Harbinger #12 Discussion

[bygranddesign]

Anyone else think that the whole "we have bombs in our heads" thing is just a lie that they were told?

Otherwise, you would think the bombs would be programmed to self-destruct in the event they lost communication with the PRS mainframe. A dead-man's switch per se.

Would there be a reason why they wouldn't put a bomb in their heads?

I've been running with the theory that the nanites have taken over the PRS Mainframe and the "Goldies" will eventually diffuse the bombs in their head so the Gen Zero kids will be free..

[lorddunlow]

Anyone else think that the whole "we have bombs in our heads" thing is just a lie that they were told?

Otherwise, you would think the bombs would be programmed to self-destruct in the event they lost communication with the PRS mainframe. A dead-man's switch per se.

Would there be a reason why they wouldn't put a bomb in their heads?

I've been running with the theory that the nanites have taken over the PRS Mainframe and the "Goldies" will eventually diffuse the bombs in their head so the Gen Zero kids will be free..

I just think that if there were bombs in their heads, they would have already detonated. PRS seems to cover all their bases, and I think they would assure there were several backup detonation mechanisms in place.

[tchalla8]

Anyone else think that the whole "we have bombs in our heads" thing is just a lie that they were told?

Otherwise, you would think the bombs would be programmed to self-destruct in the event they lost communication with the PRS mainframe. A dead-man's switch per se.

Would there be a reason why they wouldn't put a bomb in their heads?

I've been running with the theory that the nanites have taken over the PRS Mainframe and the "Goldies" will eventually diffuse the bombs in their head so the Gen Zero kids will be free..

I just think that if there were bombs in their heads, they would have already detonated. PRS seems to cover all their bases, and I think they would assure there were several backup detonation mechanisms in place.

I imagine PRS would only detonate as a last resort if they can't get them under control. Think about the time and resources it took to make these kids what they are. Not so easily just written off.

[Burrito Boy]

Am I wrong or was a bomb in the head part of the original H.A.R.D.Corps setup?

[Phoenix8008]

Am I wrong or was a bomb in the head part of the original H.A.R.D.Corps setup?

Exactamundo!

[MoonChild]

Another home-run by the Dysart! Besides the "I don't know why we're here but this is where we need to be" bit, the interaction with the Renegades & the kids was just masterful. I think VEI is really setting these kids up for their own Book. I also think the original idea was to make them the new Troublemakers but as things developed they decided to make this their own thing. Gen Zero in full effect baby!! The art was great, I felt they have kept these kids looking the same throughout pretty well which is tough with so many artists on the gig. Those painted pages were just amazing and fit really well. I think there was only 1 place where the transition was kind of jarring but still cool cause It's just not something you see everyday in comics. I'm glad they do this and I hope they keep it going. Makes for some really cool books visually as well because we all know the writing is just Top grade Kick-*SQUEE* stuff. Great job! 9/10!

[Zaphod]

Anyone else think that the whole "we have bombs in our heads" thing is just a lie that they were told?

Otherwise, you would think the bombs would be programmed to self-destruct in the event they lost communication with the PRS mainframe. A dead-man's switch per se.

an interesting thought but these kids are too valuable to be terminated by a power glitch, imo.

[jmatt]

I caught your shout out BTE! So cool!

Man, is this title in full swing or what? Another sterling issue.

Cronus is a seriously troubled person, to be sure. And the Harada back story is very interesting; I'm enjoying watching these snippets come together as we learn of his rise to power.

[stitches]

Great issue!!
Loved the character interactions.

Anyone else wondering what song Torque chose? I'm guessing Pantera.

[Bone-A-Fach-ee]

A few questions, and comments.
So, does Harada not participate in sex? Is his version of that a mind trip with Griffin?
Clayton Crain wasn't credited for that page anywhere, was he? Didn't see his name listed, although I think we all recognize his art style.
BTE, I pointed this out in an earlier thread,
viewtopic.php?f=33&t=40070
Very glad to see you got a shoutout!
Can Pete disarm the "brain bombs" in Generation Zero?
How did Telic know that Torque had a physical projection?
Also, did Torque seem BIGGER after he got thrown through the wall and was angry about it? Can he change his physical projection based on his emotions?

Loved all the interactions with the Renegades/Gen 0. I hope they wind up being on the same side, coming to an understanding, whatever. Although, I'm sure it will all turn upside down first before that happens.
Excellent, excellent issue.

[BugsySig]

A few questions, and comments.
So, does Harada not participate in sex? Is his version of that a mind trip with Griffin?
Clayton Crain wasn't credited for that page anywhere, was he? Didn't see his name listed, although I think we all recognize his art style.
BTE, I pointed this out in an earlier thread,
viewtopic.php?f=33&t=40070
Very glad to see you got a shoutout!
Can Pete disarm the "brain bombs" in Generation Zero?
How did Telic know that Torque had a physical projection?
Also, did Torque seem BIGGER after he got thrown through the wall and was angry about it? Can he change his physical projection based on his emotions?

