Harbinger #0 Discussion

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kjjohanson
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Re: Harbinger #0 Discussion

Post by kjjohanson »

greg wrote:
kjjohanson wrote:Does anyone have a decent-quality scan of the back cover of the gatefold version?
This one is decent. :wink:
http://www.valiantfan.com/valiant/cd/ve ... _large.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Thanks. Wanted to test a hunch. I noticed that the Pullbox version on this issue was Version 3, whereas usually they're Version 2 (with the regular version being Version 1, and the incentives being 3 and up); if the gatefold had been a higher version number than the Pullbox, which is normally the case, that would have meant that there was a mystery variant out there. But that's not the case (gatefold is Version 2).
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Spylocke
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Re: Harbinger #0 Discussion

Post by Spylocke »

I think it did a great job of telling us how Harada got his philosophy. His country was ravaged by a group (by their view) serving a greater good and probably hated them for it, he then learned that his own people were hated for their actions by the Koreans and then had the waters muddied even further by the Japanese soldier who explained some of the economic reasons for Japan getting into the war.

Were I young Harada I would take these lessons from my experiences: Everybody thinks they are a victim and therefore make excuses for any atrocities they inflict. Money is power and that there are no "good guys".
I can definitely see how the child Harada grew into the man he is presently.

After reading this Harada seems more like a ruthless but ultimately benevolent dictator rather than a straight-up villain. He's just giving out rice balls on a bigger scale now and in order to do that sometimes he needs to kill a ton of people.
This did was a zero issue did its job in explaining where Harada is coming from.
I don't think he's a good guy but I understand him.

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Re: Harbinger #0 Discussion

Post by Dallow Spicer1 »

Really enjoyed Harbinger #0. Whilst I did think it would focus entirely on Toyo Harada all the way through, the fact that it didn't was not detrimental to the story. As has already been said by others, great art, very harrowing scenes of the after effects of the nuclear bomb.

I read this the same day as Shadowman #4 and Harby #0 was a noticeable longer read, somehow Dysart packs a lot into 22 pages!

4.5 out of 5 Great stuff! :D

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apainter
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Re: Harbinger #0 Discussion

Post by apainter »

What I find strange is that Dysart is playing with a real life person. Bashir al-Assad is the current ruler of Syria. As indicated in Harbinger 0, he was groomed for a leadership role after his brother, Bassel, was killed in a car accident, driving his Mercedes through an early morning fog. That seems to be where the similarities to "our" al-Assad and the Valiant U's al-Assad end. In the real world, he hasn't committed suicide (issue 6) or given himself over to a mob to be killed (issue 0). (Note that al-Assad is named in issue 6, but is only referred to as "the President of Syria" in 0.)

Also, he has more hair in our world.

I wonder if this type of thing will continue. It has the possibility of completely changing world politics. Perhaps the Valiant U will start looking less and less like "the world outside your window" and start becoming its own thing. I'm not used to seeing things like this in a super-hero comic. Most comic universes -- no matter how fantastic -- somehow have all their adventures on the fringe where they don't affect real-world politics or culture or the average Joe on the street, in order to maintain a semblance to "the world outside your window".

Darpan is pretty scary. The kid just walks into that palace, having a discussion with Harada, while all around him people are blowing their heads off and cutting out their eyes. Those things didn't faze him any more than bursting heads bothered Harada. I would tend to think that being able to read minds would make you more empathetic and less likely to kill so casually. The opposite apparently holds true.

Art

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Re: Harbinger #0 Discussion

Post by chriskay99 »

Like others, I felt this issue was good but not great. Was expecting more flashback and not the flip to the present day. It delved into what makes Harada tick but I felt like we kind of already knew he was a survivor of Hiroshima from the previews and such, and didn't gain a ton of new information beyond that. It fleshed it out for sure, but guess I was just expecting more from a zero issue.

Edit: I will say that I enjoyed this issue more about a second reading. Maybe my expectations were realigned before starting the second reading.
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Re: Harbinger #0 Discussion

Post by jmatt »

Chiclo wrote:There are several instances where they are tying the past and present together by having dialogue mirrored in both time frames. The Syrian saying this is another oppourtunity to mirror the past's dialogue in the present.
I have to say, that although I would have thought a zero issue would have focused solely on Harada's past, I really liked the way Josh wove the two timelines together. Very artful.

And when Assad was going nuts and rambling on and on about the phone ringing, the soundtrack in my head was "Mother" by the Police, which has a very distinct Middle East sound to it. :lol:

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Re: Harbinger #0 Discussion

Post by KXXX »

I finally have a reason to post this here... thus combining three of my favorite things: Valiant, Hokuto no Ken and Monster Magnet. :applause:


Please enjoy what is completely relevant due to the (original) post-nuclear war head-popper and grey-area heores/villains.


