appears again. And Clem getting munched by Baxter's monster was pretty funny. Unexpected, because I thought he had a great deal of potential going forward, but I never liked the little *SQUEE* anyway, so I was glad to see him bite it (pun). Thought the Zygos twins' dialogue with Harada was very funny. Really liked their naivety and ignorance concerning who it was they were being off-ish with. Don't think for a minute that Traveller's 'Witch Tunnels' have anything to do with Deadside. Seeing the illustrations concerning the Witch Tunnels throughout the books so far, they simply don't look *anything like* the way that Deadside has been drawn in Shadowman. Won't rule out the possibilities that the tunnels could be used to connect to Deadside, but I heavily doubt that the tunnels *are* Deadside. Thought the seemingly incompetent Kozol being made head of PRS was a bit of a lame plot development, but one can only imagine that Bugsy's right when he said that it's because the government think he will be easy to control. Looking forward to seeing more of Cronus antagonising Harada in the future. Not really sure what the Monk meant by lying to Peter. Any thoughts?

Having checked the covers for Bloodshot/HARD Corps #14, I don't think the bald fella is supposed to be Hammerhead at all. I have to guess that it's either Maniac: Or Kara's brother. We saw him bandaged in Bloodshot #13, so it's highly likely it could be him. Also the female HARD Corps member features on the Lupacchino pullbox cover, so is that Kara with a new 'do? Honestly, I wouldn't have thought a simple paramedic would be up to those kind of gun-toting Spiderman-style rope gymnastics, but maybe she's got a bit of training in during Bloodshot #0 month More likely is that the female member is Shakespeare's replacement and a new character altogether. Also on the cover of Bloodshot #14 is a guy wearing safety glasses (Palmer?) and another, faceless HARD Corps member visible between Bloodshot's legs... Lots of possibilities there.

Overall, pleased to see that a lot of new pieces have been placed on the board in some very interesting places. Looking forward to seeing what comes of all of them.

[bygranddesign]

Having checked the covers for Bloodshot/HARD Corps #14, I don't think the bald fella is supposed to be Hammerhead at all. I have to guess that it's either Maniac: Or Kara's brother. We saw him bandaged in Bloodshot #13, so it's highly likely it could be him. Also the female HARD Corps member features on the Lupacchino pullbox cover, so is that Kara with a new 'do? Honestly, I wouldn't have thought a simple paramedic would be up to those kind of gun-toting Spiderman-style rope gymnastics, but maybe she's got a bit of training in during Bloodshot #0 month More likely is that the female member is Shakespeare's replacement and a new character altogether. Also on the cover of Bloodshot #14 is a guy wearing safety glasses (Palmer?) and another, faceless HARD Corps member visible between Bloodshot's legs... Lots of possibilities there.

Overall, pleased to see that a lot of new pieces have been placed on the board in some very interesting places. Looking forward to seeing what comes of all of them.[/color]

From interviews ... Gage reveals that you need the right genetic makeup to successfully undergo the process that allows you to download PSIOT abilities. Because the genetic makeup needed is so rare .... anyone who qualifies is a candidate under consideration whether they have military training or not. It makes sense that they would put up with someone like Maniac (who really is a maniac) as a member because he is not easy to replace. So in regards to Kara ... If she was someone that had the RIGHT genetic makeup to undergo the procedure .... I think she would jump to the top of the list as a candidate for HARD Corps.
- EMT training
- Physically fit and young (probably in the 25-32 range?)
- has been in dangerous conflicts already - the assualt on PRS and the Harby wars (even though she ran away)
- motivation - she will want to make up for leaving when she realizes that the kids and bloodshot got captured by Harada

So I'm hoping it is Kara on the cover

[Shadowman99]

Having checked the covers for Bloodshot/HARD Corps #14, I don't think the bald fella is supposed to be Hammerhead at all. I have to guess that it's either Maniac: Or Kara's brother. We saw him bandaged in Bloodshot #13, so it's highly likely it could be him. Also the female HARD Corps member features on the Lupacchino pullbox cover, so is that Kara with a new 'do? Honestly, I wouldn't have thought a simple paramedic would be up to those kind of gun-toting Spiderman-style rope gymnastics, but maybe she's got a bit of training in during Bloodshot #0 month More likely is that the female member is Shakespeare's replacement and a new character altogether. Also on the cover of Bloodshot #14 is a guy wearing safety glasses (Palmer?) and another, faceless HARD Corps member visible between Bloodshot's legs... Lots of possibilities there.

