Why are you under whelmed by Shadowman?

[TheFallen]

I have seen a few people say they are very disappointed in the Shadowman series and I wanted to know why.

Is it because you are a fan of the original and this title is not up to standard or is it something else?

Personally, I am still thoroughly enjoying the series. I have no connection to the original series but the supporting characters and villains in this new series are very appealing and I am enjoying the darker side of the Valiant Universe.

[Spylocke]

I can only speak for myself but I don't dislike Shadowman so much as I was underwhelmed by it. A big part of this is my fault because even my cynical, comic book cliche' ridden brain was super excited about this title. My favorite Valiant title from the old days beautifully drawn by Zircher and and written by the man behind The Strange Case of Luthor Strode? I couldn't contain my inner fanboy.

Instead of taking it as it was I took it as what it could have been in my fevered imagination so I was a little disappointed.

[Zaphod]

I enjoyed the Bob Hall run but wasn't a huge fan. I could give or take the original Shadowman, I am enjoying the plotting, the attempt to build up the Shadowman Mythology but I dislike the revamped character, the dialogue is weak as is the action and art with the loss of Zircher.

Without comparing Shadowman to anything, there are less things I am enjoying about the title than things I dislike.

Comparing it to previous Shadowmen (having not read either Acclaim version) Jack is disinteresting and comparing to other VEI offerings, it has sunk below A&A for last place...and I have been severely disappointed by VEI's A&A.

[manga4life]

I felt the series was on a winning streak until the 4th issue, which I felt was downright terrible and a huge let down as the first arch's finale. Luckily, issues #5 and #6 were absolutely stellar and my thoughts on this series are extremely high. I love the art, even without the original artist, and I think the current story has been absolutely phenomenal. But that's just my taste, others may feel differently and that's cool too.

[TheFallen]

As I said in your blog thread, we have very similar tastes. I am intrigued that it seems to be the people who were fans of the original Shadowman are underwhelmed by this one. Perhaps this one is more new reader friendly?

[BugsySig]

I liked the first issue, but didn't like the first arc all together. #5 totally turned it around as it took a step into much darker territory. As cool of an idea as Mr. Twist was (a living spell made from human body parts), I couldn't take him seriously in the white suit...too "Buffy" for me (sorry Chiclo ).

The assassin, the diner scene and Samedi moved the book more into the direction I was expecting, and outside of the art issues I thought #6 continued with that. I've had issues here and there with dialogue, but not to where its turned me off the book, but enough to notice two or three times.

I'll also say, I am not a huge fan of the redesign. It's fine, and I get the modern "urban vigilante" look, but every time I see Josiah as Shadowman I think how much cooler that look is than Jack's.

Unlike others, I don't see Jack as underdeveloped. Since the end of the first issue, he's been wrapped up in this world like a whirlwind and I don't think he's had the time for much introspection, but we've seen some in each of the last two issues. Arc 1 built the world/mythology, Arc 2 is establishing the big bad of Master Darque and Samedi, and Arc 3 should be Jack's to run with once those two areas are set.

Overall, I'd put this book in a bundle with Bloodshot and XO below A&A and Harbinger. I still enjoy it a lot, and its much better than 90% of the Marvel and DC books I've read lately, but I don't think it's as good as it could be.

[TheFallen]

I will totally agree about the design for Josiah. That is who I thought Shadowman was supposed to look like. I have grown to like Jack's look and the fact that there is a toy coming out with that look makes it easier to like

I also agree about this title being better than most Marvel and DC titles. I have completely dropped them and don't miss them. I am all in Valiant.

[manga4life]

I will totally agree about the design for Josiah. That is who I thought Shadowman was supposed to look like. I have grown to like Jack's look and the fact that there is a toy coming out with that look makes it easier to like

I also agree about this title being better than most Marvel and DC titles. I have completely dropped them and don't miss them. I am all in Valiant.

Are you my long lost brother?

[manga4life]

I kind of like Jack's character design overall,bbut I do agree that Josiah is a much more badass look and I hope we haven't seen the last of him. All in all I would give this book a solid 8.5/10 while I would give Harbinger a 9.5/10, Bloodshot an 8/10, A&A a 5/10, and X-O a 9.75/10.

[TheFallen]

I will totally agree about the design for Josiah. That is who I thought Shadowman was supposed to look like. I have grown to like Jack's look and the fact that there is a toy coming out with that look makes it easier to like

I also agree about this title being better than most Marvel and DC titles. I have completely dropped them and don't miss them. I am all in Valiant.

Are you my long lost brother?

From another Mother and Father

[TheFallen]

I kind of like Jack's character design overall,bbut I do agree that Josiah is a much more badass look and I hope we haven't seen the last of him. All in all I would give this book a solid 8.5/10 while I would give Harbinger a 9.75/10, Bloodshot an 8.5/10, A&A a 5/10, and X-O a 8/10.

^ Fixed it for you.

