Shadowman #0 Discussion

[Knightt]

Hopefully Sandria comes back.

THAT would be a most excellent thing. She is a really good character to play both sides of the fence with.

[lorddunlow]

Hopefully Sandria comes back.

THAT would be a most excellent thing. She is a really good character to play both sides of the fence with.

Is that a euphemism?

[Knightt]

Hopefully Sandria comes back.

THAT would be a most excellent thing. She is a really good character to play both sides of the fence with.

Is that a euphemism?

I don't believe so...

Euphemism
The act or an example of substituting a mild, indirect, or vague term for one considered harsh, blunt, or offensive: "Euphemisms such as 'slumber room' . . . abound in the funeral business".

[jakgrimm]

I agree with Knightt 100%. We need some character development and adjustment to the characters' powers. I was simply floored to see "A few weeks later..." in XO Manowar when he was in Peru. Just like that he learning all about and is cool with his armor? I miss the days of "The way to outside is open!"


Dallow, I think you nailed it for me... In the new series, Master Darque us much more interesting than Shadowman. Jack is two dimensional and "fell into his powers" too easily. The old series, Jack struggled with his newfound power.

I think all the new Valiant titles suffer from too much instant on action. XO is already off planet and i don't think he has even bathed but once. Story development is a talent and everyone has slipped top easily into their roles, even though for the characters all their powers are new, I think that this being an "old universe" the new creators are running a bit too hard to "get to the action". I know that if I were a janitor and jumped into fighting supernatural monsters, I'd have some "adjustment time" that would be required.

Thanks Dallow.

[greg]

Quick Shadowman #0 question...

Who nailed Daddy Darque to the tree (so he could have the Lyceum vision)?

[MoonChild]

Love love loved this book!! But like most have said it did strike me as odd that there was no Shadowman in it, even if he's tied to this story line, him not appearing at all kinda made it seem weird. I mean it is Shadowman #0 [Origin]. Maybe a Shadowman #00 in the works??

[lorddunlow]

Quick Shadowman #0 question...

Who nailed Daddy Darque to the tree (so he could have the Lyceum vision)?

I was thinking about this and the statement from Justin Jordan that this was indeed Shadowman #0 and not Darque #0. What if Darque and Shadowman are yin/yang? The creation of Darque also resulted in the creation of the Shadowman legacy/loa. Just thinking out loud (or in text)... whatever.

[greg]

Adding to BugsySig's comments...

In terms of this being "Shadowman #0" and not "Darque #0", I think we will see the first Shadowman in the Americas (since the loa likely originated in West Africa) arrive either in response to the sacrificing of slaves on the Darque Plantation or the massive draining of lifeforce from those on the plantation by Nicky Darque. I think the latter more likely as all those souls newly trapped in the Deadside would draw the attention of the Shadowman loa.

If Daddy Darque had learned as much as possible, and then Nicky Darque used additional power to destroy him... that might be the first time (or first time in a very long time) that multiple people were killed by the "suck-out-their-lifeforce" method.

When they arrive on the Deadside (assuming that's where they'd go), they might join together to oppose the kind of power that Nicky Darque displayed.

The Deadside's answer to Nicky Darque may be Shadowman, so the only reason we have Shadowman (origin) is possibly because Nicky Darque used too much power (to kill his father).

Most of that is what Bugsy said, but I'm not sure of the Loa would be older (prior existing) or if the joining of these newly-killed souls makes the Shadowman Loa.
(Other Loa from the past may have been in response to other threats in the past.)

Perhaps the souls all killed by the same individual can work together against him... so the Loa would continue to gain power for the next 180+ years as Darque continues to kill.

If so, the most powerful Shadowman would always be the more current one... since Darque would have killed even more since the prior Shadowman.

Jack's ability to use the Shadowman power even without training could be the result of the power itself being the strongest it has ever been.

[BugsySig]

Quick Shadowman #0 question...

Who nailed Daddy Darque to the tree (so he could have the Lyceum vision)?

Well in the flashback where he is sacrificing who is likely a slave, there are others there. Or maybe he had some slaves do it for him (I'm sure they wouldn't have minded..."sure, boss, whatever you say." )

Adding to BugsySig's comments...

In terms of this being "Shadowman #0" and not "Darque #0", I think we will see the first Shadowman in the Americas (since the loa likely originated in West Africa) arrive either in response to the sacrificing of slaves on the Darque Plantation or the massive draining of lifeforce from those on the plantation by Nicky Darque. I think the latter more likely as all those souls newly trapped in the Deadside would draw the attention of the Shadowman loa.

If Daddy Darque had learned as much as possible, and then Nicky Darque used additional power to destroy him... that might be the first time (or first time in a very long time) that multiple people were killed by the "suck-out-their-lifeforce" method.