Loved all the interactions with the Renegades/Gen 0. I hope they wind up being on the same side, coming to an understanding, whatever. Although, I'm sure it will all turn upside down first before that happens.
Excellent, excellent issue.

I was thinking perhaps a combination or Cronos' "psychic surgery" powers and Pete's abilities could disarm the bombs.

[Dallow Spicer1]

Great issue! Dysart nails it again!! Really enjoying the whole Harby Wars crossover and the way Bloodshot is used bodes well for when Josh takes over co-writing duties.

I continue to be puzzled as to why Harbinger isn't catching on more with readers and sales aren't higher? What other book out there is consistently better than this book (I'd have XO on a par!).

[Savant]

WOW DYSART outdid himself again! This is really turning into one of the best crossovers I’ve ever read.

This issue brought so much great dialogue and insights to these characters. When you REALLY understand these characters and how they think and WHY they are the way they are – it really makes the action, the fights, the pain, the deaths all the more impactful and enjoyable. I think the word for this issue for me is extremely satisfying; the few things that were bothering me were explored and left me with a better understanding of where these characters are coming from.

Cronus and the Gen Zero kids seem a little too inhumane and thoughtless when it comes to killing? Cronus lays out his feelings on this pretty clearly and that beautiful Crain page where he is beaten to a bloody pulp by Bloodshot delivers the message. This is a kid who is extremely smart but has endured so much torture and psychological damage over the years, and now that he is free the kids under his care mean more to him than anyone else in this world. And living with the very real reality that death is literally a finger snap away would make you lose perspective.

Any fallout from Kris shooting up PRS soldiers? And with Peter killing so many people? Yes!, Kris can’t sleep at night, and clearly it had a big effect on her. And I LOVED Peters thoughts on this – The people he killed were INNOCENT (To some degree) it’s the people behind the soldiers who are the TRULY GUILTY. This is something that has bothered me with Peter wiping out so many foot soldiers throughout the series so far with such ease … and I LOVE the fact that this was talked about and explored! The whole dialogue between Peter and Cronus is absolutely beautifully written and truly a joy to read.

All of the different conversations were a real treat! Loved the Flamingo and Hive meeting! Hive as I suspected will crack at some point with all of these LIVES he has absorbed. I can see Flamingo with her care-free attitude and flirtatiousness really messing with Hives brain. Hive I would assume is not experienced when it comes to girls and is very impressionable, if Flamingo plays with his feelings, it could be bad news for everyone because he won’t be able to hold back the monsters in his head!

There are so many great things about this issue and I haven’t even gotten to the Torque-Telic meeting, 1960’s Harada (awesome awesome awesome!) There were so many great funny moments to go along with the serious dialogue. Very well crafted Mr. Dysart. And Evans is not my favorite artist but I thought his pages were very good and Hairsine work was perfect and Crain's page was beautiful as always and a nice surprise!

Just so much awesome sauce in one comic it’s hard to even get to it all

9/10 – another great HW issue

Well said, you touched on the majority of the high points of this issue. It's likely my favorite Harbinger issue so far.

Great issue! Dysart nails it again!! Really enjoying the whole Harby Wars crossover and the way Bloodshot is used bodes well for when Josh takes over co-writing duties.

I continue to be puzzled as to why Harbinger isn't catching on more with readers and sales aren't higher? What other book out there is consistently better than this book (I'd have XO on a par!).

I liked the first 1 or 2 issues of Harbinger, but then the comic kind of went downhill for me. Issues 7-10 were OK, but not good enough for me to want to continue on with the series and I planned to drop the title after Harbinger Wars (I was going to do the same with Bloodshot, which I quite liked early on but then later issues were hit/miss, from my perspective).

With the current Harbinger Wars arc, I've been completely surprised by the high quality of the storyline, and writing, itself. Everything about this cross-over has been almost perfect, which I find odd because cross-overs & large, company-wide storylines are almost always a let-down with the Big 2.

Although a lot of readers on this board have been high on Harbinger from the get-go, it's possible everything going on during Harbinger Wars has gone under the radar because it has been of such higher quality, compared to earlier Harbinger issues. Word of mouth hasn't spread like it should, and there may have been some readers who dropped the title before this cross-over began.

[Savant]

On a side note, I'm wondering how Harbinger Wars will be collected. I think it would be ideal if they combined the limited series with the Harbinger & Bloodshot issues for one big tpb or hc, but I don't know if they'll do that.