I am expecting Josiah to show up in #0

[manga4life]

I kind of like Jack's character design overall,bbut I do agree that Josiah is a much more badass look and I hope we haven't seen the last of him. All in all I would give this book a solid 8.5/10 while I would give Harbinger a 9.75/10, Bloodshot an 8.5/10, A&A a 5/10, and X-O a 8/10.

^ Fixed it for you.

I am expecting Josiah to show up in #0

Similar tastes but I can see our opinions on X-O vary a wee bit. No biggie, lol.

[nonplayer]

Its just not my thing I love the art. But Im not the trentcher, goth,metalica person it would sure apeal to.
Plus Im spending to much money already with all the other valiant titles Im getting plus trades so it had to go.

[TheFallen]

I changed the title to make it fit with most people's replies.

[Paradigm38]

The dialogue was rather lacking last issue, but the story is progressing nicely. This issue has a LOT of plot threads introduced. And the art, well, multiple artists=multiple styles=multiple taste reaction.

[erwinrafael]

I liked the original series but that is not why I don't like current series. I have been vocal in these boards of not trying to compare the current incarnations to previous incarnations when I was defending X-O Manowar and Archer and Armstrong.

The problem with the book for me is that the lead character is uninteresting. His motivations for transitioning from hating his father and then suddenly embracing the Shadowman legacy was not fleshed out, and it is something I expected to have been fleshed out a bit already given that the storytelling is decompressed. What's the hook for Jack? Why should we care for him?

The supporting cast is actually ok, specially Jaunty, Dox and Darque. Alyssa, despite her extended panel time, is not developed as a character. Fred Van Lente has given Sister Thomas Aquinas more character with half the number of panels used.

I will totally agree about the design for Josiah. That is who I thought Shadowman was supposed to look like. I have grown to like Jack's look and the fact that there is a toy coming out with that look makes it easier to like

This is another source of contention for me. Patrick Zircher's art is good but it adds to the confusion of what this title wants to be. Is it a superhero book, which fits Zircher's art and the design of Jack's Shadowman? Or is it more of a horror/magic book, given the voodoo elements and the characterization of Darque and Baron Zamedi? Right now the book is confused. Personally, I would prefer that they go second route. I think this explains why I find Dave Johnson's covers more appealing than Zircher's. And the best art is in issue #5, the one drawn by Roberto dela Torre which is just so full of mood. Look at the following comparison:





In the second, the mystic mood od the Deadside is all Brian Reber. In the first, dela Torre contributes to the mood with his linework.

I also agree about this title being better than most Marvel and DC titles. I have completely dropped them and don't miss them. I am all in Valiant.

Not to drag this thread into a very different discussion but if you actually see this Shadowman as better than Waid and Samnee's Daredevil, Fraction and Aja's Hawkeye, Hickman's Avengers titles, Remender and Romita Jr.'s Captain America, Fraction's Thor, Spurrier's X-Men: Legacy or even Bendis' reinvigorated X-Men titles, I don't think we will come to an agreement on what a good comic book reads like.

[manga4life]

I would rather read Shadowman than anything DC has going on (and I actually like DC) and I would certainly read Shadowman over anything that terrible company known as Marvel is doing, or has done since around 2002/2003. I've kept tabs in Marvel here and there just for the sake of it (without spending one red cent) and have been so turned off since House of M and long before that with Heroes Reborn that everything I've touched I really have hated quite a bit. DC has had some fun stuff in my opinion, but nothing that has really made me jump up and get really excited about, that's where Valiant and Dynamite step in.

It's all personal preference, really. I just prefer Shadowman to anything the "big 2" have going on at this point in time.

[manga4life]

My question would be for those who are not enjoying it, how much longer until you drop it?

As it's well known by now, I'm personally enjoying it and don't see myself ever dropping it unless it just happened to get really bad. I'm enjoying the characters (especially the villains), the art, and the general plot and plan on buying this for the long haul.

[erwinrafael]

My question would be for those who are not enjoying it, how much longer until you drop it?

As it's well known by now, I'm personally enjoying it and don't see myself ever dropping it unless it just happened to get really bad. I'm enjoying the characters (especially the villains), the art, and the general plot and plan on buying this for the long haul.

I am giving it until the first post-Zircher arc. I am not saying that Zircher is the cause but maybe, as mentioned before, having two writers is contributing to the identity confusion of the title.

[Elveen]

My #1 issue with Shadowman is that I don't really care much for
Jack. The mythogy is interesting the surrounding characters are
Interesting but Jack..... Not so much.
No time for any character development.

But I don't plan on dropping it. I still like it.

[MoonChild]

This: The problem with the book for me is that the lead character is uninteresting. His motivations for transitioning from hating his father and then suddenly embracing the Shadowman legacy was not fleshed out, and it is something I expected to have been fleshed out a bit already given that the storytelling is decompressed. What's the hook for Jack? Why should we care for him?

And This: My #1 issue with Shadowman is that I don't really care much for
Jack. The mythogy is interesting the surrounding characters are
Interesting but Jack..... Not so much.
No time for any character development.

But I don't plan on dropping it. I still like it.