When they arrive on the Deadside (assuming that's where they'd go), they might join together to "vocally" oppose the kind of power that Nicky Darque displayed.

The Deadside's answer to Nicky Darque may be Shadowman, so the only reason we have Shadowman (origin) is possibly because Nicky Darque used too much power (to kill his father).

Most of that is what Bugsy said, but I'm not sure of the Loa would be older (prior existing) or if the joining of the newly-killed souls makes the Loa.

Perhaps the souls all killed by the same individual can work together against him... so the Loa would continue to gain power for the next 180+ years as Darque continues to kill.

It seems to me the Shadow loa is the protector of Deadside. That would have be a job that has been around for a long time, IMO. Being a historian and former teacher of Caribbean history, most, if not all, of the Vodun loas originated in West Africa. Though they may take on some different roles and even were combined with Catholic Saints in order to hide the practice from their owners.

Justin said those who meet their end by having their life force drained have their souls trapped in Deadside. That then would leave a couple of possibilities: a survivor of the Darque incident could have called upon the loa to bond with him and become the first Shadowman, one of the souls could have been reborn/returned to Earth by the loa and become the first Shadowman, or the souls could have brought Darque to the attention of the loa who then bonded with a human. There seems to be family legacy, though, so that makes me think the first or second options are where we are headed.

[greg]

Quick Shadowman #0 question...

Who nailed Daddy Darque to the tree (so he could have the Lyceum vision)?

Well in the flashback where he is sacrificing who is likely a slave, there are others there. Or maybe he had some slaves do it for him (I'm sure they wouldn't have minded..."sure, boss, whatever you say." )

Adding to BugsySig's comments...

In terms of this being "Shadowman #0" and not "Darque #0", I think we will see the first Shadowman in the Americas (since the loa likely originated in West Africa) arrive either in response to the sacrificing of slaves on the Darque Plantation or the massive draining of lifeforce from those on the plantation by Nicky Darque. I think the latter more likely as all those souls newly trapped in the Deadside would draw the attention of the Shadowman loa.

If Daddy Darque had learned as much as possible, and then Nicky Darque used additional power to destroy him... that might be the first time (or first time in a very long time) that multiple people were killed by the "suck-out-their-lifeforce" method.

When they arrive on the Deadside (assuming that's where they'd go), they might join together to "vocally" oppose the kind of power that Nicky Darque displayed.

The Deadside's answer to Nicky Darque may be Shadowman, so the only reason we have Shadowman (origin) is possibly because Nicky Darque used too much power (to kill his father).

Most of that is what Bugsy said, but I'm not sure of the Loa would be older (prior existing) or if the joining of the newly-killed souls makes the Loa.

Perhaps the souls all killed by the same individual can work together against him... so the Loa would continue to gain power for the next 180+ years as Darque continues to kill.

It seems to me the Shadow loa is the protector of Deadside. That would have be a job that has been around for a long time, IMO. Being a historian and former teacher of Caribbean history, most, if not all, of the Vodun loas originated in West Africa. Though they may take on some different roles and even were combined with Catholic Saints in order to hide the practice from their owners.

Justin said those who meet their end by having their life force drained have their souls trapped in Deadside. That then would leave a couple of possibilities: a survivor of the Darque incident could have called upon the loa to bond with him and become the first Shadowman, one of the souls could have been reborn/returned to Earth by the loa and become the first Shadowman, or the souls could have brought Darque to the attention of the loa who then bonded with a human. There seems to be family legacy, though, so that makes me think the first or second options are where we are headed.

I'm not using enough actual Justin and history in my speculations.

One of the questions that I had was, wouldn't "Darque" be a name chosen after getting into magic, so what was the original family name?
Could it have been Boniface? (And wouldn't the slaves have ALSO used the name Boniface?)

[lorddunlow]

Quick Shadowman #0 question...

Who nailed Daddy Darque to the tree (so he could have the Lyceum vision)?

Well in the flashback where he is sacrificing who is likely a slave, there are others there. Or maybe he had some slaves do it for him (I'm sure they wouldn't have minded..."sure, boss, whatever you say." )

Adding to BugsySig's comments...

In terms of this being "Shadowman #0" and not "Darque #0", I think we will see the first Shadowman in the Americas (since the loa likely originated in West Africa) arrive either in response to the sacrificing of slaves on the Darque Plantation or the massive draining of lifeforce from those on the plantation by Nicky Darque. I think the latter more likely as all those souls newly trapped in the Deadside would draw the attention of the Shadowman loa.

If Daddy Darque had learned as much as possible, and then Nicky Darque used additional power to destroy him... that might be the first time (or first time in a very long time) that multiple people were killed by the "suck-out-their-lifeforce" method.

When they arrive on the Deadside (assuming that's where they'd go), they might join together to "vocally" oppose the kind of power that Nicky Darque displayed.