Overall, pleased to see that a lot of new pieces have been placed on the board in some very interesting places. Looking forward to seeing what comes of all of them.[/color]

From interviews ... Gage reveals that you need the right genetic makeup to successfully undergo the process that allows you to download PSIOT abilities. Because the genetic makeup needed is so rare .... anyone who qualifies is a candidate under consideration whether they have military training or not. It makes sense that they would put up with someone like Maniac (who really is a maniac) as a member because he is not easy to replace. So in regards to Kara ... If she was someone that had the RIGHT genetic makeup to undergo the procedure .... I think she would jump to the top of the list as a candidate for HARD Corps.
- EMT training
- Physically fit and young (probably in the 25-32 range?)
- has been in dangerous conflicts already - the assualt on PRS and the Harby wars (even though she ran away)
- motivation - she will want to make up for leaving when she realizes that the kids and bloodshot got captured by Harada

So I'm hoping it is Kara on the cover

Oh right, so Gage said that in relation to the current day comics did he, not in reference to the 90's comics?

But that's quite interesting to know, I hadn't heard anything about 'what makes up a HARD Corps candidate' so far. I expect it'll probably end up getting covered in the comics, but we haven't got that far yet

But you put forward some good reasons as to why Kara might make a good 'Corps member I think it'd also be nice to have the character continue on in the comics, and with your justifications it seems as good a way as any And I think it'd make for a good team dynamic too, having brother and sister fighting alongside each other. I imagine that's the type of thing that Dysart would dig.

[grendeljd]

The Stronghold/Ion colouring/lettering problems irritated me a bit in this issue. With a little more attention being paid by the colourist/letterer/editor they could've avoid this problem, but I suppose these things slip through the net every now and then, but I've really got a bug up my arse about this one because I was really intrigued to see how Stronghold was going to react to the 'Gut Punch' incident, and the error made it a bit more problematic initially to tell exactly what Stronghold was supposed to be saying. Having said that, I ended up disappointed either way: Regardless of colouring mistake, neither Stronghold/Ion says anything that even remotely relates to the incident. I was really, really hoping that Stronghold's feelings on the incident would be addressed one way or another, but the worst-case scenario has occurred: The 'non resolution' scenario. Stronghold simply appears to have completely dismissed the atrocity and just carried on 'doing his job' without further thought to Harada sacrificing one of his students to save his own hide. Very disappointed indeed. Can only hope that perhaps the matter will be resolved later in the pages of Harbinger.

I don't have the books in front of me to double check, but somewhere in either HW or Harbinger, there was a very brief panel tht addresses the issue of Stronghold's reaction to the 'gut-punch' death. I think he is still kneeling beside her body and says something to the effect of 'we lost another student to them' - which implies that Harada may have mind-wiped him off-panel.

[BugsySig]

The Stronghold/Ion colouring/lettering problems irritated me a bit in this issue. With a little more attention being paid by the colourist/letterer/editor they could've avoid this problem, but I suppose these things slip through the net every now and then, but I've really got a bug up my arse about this one because I was really intrigued to see how Stronghold was going to react to the 'Gut Punch' incident, and the error made it a bit more problematic initially to tell exactly what Stronghold was supposed to be saying. Having said that, I ended up disappointed either way: Regardless of colouring mistake, neither Stronghold/Ion says anything that even remotely relates to the incident. I was really, really hoping that Stronghold's feelings on the incident would be addressed one way or another, but the worst-case scenario has occurred: The 'non resolution' scenario. Stronghold simply appears to have completely dismissed the atrocity and just carried on 'doing his job' without further thought to Harada sacrificing one of his students to save his own hide. Very disappointed indeed. Can only hope that perhaps the matter will be resolved later in the pages of Harbinger.

I don't have the books in front of me to double check, but somewhere in either HW or Harbinger, there was a very brief panel tht addresses the issue of Stronghold's reaction to the 'gut-punch' death. I think he is still kneeling beside her body and says something to the effect of 'we lost another student to them' - which implies that Harada may have mind-wiped him off-panel.

I think he says "I cant believe we lost a student."

[grendeljd]

The Stronghold/Ion colouring/lettering problems irritated me a bit in this issue. With a little more attention being paid by the colourist/letterer/editor they could've avoid this problem, but I suppose these things slip through the net every now and then, but I've really got a bug up my arse about this one because I was really intrigued to see how Stronghold was going to react to the 'Gut Punch' incident, and the error made it a bit more problematic initially to tell exactly what Stronghold was supposed to be saying. Having said that, I ended up disappointed either way: Regardless of colouring mistake, neither Stronghold/Ion says anything that even remotely relates to the incident. I was really, really hoping that Stronghold's feelings on the incident would be addressed one way or another, but the worst-case scenario has occurred: The 'non resolution' scenario. Stronghold simply appears to have completely dismissed the atrocity and just carried on 'doing his job' without further thought to Harada sacrificing one of his students to save his own hide. Very disappointed indeed. Can only hope that perhaps the matter will be resolved later in the pages of Harbinger.

