Why are you under whelmed by Shadowman?

[Dr. Solar]

I think I feel properly whelmed by this book.

I need to revisit issue 6 though. I read through it waaay too fast.

[Big Red]

What I've come to notice is that this book is more popular with new Valiant fans than it is with the old fans. Perhaps because the new fans are discovering the elements and intricacies of this book slowly where as the old fans already know what Shadowman is about and want it to develop a bit faster?

The original Shadowman book was great and this is a slightly different take.

I think many old fans want this to be more like the original book.

I also think that many are looking at the original series with nostalgia and rose colored glasses.

I loved the first series but not every issue was gold. Issue 1 was good. Issue 2 was ok. Issue 3 was ok. The Unity issues (4 & 5) were great and issue 6 was terrible. Then Bob Hall took over and it became a great series. But still not all was gold. Blister was a terrrrrrible villian. I'll take Mr. Twist over him any day and twice on Sundays.

Mr. Twist is too campy for you? Go back and read the many (too many ) issues with Blister.

I'm an old-school fan too, but I'm really enjoying the new series.

[400yrs]

What I've come to notice is that this book is more popular with new Valiant fans than it is with the old fans. Perhaps because the new fans are discovering the elements and intricacies of this book slowly where as the old fans already know what Shadowman is about and want it to develop a bit faster?

The original Shadowman book was great and this is a slightly different take.

I think many old fans want this to be more like the original book.

I also think that many are looking at the original series with nostalgia and rose colored glasses.

I loved the first series but not every issue was gold. Issue 1 was good. Issue 2 was ok. Issue 3 was ok. The Unity issues (4 & 5) were great and issue 6 was terrible. Then Bob Hall took over and it became a great series. But still not all was gold. Blister was a terrrrrrible villian. I'll take Mr. Twist over him any day and twice on Sundays.

Mr. Twist is too campy for you? Go back and read the many (too many ) issues with Blister.

I'm an old-school fan too, but I'm really enjoying the new series.

Blister was definitely campy, but was supposed to be. It was the 90s. That stuff doesn't work today.

[Shadowman99]

Lol, I thought Blister really was lame He did get a bit scary when he was actually fighting because of his strength and toughness, but his design and dialogue mostly just made me laugh after the inital "wtf?!" moment

I'd definitely take Twist 'instead of' anytime.

I guess I come at this at a strange angle, because I read the retro series for the first time only a couple of months ago. I did enjoy it, it wasn't what I expected it to be at all, but it was definitely well worth the read. I also read the Acclaim Shadowman and found the same as above ^

I also read the current publication of Shadowman alongside these two, coming in fresh there too.

So like I said, I guess I come at this from a bit of an oblique angle because I have read the old stuff prior to reading the new stuff, but it's *ALL* been new to me

At the time I regarded and read Bob Hall and Acclaim Shadowman as independent stories, and I've pretty much done the same and have been reading the new Shadowman as an independant comic and taking it as it comes without comparison to the old stories and have enjoyed it just as much as I have the other ones.

So, from the perspective of my 'new reader' side; the story's been just fine and the action has entertained, but I'm dying for the story to shift up a gear, and get more of the voodoo and magic in there

[mp6pack]

KXXX You are right on it. Ive been a Shawdowman collector since the 90's issue 3. I.m just not as entertained as I thought I wanted to be.. or it could be. I think our expectations are too high for these new titles. Some have met expectations, others surpassed, and other are sub par.... what can you do.

[400yrs]

KXXX You are right on it. Ive been a Shawdowman collector since the 90's issue 3. I.m just not as entertained as I thought I wanted to be.. or it could be. I think our expectations are too high for these new titles. Some have met expectations, others surpassed, and other are sub par.... what can you do.

Try #0. It's good and has the right feel to it compared to the other issues.

[lorddunlow]

If Shadowman continues like #0, this thread will be soooooo dead!

[carter3175]

If Shadowman continues like #0, this thread will be soooooo dead!

#0 WAS DAMN GOOD. Can we have more of this PLEASE????!!!!

[erwinrafael]

I don't mean to say bad things against someone who did great work for the VEI relaunch, but does #0 sort of indicate that...Patch should have stuck to the art side of things?

[BugsySig]

I don't mean to say bad things against someone who did great work for the VEI relaunch, but does #0 sort of indicate that...Patch should have stuck to the art side of things?

Been saying that for a while...he's barely on issues 5 & 6 and they were the best to date, then had no involvement with #0...and we all know how that turned out...

[bygranddesign]

I don't mean to say bad things against someone who did great work for the VEI relaunch, but does #0 sort of indicate that...Patch should have stuck to the art side of things?