[Bone-A-Fach-ee]

I think unlike most of the other titles that are more decompressed, this one is moving TOO fast. Jack goes from a loner type dude who keeps to himself, and is trying to track down his parents to all of a sudden a superhero that is 100% committed to being Shadowman. Oh, and he apparently knows how to use all his powers immediately.
We really haven't learned much about Jack. And although it's great to see so many characters in this book, I think it oversaturates, and we don't get enough time with ANY of the characters.
I really have no connection with Jack. No real disdain for Darque, or care about him at all.
My favorite part was Jaunty, and he didn't even appear in this issue!
Dr. Mirage is cool, but she needs her own title, and out of Shadowman fast.
Alyssa is pretty pointless, and even Dox doesn't seem like the savior he should be.

I guess after writing all that, I realize that there's not much character development. I've kind of already forgotten about Mr. Twist, and don't even understand how he died? Was just never impressed with any of the writing unfortunately.
My favorite issue so far was #4, and really any of the pages Dr. Mirage has appeared in so far. I'm more into her character than Jack.

And yes, Shadowman was one of my favorite VH1 characters. He was the main focus of the title. And although VEI seems to be against inner monologue with some of their characters, this is one character that would greatly benefit from it. It was a huge help to him in VH1. And he really just needs more pages dedicated to him. The book is split too many ways now, imo.

So, Shadowman can punch and kick. What's he supposed to do if he ever faces Darque? They made it work in VH1, but I can't see how Shadowman is actually anywhere near the level of power of Darque this time around. He accidentally banished him back to the Dead Side in 4, and even that conflict felt rushed and over just for the sake of being over.

Whew. Sorry about that whole rant. Just trying to work it all out for myself as well.

[mrozisik]

The reason the current Shadowman is underwhelming so far is because it is much closer to the Acclaim version than the Valiant version.

If you look at the original Valiant series, the title hit its stride with the Shadowman # 8 - 12 epic. (Still remains the best Shadowman storyline in my opinion). The exciting part of Shadowman was "New Orleans" as a character, a super interesting villain in Darque siblings and the life of Jack.

None of which applies to the new series. What we have is an updated version of "Zero". Also what is that thing Shadowman is using as a weapon? Is it for toy purposes? Or for video game purposes? Sounds like the Keanu Reeves version of "Constantine" to me...

Bloodshot I wasn't expecting much. Shadowman I expected much and disappointed so far.

[dornwolf]

I've been enjoying the book so far as well as all the books except for Harbinger really. I do feel like many others that Jack just hasn't been explored enough just yet. I actually feel that way for X-O as well. I'm hoping we get some arcs where we slow down and explore more. I'm guessing the 0 issue will be ripe for it.

[KXXX]

Can we just say 'it sucks' and move on?

Okay, so it's not terrible... but....

It could be much better.

The Shadowman game from Acclaim was what got me into Valiant in the first place, so it goes without saying that I was very excited about Shadowman coming back. I kept an open mind and didn't count myself among the purists who held one version of the character over another. I hoped for an amalgum of the three prior incarnations. I got a generic super hero book.

The best thing about original Jack is that we knew what was going on in his head, we knew how the mantle affected his psyche because of his inner dialogue. It was all jazz, baby, and Jack could play as he fought against the light, you dig? Zero was Zero... I never got attached to him but I loved the first story arc (I'm still making my way throught the early teens and have yet to read the last four or so issues, which are supposed to be awesome.) Volume 3 Shadowman was a stone-cold badass who seemed right at home in his role as Shadowman. Mike LeRoi from the Shadowman game was an effective character because he held some guilt for past actions in his life, a good contrast to the scale of the main story.

So who is VEI Shadowman? Your guess is as good as mine. He's a warm body and not much else. That's the biggest issue I have. I have no idea who he is.

The art in this book is fantastic and I'll be sad to see Patch go.

As for the pacing, I'm not sure why but the more recent issues especially have left me feeling like I had a glass of water for dinner. There just isn't much substance to it.

As I previously stated, Shadowman seems to be following the Valiant Formula and it works less for this book than any other. The shadowy organization, the semi-reluctant hero, the alternate plane of reality... they just seem so less in this book. Deadside was a big part of the later Shadowman stuff and so it's almost a requirement, but being that the vine have their gatherings and Archer has his knowledge database thingy, it's too benign. Previous Deadsides were truly miserable places. It was a place where everyone went when they die, no matter what. No heaven, no hell, just wailers and shakers as far as the eye could see and beyond. Now it's a place of many doors. Okay.

The Brethren is The Sect is The Plantings is The Null is PRS is the Green Dragon Lamas is the Harbinger Foundation. The difference is this shadowy organization isn't particularly interesting.

Being a Shadowman is a hefty burden with a dark legacy. I look at the first teased images of Josiah and Jack's mother and the amulet, etc. and I can't even believe this is the same book. It's like listening to a truly amazing piece of music written in a foreign language that moves your soul and warms you bones and makes the hairs on your arms stand up until you punch the lyrics into Google translate and find out it's a grocery list set to music.

Following everything I wrote... I guess my opinion is that this book needs to solidify itself in a much darker reality.