I don't have the books in front of me to double check, but somewhere in either HW or Harbinger, there was a very brief panel tht addresses the issue of Stronghold's reaction to the 'gut-punch' death. I think he is still kneeling beside her body and says something to the effect of 'we lost another student to them' - which implies that Harada may have mind-wiped him off-panel.

I think he says "I cant believe we lost a student."

Yeah, that sounds about right - and I think in the panel he is kneeling next to her body. Something about the lack of emotion in that scene with that line, the lack of any recognition of how she lost her life to Harada, is what gave me the impression that Harada erased Stronghold's memory to cover what he did.

[BugsySig]

The Stronghold/Ion colouring/lettering problems irritated me a bit in this issue. With a little more attention being paid by the colourist/letterer/editor they could've avoid this problem, but I suppose these things slip through the net every now and then, but I've really got a bug up my arse about this one because I was really intrigued to see how Stronghold was going to react to the 'Gut Punch' incident, and the error made it a bit more problematic initially to tell exactly what Stronghold was supposed to be saying. Having said that, I ended up disappointed either way: Regardless of colouring mistake, neither Stronghold/Ion says anything that even remotely relates to the incident. I was really, really hoping that Stronghold's feelings on the incident would be addressed one way or another, but the worst-case scenario has occurred: The 'non resolution' scenario. Stronghold simply appears to have completely dismissed the atrocity and just carried on 'doing his job' without further thought to Harada sacrificing one of his students to save his own hide. Very disappointed indeed. Can only hope that perhaps the matter will be resolved later in the pages of Harbinger.

I don't have the books in front of me to double check, but somewhere in either HW or Harbinger, there was a very brief panel tht addresses the issue of Stronghold's reaction to the 'gut-punch' death. I think he is still kneeling beside her body and says something to the effect of 'we lost another student to them' - which implies that Harada may have mind-wiped him off-panel.

I think he says "I cant believe we lost a student."

Yeah, that sounds about right - and I think in the panel he is kneeling next to her body. Something about the lack of emotion in that scene with that line, the lack of any recognition of how she lost her life to Harada, is what gave me the impression that Harada erased Stronghold's memory to cover what he did.

I agree. Doesn't seem like what one would say if they just saw their teacher/leader blow the girls head up.

[Shadowman99]

The Stronghold/Ion colouring/lettering problems irritated me a bit in this issue. With a little more attention being paid by the colourist/letterer/editor they could've avoid this problem, but I suppose these things slip through the net every now and then, but I've really got a bug up my arse about this one because I was really intrigued to see how Stronghold was going to react to the 'Gut Punch' incident, and the error made it a bit more problematic initially to tell exactly what Stronghold was supposed to be saying. Having said that, I ended up disappointed either way: Regardless of colouring mistake, neither Stronghold/Ion says anything that even remotely relates to the incident. I was really, really hoping that Stronghold's feelings on the incident would be addressed one way or another, but the worst-case scenario has occurred: The 'non resolution' scenario. Stronghold simply appears to have completely dismissed the atrocity and just carried on 'doing his job' without further thought to Harada sacrificing one of his students to save his own hide. Very disappointed indeed. Can only hope that perhaps the matter will be resolved later in the pages of Harbinger.

I don't have the books in front of me to double check, but somewhere in either HW or Harbinger, there was a very brief panel tht addresses the issue of Stronghold's reaction to the 'gut-punch' death. I think he is still kneeling beside her body and says something to the effect of 'we lost another student to them' - which implies that Harada may have mind-wiped him off-panel.

I think he says "I cant believe we lost a student."

Yeah, that sounds about right - and I think in the panel he is kneeling next to her body. Something about the lack of emotion in that scene with that line, the lack of any recognition of how she lost her life to Harada, is what gave me the impression that Harada erased Stronghold's memory to cover what he did.

I agree. Doesn't seem like what one would say if they just saw their teacher/leader blow the girls head up.

Those points of view are totally reasonable: But I just didn't get that from reading the book The way I read it was more like Stronghold was obviously despondent at having lost the life of the girl student, but the matter seemed unresolved to me. Sort of like he didn't know what to make of what had just happened because he was still shocked from the actual event, which is why I was really interested to see his resolution to this in HW part 4.

I doubt we'll see any more on the matter to be honest, but it's a bit of a shame that we haven't been given a proper conclusion. Feels like a bit of a neglected event really. Bit of a loose end. Ah well.