Been saying that for a while...he's barely on issues 5 & 6 and they were the best to date, then had no involvement with #0...and we all know how that turned out...

I would hate to jump to conclusions about Patch - I don't think we know how involved he was in terms of the dialogue and the development of Jack/Shadowman which is/was the main problem. #5 was a great issue but #6 was a big step back, imo

The development of Jack is still lingering ... but hopefully #0 is a turning point in terms of a story, mood, vision for this title and we can put this thread to rest

[BugsySig]

I don't mean to say bad things against someone who did great work for the VEI relaunch, but does #0 sort of indicate that...Patch should have stuck to the art side of things?

Been saying that for a while...he's barely on issues 5 & 6 and they were the best to date, then had no involvement with #0...and we all know how that turned out...

I would hate to jump to conclusions about Patch - I don't think we know how involved he was in terms of the dialogue and the development of Jack/Shadowman which is/was the main problem. #5 was a great issue but #6 was a big step back, imo

The development of Jack is still lingering ... but hopefully #0 is a turning point in terms of a story, mood, vision for this title and we can put this thread to rest

According to Patch (based on a post he made elsewhere) he was more involved in the scripting and dialogue in issues 5 & 6 than the earlier issues...so who knows. The next arc will be the most telling as Patch likely still had input on the rest of the current arc. It's always interesting when a book goes from being co-written to a single writer.

[Patch]

According to Patch (based on a post he made elsewhere) he was more involved in the scripting and dialogue in issues 5 & 6 than the earlier issues...so who knows. The next arc will be the most telling as Patch likely still had input on the rest of the current arc. It's always interesting when a book goes from being co-written to a single writer.

I didn't write any of issue 6.
Shadowman isn't representative of the way I write. It's a blend of ideas and dialogue; mostly Justin, enough Warren Simons that he should probably have been co-credited, and a little bit of me.
I felt the book needed one less writer so I stepped aside.

[KXXX]

According to Patch (based on a post he made elsewhere) he was more involved in the scripting and dialogue in issues 5 & 6 than the earlier issues...so who knows. The next arc will be the most telling as Patch likely still had input on the rest of the current arc. It's always interesting when a book goes from being co-written to a single writer.

I didn't write any of issue 6.
Shadowman isn't representative of the way I write. It's a blend of ideas and dialogue; mostly Justin, enough Warren Simons that he should probably have been co-credited, and a little bit of me.
I felt the book needed one less writer so I stepped aside.

Your art will be sorely missed, sir.

[grendeljd]

According to Patch (based on a post he made elsewhere) he was more involved in the scripting and dialogue in issues 5 & 6 than the earlier issues...so who knows. The next arc will be the most telling as Patch likely still had input on the rest of the current arc. It's always interesting when a book goes from being co-written to a single writer.

I didn't write any of issue 6.
Shadowman isn't representative of the way I write. It's a blend of ideas and dialogue; mostly Justin, enough Warren Simons that he should probably have been co-credited, and a little bit of me.
I felt the book needed one less writer so I stepped aside.

I for one will seriously miss your involvement in Shadowman. I have yet to be 'underwhelmed' by this book, and your artwork has been particularly inspiring to me.

I'm still hopeful that once you sow your wild oats with DC, you will come back into the fold of your true family and carry on making full comics with Valiant.

[Shadowman99]

I really liked the art style and writing style of issue #0, and personally I'd like the art to keep in that sort of vein permanently. I know that different artists and writers will come and go, but I think that this sort of style really really suits the tone and mood that I think is really 'Shadowman'

[BugsySig]

According to Patch (based on a post he made elsewhere) he was more involved in the scripting and dialogue in issues 5 & 6 than the earlier issues...so who knows. The next arc will be the most telling as Patch likely still had input on the rest of the current arc. It's always interesting when a book goes from being co-written to a single writer.

I didn't write any of issue 6.
Shadowman isn't representative of the way I write. It's a blend of ideas and dialogue; mostly Justin, enough Warren Simons that he should probably have been co-credited, and a little bit of me.
I felt the book needed one less writer so I stepped aside.

Thank you for clarifying.

Maybe, then, some of the issues people have were due to the old "too many cooks in the kitchen" problem. No one persons fault or error in particular.

Personally my only issue was the tone of the first arc, but I think that has been addressed in the last few issues.

[jmatt]

Hey Patch, I love your EW homage cover. Please continue to work with Valiant!