[lorddunlow]

I liked the first 1 or 2 issues of Harbinger, but then the comic kind of went downhill for me. Issues 7-10 were OK, but not good enough for me to want to continue on with the series and I planned to drop the title after Harbinger Wars (I was going to do the same with Bloodshot, which I quite liked early on but then later issues were hit/miss, from my perspective).

Translation: I'm crazy, and I don't know good books when I see them.

I guess to each his own.

[Savant]

I liked the first 1 or 2 issues of Harbinger, but then the comic kind of went downhill for me. Issues 7-10 were OK, but not good enough for me to want to continue on with the series and I planned to drop the title after Harbinger Wars (I was going to do the same with Bloodshot, which I quite liked early on but then later issues were hit/miss, from my perspective).

Translation: I'm crazy, and I don't know good books when I see them.

I guess to each his own.

My taste in Valiant Comics does seem to differ from the norm where other forum members are concerned. My favorite Valiant title is Archer & Armstrong, which seems to be one of the least popular titles on this board. The majority seem to mostly be into X-O or Harbinger.

[lorddunlow]

I liked the first 1 or 2 issues of Harbinger, but then the comic kind of went downhill for me. Issues 7-10 were OK, but not good enough for me to want to continue on with the series and I planned to drop the title after Harbinger Wars (I was going to do the same with Bloodshot, which I quite liked early on but then later issues were hit/miss, from my perspective).

Translation: I'm crazy, and I don't know good books when I see them.

I guess to each his own.

My taste in Valiant Comics does seem to differ from the norm where other forum members are concerned. My favorite Valiant title is Archer & Armstrong, which seems to be one of the least popular titles on this board. The majority seem to mostly be into X-O or Harbinger.

Harbinger and Bloodshot are 1 and 2 for me. Archer and Armstrong was at the bottom at first, but it's neck and neck with X - O for me.

[erwinrafael]

I liked the first 1 or 2 issues of Harbinger, but then the comic kind of went downhill for me. Issues 7-10 were OK, but not good enough for me to want to continue on with the series and I planned to drop the title after Harbinger Wars (I was going to do the same with Bloodshot, which I quite liked early on but then later issues were hit/miss, from my perspective).

Translation: I'm crazy, and I don't know good books when I see them.

I guess to each his own.

My taste in Valiant Comics does seem to differ from the norm where other forum members are concerned. My favorite Valiant title is Archer & Armstrong, which seems to be one of the least popular titles on this board. The majority seem to mostly be into X-O or Harbinger.

Oh, a fellow VEI member who thinks A&A is the best VEI title out.

Harbinger is good, but I have always seen it as X-Men done right. It's a well-done comic book but not treading new ground as far as comic book stories are concerned.

[erwinrafael]

I continue to be puzzled as to why Harbinger isn't catching on more with readers and sales aren't higher? What other book out there is consistently better than this book (I'd have XO on a par!).

Well, there are many if you could get beyond the "Marvel and DC is so bad" mentality. I for one am happy that I picked up a bunch of Marvel NOW books (although I would be dropping most of them now for budget reasons).

[Baramos]

My taste in Valiant Comics does seem to differ from the norm where other forum members are concerned. My favorite Valiant title is Archer & Armstrong, which seems to be one of the least popular titles on this board. The majority seem to mostly be into X-O or Harbinger.

My favorite uis Archer & Armstrong from issue 1, so you're not alone. I enjoyed the wacky humor and jet-setting adventure style of it. It doesn't take itself too seriously. But it still seems to have very interesting characters, world, and stuff going on in it.

I thought Harbinger 1 & 2 were higher quality than 3, 4, and 5. But then the second arc, probably from issue 7 on, I thought was pretty good. I like Harbinger Wars a lot.

On a side note, I'm wondering how Harbinger Wars will be collected. I think it would be ideal if they combined the limited series with the Harbinger & Bloodshot issues for one big tpb or hc, but I don't know if they'll do that.

There will be a separate Harbinger Wars TPB, 99.999% guaranteed. That's undoubtedly why they made it four issues, as well.

EDIT: Bloodshot and Harbinger will also be separate, too.

BUT there is a slight possibility they'd combine it all together into one, ala the Batman: Night of the Owls book (which combined together a myriad of issues from multiple DC comic titles, such as Batman, Red Hood, Nightwing, Batgirl, etc.) as an option. But there will be separate TPBs guaranteed, no idea if they'd make a monster "Harbinger Wars" TPB with all the pertinent issues of Harbinger, Bloodshot, and Harby Wars together in one volume. That would be a cool thing for them to do, but they probably aren't big enough a company to attempt something like that...of course, with their first crossover happening the year after their debut, maybe we have no idea what Valiant is capable of, haha.

[Dallow Spicer1]

I continue to be puzzled as to why Harbinger isn't catching on more with readers and sales aren't higher? What other book out there is consistently better than this book (I'd have XO on a par!).