The Deadside's answer to Nicky Darque may be Shadowman, so the only reason we have Shadowman (origin) is possibly because Nicky Darque used too much power (to kill his father).

Most of that is what Bugsy said, but I'm not sure of the Loa would be older (prior existing) or if the joining of the newly-killed souls makes the Loa.

Perhaps the souls all killed by the same individual can work together against him... so the Loa would continue to gain power for the next 180+ years as Darque continues to kill.

It seems to me the Shadow loa is the protector of Deadside. That would have be a job that has been around for a long time, IMO. Being a historian and former teacher of Caribbean history, most, if not all, of the Vodun loas originated in West Africa. Though they may take on some different roles and even were combined with Catholic Saints in order to hide the practice from their owners.

Justin said those who meet their end by having their life force drained have their souls trapped in Deadside. That then would leave a couple of possibilities: a survivor of the Darque incident could have called upon the loa to bond with him and become the first Shadowman, one of the souls could have been reborn/returned to Earth by the loa and become the first Shadowman, or the souls could have brought Darque to the attention of the loa who then bonded with a human. There seems to be family legacy, though, so that makes me think the first or second options are where we are headed.

I'm not using enough actual Justin and history in my speculations.

One of the questions that I had was, wouldn't "Darque" be a name chosen after getting into magic, so what was the original family name?
Could it have been Boniface? (And wouldn't the slaves have ALSO used the name Boniface?)

I was thinking this, too.

[BugsySig]

Quick Shadowman #0 question...

Who nailed Daddy Darque to the tree (so he could have the Lyceum vision)?

Well in the flashback where he is sacrificing who is likely a slave, there are others there. Or maybe he had some slaves do it for him (I'm sure they wouldn't have minded..."sure, boss, whatever you say." )

Adding to BugsySig's comments...

In terms of this being "Shadowman #0" and not "Darque #0", I think we will see the first Shadowman in the Americas (since the loa likely originated in West Africa) arrive either in response to the sacrificing of slaves on the Darque Plantation or the massive draining of lifeforce from those on the plantation by Nicky Darque. I think the latter more likely as all those souls newly trapped in the Deadside would draw the attention of the Shadowman loa.

If Daddy Darque had learned as much as possible, and then Nicky Darque used additional power to destroy him... that might be the first time (or first time in a very long time) that multiple people were killed by the "suck-out-their-lifeforce" method.

When they arrive on the Deadside (assuming that's where they'd go), they might join together to "vocally" oppose the kind of power that Nicky Darque displayed.

The Deadside's answer to Nicky Darque may be Shadowman, so the only reason we have Shadowman (origin) is possibly because Nicky Darque used too much power (to kill his father).

Most of that is what Bugsy said, but I'm not sure of the Loa would be older (prior existing) or if the joining of the newly-killed souls makes the Loa.

Perhaps the souls all killed by the same individual can work together against him... so the Loa would continue to gain power for the next 180+ years as Darque continues to kill.

It seems to me the Shadow loa is the protector of Deadside. That would have be a job that has been around for a long time, IMO. Being a historian and former teacher of Caribbean history, most, if not all, of the Vodun loas originated in West Africa. Though they may take on some different roles and even were combined with Catholic Saints in order to hide the practice from their owners.

Justin said those who meet their end by having their life force drained have their souls trapped in Deadside. That then would leave a couple of possibilities: a survivor of the Darque incident could have called upon the loa to bond with him and become the first Shadowman, one of the souls could have been reborn/returned to Earth by the loa and become the first Shadowman, or the souls could have brought Darque to the attention of the loa who then bonded with a human. There seems to be family legacy, though, so that makes me think the first or second options are where we are headed.

I'm not using enough actual Justin and history in my speculations.

One of the questions that I had was, wouldn't "Darque" be a name chosen after getting into magic, so what was the original family name?
Could it have been Boniface? (And wouldn't the slaves have ALSO used the name Boniface?)

Interesting...

[bygranddesign]

Greg and Bugsy I really enjoy reading your thoughts on this ... very interesting!

Just another wrench to throw in the works ... Nettie is an essential character in the original and she is yet to be introduced into this series. They have to have major plans for her at some point. Perhaps Nettie was one of the slaves for the Darque's? And perhaps knowing the growing evil and power that was brewing on the Plantation with the Darque family, Nettie along with the other slaves summon the Loa to the America's through a ritual (perhaps they find a blood descendant of the shadowman amongst them).

[BugsySig]

Greg and Bugsy I really enjoy reading your thoughts on this ... very interesting!