[Baramos]

Something that occurs to me looking at the posts regarding this book's "superheroics v. horror" thing, with some saying it should be more like a superhero book and the others saying it should be more like a horror story. The thing is, this book seems to be developed specifically to bridge the gap between the original Valiant Shadowman, who was much more like a superhero with Batman-type stories, and the Acclaim Shadowman which was more about the supernatural horror. I mean, in the original Valiant I remember reading issues of Shadowman with zero supernatural stuff in them, like Jack tracking down a serial killer, for instance. And no, the serial killer didn't use any powers. Whereas the Acclaim series was entirely built around the supernatural Deadside stuff.

So if it seems like it is meandering between both, it is probably due to the attempt to incorporate such fairly different visions into one whole.

[Shadowman99]

Something that occurs to me looking at the posts regarding this book's "superheroics v. horror" thing, with some saying it should be more like a superhero book and the others saying it should be more like a horror story. The thing is, this book seems to be developed specifically to bridge the gap between the original Valiant Shadowman, who was much more like a superhero with Batman-type stories, and the Acclaim Shadowman which was more about the supernatural horror. I mean, in the original Valiant I remember reading issues of Shadowman with zero supernatural stuff in them, like Jack tracking down a serial killer, for instance. And no, the serial killer didn't use any powers. Whereas the Acclaim series was entirely built around the supernatural Deadside stuff.

So if it seems like it is meandering between both, it is probably due to the attempt to incorporate such fairly different visions into one whole.

There's probably some truth to this if it were to be known.

[jmatt]

The thing is, this book seems to be developed specifically to bridge the gap between the original Valiant Shadowman, who was much more like a superhero with Batman-type stories, and the Acclaim Shadowman which was more about the supernatural horror.

An interesting observation. Although we haven't really seen much 'crime fighting' other than Shadowman busting up that one drug lab. But I think I agree.

[Carson]

Hey Patch, I love your EW homage cover. Please continue to work with Valiant!

PATCH!!! Please don't jump ship whatever you do. You are an amazing artist and I've enjoyed both your run on Shadowman as well as the many covers. You are a huge part of the Valiant family and have been a cornerstone of the re-launch! Thanks for all your hard work in bringing these characters back to life.

[bygranddesign]

Hey Patch, I love your EW homage cover. Please continue to work with Valiant!

PATCH!!! Please don't jump ship whatever you do. You are an amazing artist and I've enjoyed both your run on Shadowman as well as the many covers. You are a huge part of the Valiant family and have been a cornerstone of the re-launch! Thanks for all your hard work in bringing these characters back to life.

+1000000

I hope to see Patch on a future title for Valiant! Easily one of the best artist in the comic world.
Great work on Shadowman and love all his cover work especially some of the upcoming covers like Bloodshot #13 ...

[leonmallett]

I ahve been out of and behind my comics reading for the past 6 months or so, so over the past few nights read Shadowman #1-6 and #0.

And really, I cannot see where the criticism is coming from.

I love the Bob Hall and Tom Ryder era of Shadowman; anyone doubts that I I can point to a lengthy post on the matter. This sin't that. Nor should it be. Emulating THAT or trying to would have been a huge mistake. That said, there are clear parallels beyond the obvious trappings of character, motifs and setting. Melding themes from the VALIANT and Acclaim eras makes sense.

Jack as a lead is a cipher; he is learning who he is and where he comes from. He is kind of an every-man just trying to do the right thing in a situation where things are beyond his control, which is a cool echo of the Hall run.

Dropping the jazz sax player aspect was fine for me; Engelhart seemed to be a bit obsessed with that with Night Man and Shadowman, and it seems in hindsight more of a writer's pet thing at the time than anything else. Clear water on that is cool.

I can see the Buffy/Angel parallels that have been remarked upon, which is probably no bad thing - there is an appetite fro that kind of story-telling, clearly, and has been since we saw BtVS launched as a TV show. But to read that this Shadowman is 'campy'? Camp must be in the eye of the beholder because I did not get that.

I really enjoyed those issues and will stay on. Jack is a far more sympathetic character than Pete Stancek in the first issues of their respective books. He maybe less layered than Stanchek, but writing another d!#% (r-read what he did with Kris; he is a d!#% and then some) would have been a bad call.

All these characters are new, and will be on their own journeys. Shadowman's looks like it could take some interesting turns.

I don't get the indifference and even disdain for this book. Honestly, i think I would rank it as the third strongest start for my money of the new books.

I am catching up on my other runs, so it will be interesting to see how i feel when I have done so, but if the Jordan and Zircher could stay on the book I would be very happy.

[mrozisik]

Shadowman # 0 was very good. Could be a game changer from a feel and atmosphere of the book.

Shadowman 1 - 4 were borderline boring. From 5 onwards, there is improvement, number 0 being the best of the bunch so far.