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Re: Harbinger #0 Discussion

Post by lorddunlow »

KXXX wrote:I finally have a reason to post this here... thus combining three of my favorite things: Valiant, Hokuto no Ken and Monster Magnet. :applause:


Please enjoy what is completely relevant due to the (original) post-nuclear war head-popper and grey-area heores/villains.
One's posts have to be relevant to the thread topic on these forums? I'm in big trouble then.
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Re: Harbinger #0 Discussion

Post by Baramos »

apainter wrote:What I find strange is that Dysart is playing with a real life person. Bashir al-Assad is the current ruler of Syria. As indicated in Harbinger 0, he was groomed for a leadership role after his brother, Bassel, was killed in a car accident, driving his Mercedes through an early morning fog. That seems to be where the similarities to "our" al-Assad and the Valiant U's al-Assad end. In the real world, he hasn't committed suicide (issue 6) or given himself over to a mob to be killed (issue 0). (Note that al-Assad is named in issue 6, but is only referred to as "the President of Syria" in 0.)

Also, he has more hair in our world.

I wonder if this type of thing will continue. It has the possibility of completely changing world politics. Perhaps the Valiant U will start looking less and less like "the world outside your window" and start becoming its own thing. I'm not used to seeing things like this in a super-hero comic. Most comic universes -- no matter how fantastic -- somehow have all their adventures on the fringe where they don't affect real-world politics or culture or the average Joe on the street, in order to maintain a semblance to "the world outside your window".

Darpan is pretty scary. The kid just walks into that palace, having a discussion with Harada, while all around him people are blowing their heads off and cutting out their eyes. Those things didn't faze him any more than bursting heads bothered Harada. I would tend to think that being able to read minds would make you more empathetic and less likely to kill so casually. The opposite apparently holds true.

Art
Yeah, I'm going to consider it an actual "alternative universe" world, ala Watchmen. The existence of psiots (and other supernatural forces) is going to affect history going forward. I don't know if they'll make the changes stronger like in Watchmen where actual historical events are quite different from real world history but I have no problem just squaring it away as an alternate world.

They seem to be deliberately making it quite specific--as much as we can assume Al-Assad will eventually be deposed, he might not be killed by a mob ala Qaddafi but attempt to flee/seek asylum and end up being put on trial or jailed indefinitely ala Mubarak. So going ahead and doing a specific cause of death is quite different from other comics companies ways of telling a story--their only concession to is not naming him by his actual name and, as you said, drawing him physically different from his real-life counterpart.

Also the thing with this fictional Assad's brother and being sort of forced into becoming a leader after his brother, who had been groomed for it, died, managed to do the unthinkable, which is make me feel a little bit of pity for a mass murderer like Bashar Al-Assad (or at least the fictional version of him, since who knows if the real Bashar gave two hoots about his real brother or if he feels inadequate or what have you). Few comic books manage to be emotionally moving like that.

Again, I'd give this issue an A+ for not pulling any punches on its political and artistic exploits.

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Re: Harbinger #0 Discussion

Post by jmatt »

Baramos wrote:They seem to be deliberately making it quite specific--as much as we can assume Al-Assad will eventually be deposed, he might not be killed by a mob ala Qaddafi but attempt to flee/seek asylum and end up being put on trial or jailed indefinitely ala Mubarak.
Bashar al-Assad is sitting in a palace somewhere in Syria saying "Holy *SQUEE*!!! They're writing US comics about me being being killed in the street by a mob?! I'm *SQUEE* ing doomed! Could it really be this bad that I'm already considered a grease spot in the annals of history? I'm totally *SQUEE* ed!"

:lol:

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Re: Harbinger #0 Discussion

Post by BugsySig »

jmatt wrote:
Baramos wrote:They seem to be deliberately making it quite specific--as much as we can assume Al-Assad will eventually be deposed, he might not be killed by a mob ala Qaddafi but attempt to flee/seek asylum and end up being put on trial or jailed indefinitely ala Mubarak.
Bashar al-Assad is sitting in a palace somewhere in Syria saying "Holy *SQUEE*!!! They're writing US comics about me being being killed in the street by a mob?! I'm *SQUEE* ing doomed! Could it really be this bad that I'm already considered a grease spot in the annals of history? I'm totally *SQUEE* ed!"

:lol:
I can totally imagine him at his desk going, "Wait. Did I miss something? :? " :lol:
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jmatt
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Re: Harbinger #0 Discussion

Post by jmatt »

BugsySig wrote:I can totally imagine him at his desk going, "Wait. Did I miss something? :? " :lol:
I'll bet he can't wait for the March issue to see how it all turns out.

"Wait, it's a comic, right? Nobody ever actually saw the body. Maybe I played dead and slipped away later in the evening. These nanite things sound promising. Hadad! Get this Project Rising Spirit on the phone immediately!!"

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Re: Harbinger #0 Discussion

Post by hawkeyeps »

That scene should have said "Reality Spoiler Alert" :lol:


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