Well, there are many if you could get beyond the "Marvel and DC is so bad" mentality. I for one am happy that I picked up a bunch of Marvel NOW books (although I would be dropping most of them now for budget reasons).

I tried a bunch of Marvel with recent free issues on Comixology (spiderman, wolverine, FF, Punisher etc) and I've purchased a few titles when they've been 99cents (mark waid Daredevil) and so far they've ranged between woeful (Wolverine Savage Land) to readable (Punisher). I enjoy 'Saga' and 'Sex' as non Valiant stuff.

What would you say was the best Marvel Now title, maybe I'll check it out?

[Savant]

My taste in Valiant Comics does seem to differ from the norm where other forum members are concerned. My favorite Valiant title is Archer & Armstrong, which seems to be one of the least popular titles on this board. The majority seem to mostly be into X-O or Harbinger.

My favorite uis Archer & Armstrong from issue 1, so you're not alone. I enjoyed the wacky humor and jet-setting adventure style of it. It doesn't take itself too seriously. But it still seems to have very interesting characters, world, and stuff going on in it.

Good thing about A&A is it has some comedic elements to it, but not to the point of ridiculousness. A lot of "fun" comics make the mistake of getting too goofy to the point of taking away realistic elements (Realistic in the sense of the fictional setting we're given).

On a side note, I'm wondering how Harbinger Wars will be collected. I think it would be ideal if they combined the limited series with the Harbinger & Bloodshot issues for one big tpb or hc, but I don't know if they'll do that.

There will be a separate Harbinger Wars TPB, 99.999% guaranteed. That's undoubtedly why they made it four issues, as well.

EDIT: Bloodshot and Harbinger will also be separate, too.

BUT there is a slight possibility they'd combine it all together into one, ala the Batman: Night of the Owls book (which combined together a myriad of issues from multiple DC comic titles, such as Batman, Red Hood, Nightwing, Batgirl, etc.) as an option. But there will be separate TPBs guaranteed, no idea if they'd make a monster "Harbinger Wars" TPB with all the pertinent issues of Harbinger, Bloodshot, and Harby Wars together in one volume. That would be a cool thing for them to do, but they probably aren't big enough a company to attempt something like that...of course, with their first crossover happening the year after their debut, maybe we have no idea what Valiant is capable of, haha.

Yeah, they'll likely just do three separate TPBs collecting each 4-issue arc.

One thing's for sure. If the quality level of Harbinger Wars continues at its current pace, I'd love it if they eventually release a hardcover collection containing all 12 issues.

[NapoleonBlownapart]

I continue to be puzzled as to why Harbinger isn't catching on more with readers and sales aren't higher? What other book out there is consistently better than this book (I'd have XO on a par!).

Well, there are many if you could get beyond the "Marvel and DC is so bad" mentality. I for one am happy that I picked up a bunch of Marvel NOW books (although I would be dropping most of them now for budget reasons).

I tried a bunch of Marvel with recent free issues on Comixology (spiderman, wolverine, FF, Punisher etc) and I've purchased a few titles when they've been 99cents (mark waid Daredevil) and so far they've ranged between woeful (Wolverine Savage Land) to readable (Punisher). I enjoy 'Saga' and 'Sex' as non Valiant stuff.

What would you say was the best Marvel Now title, maybe I'll check it out?

Hickman's run on Avengers has been pretty good. It's a lot different than most other Avengers' series we've been getting for a while. It has a strong focus on heroes who haven't been in the spotlight for a long time, like Smasher. Hyperion and Star Brand.

[Phoenix8008]

I continue to be puzzled as to why Harbinger isn't catching on more with readers and sales aren't higher? What other book out there is consistently better than this book (I'd have XO on a par!).

Well, there are many if you could get beyond the "Marvel and DC is so bad" mentality. I for one am happy that I picked up a bunch of Marvel NOW books (although I would be dropping most of them now for budget reasons).

I tried a bunch of Marvel with recent free issues on Comixology (spiderman, wolverine, FF, Punisher etc) and I've purchased a few titles when they've been 99cents (mark waid Daredevil) and so far they've ranged between woeful (Wolverine Savage Land) to readable (Punisher). I enjoy 'Saga' and 'Sex' as non Valiant stuff.

What would you say was the best Marvel Now title, maybe I'll check it out?

Hickman's run on Avengers has been pretty good. It's a lot different than most other Avengers' series we've been getting for a while. It has a strong focus on heroes who haven't been in the spotlight for a long time, like Smasher. Hyperion and Star Brand.

Yep, I'm loving Hickman's Avengers stuff so far. I only started it to catch the New Universe related stuff but have enjoyed it quite a bit. Too bad I may have to cancel it to make room for more Valiant coming down the line.

[lorddunlow]

I'm loving both Avengers books by Hickman. New Avengers is slightly better, in my opinion, but they are both great reads.