Just another wrench to throw in the works ... Nettie is an essential character in the original and she is yet to be introduced into this series. They have to have major plans for her at some point. Perhaps Nettie was one of the slaves for the Darque's? And perhaps knowing the growing evil and power that was brewing on the Plantation with the Darque family, Nettie along with the other slaves summon the Loa to the America's through a ritual (perhaps they find a blood descendant of the shadowman amongst them).

Oooh...I had forgotten about Nettie! I'm down with that

[greg]

Greg and Bugsy I really enjoy reading your thoughts on this ... very interesting!

Just another wrench to throw in the works ... Nettie is an essential character in the original and she is yet to be introduced into this series. They have to have major plans for her at some point. Perhaps Nettie was one of the slaves for the Darque's? And perhaps knowing the growing evil and power that was brewing on the Plantation with the Darque family, Nettie along with the other slaves summon the Loa to the America's through a ritual (perhaps they find a blood descendant of the shadowman amongst them).

Oooh...I had forgotten about Nettie! I'm down with that

Nettie might be the one present when the babies were born. They gave her dialogue, but not a name.
She may have already started working on a plan to stop Darque in the years that the kids were growing up.

[bygranddesign]

Nettie might be the one present when the babies were born. They gave her dialogue, but not a name.
She may have already started working on a plan to stop Darque in the years that the kids were growing up.

yep.. i was thinking the same thing

[DrSoup007]

Nettie might be the one present when the babies were born. They gave her dialogue, but not a name.
She may have already started working on a plan to stop Darque in the years that the kids were growing up.

yep.. i was thinking the same thing

Oooh, I see something,

[greg]

Oooh, I see something,

In the book? What page?


[Edit: Dang it! I went looking for whatever you see and saw something that's not right. Lamp shades didn't exist in the 1820s.]

[bygranddesign]

[Edit: Dang it! I went looking for whatever you see and saw something that's not right. Lamp shades didn't exist in the 1820s.]

In the Valiant Universe it did!

[jmatt]

One of the questions that I had was, wouldn't "Darque" be a name chosen after getting into magic, so what was the original family name?
Could it have been Boniface? (And wouldn't the slaves have ALSO used the name Boniface?)

Wow, that's a cool idea.

[Knightt]

Jack's ability to use the Shadowman power even without training could be the result of the power itself being the strongest it has ever been.

Possibly, Greg but I think that is an easy out answer, a "magic makes anything possible" approach. Jack is taking all of this in without freaking out. That's what has prevented me from really digging the character. I know this isn't VH-1 but Jack went through a rough period of character development that I think would be a great asset to entire line months ago and especially now. I'm not getting the "Valiant has been around forever" feeling that i got back in VH-1 and I think its something which is currently missing and required to fill in the richness of the VU. What essentially bugs me is that I can't nail down what I believe to be missing. Whether it be a three issue story arc of Aric chillin' in the penthouse (is he ever going to get the penthouse like we're used to or will he live in the armor until issue 60 and we find out he has been dreaming since issue one because he was knocked unconscious by the Vine and has been laying in that field this whole time) getting his head together and watching History Channel HD in an effort to catch up on history and effect some normalcy in his life or just something to slow down this epic ride.

Doesn't anyone need a breather? XO: Visigoth to slave to armored avenger to intergalactic death-bringer in less than 11 issues and only one change of underwear.

[JustinJordan]

Quick Shadowman #0 question...

Who nailed Daddy Darque to the tree (so he could have the Lyceum vision)?

I can answer that, but it's not exciting - servants. He's doing something derived from Odin's hanging from Yggdrasil, so he did it to himself.

[Blood of Heroes]

Quick Shadowman #0 question...

Who nailed Daddy Darque to the tree (so he could have the Lyceum vision)?

I can answer that, but it's not exciting - servants. He's doing something derived from Odin's hanging from Yggdrasil, so he did it to himself.

Jame Earl Jones didn't have him hung from the Tree of Woe?

[JustinJordan]

Quick Shadowman #0 question...

Who nailed Daddy Darque to the tree (so he could have the Lyceum vision)?

I can answer that, but it's not exciting - servants. He's doing something derived from Odin's hanging from Yggdrasil, so he did it to himself.

Jame Earl Jones didn't have him hung from the Tree of Woe?

I'd be lying if I said I wasn't tempted to put that in there. Something like "I contemplated this on the Tree of Woe" but I fought back the urge.

[BugsySig]

Quick Shadowman #0 question...

Who nailed Daddy Darque to the tree (so he could have the Lyceum vision)?

I can answer that, but it's not exciting - servants. He's doing something derived from Odin's hanging from Yggdrasil, so he did it to himself.

Jame Earl Jones didn't have him hung from the Tree of Woe?

I'd be lying if I said I wasn't tempted to put that in there. Something like "I contemplated this on the Tree of Woe" but I fought back the urge.

Dude, you were already high on my cool list, but that just bumped you up like 10 more notches