What other original HC 'Masters' will/should be released?

[Nurples]

I'm excited that they put out the first 8 issues of Bloodshot. What other series will they re-release from the 90s and how far into each series will they go?

[400yrs]

They should do the complete Shadowman, but in 10 - 12 issue or 13 - 15 issue chunks in an over-sized format.

[BugsySig]

Harbinger up to 25
EW up to 10 or 12 (I forget when BWS run stopped)
A&A to 12
Rai 0-8 plus the flip book 1-4
Shadowman to the end of Bob Halls run
The full Quantm & Woody
XO to around 14

And of course Unity eventually if they can work out the legal issues.

[etos45]

My only problem with these Masters Collections is that the original books aren't really worth anything and buying the HC actually costs more than buying the original books in most cases. Sure, you get a new story, but it's only 5-10 pages (I want to say 8, but I don't really remember). Harbinger and X-O made sense because it would cost more to buy the first prints, you got "improved" art, and you got the bonus story. With A&A you took a loss on the cost of the books, but at least they cleaned up the art and had a new story. Now with Bloodshot, you're paying $25 for a story that can be bought for around $2-$3 total, with the same art, and a small new story. It just doesn't seem worth it to me and many of the other issues they could release will have the same problem.

I do admit that I'd like to see Unity collected, but considering it would probably be two HCs at $25 a pop, I'd probably pass on it too. One's that might be worth it for new readers to buy would be Rai and Shadowman, from the looks of it, the rest would be cheaper to by the singles.

[nonplayer]

I understand your dellema but I would love to see a turok dinosaur hunter. Saves me turning all my comic in to a hc and it would cost me 75.00 x 3

[etos45]

I understand your dellema but I would love to see a turok dinosaur hunter. Saves me turning all my comic in to a hc and it would cost me 75.00 x 3

It's doubtful that you'll ever see Turok, Magnus, or Solar outside of a Unity HC or other book appearances. Since they don't own the rights to these characters, there's really no incentive to do it. Also, it's pretty unlikely that, for any series that had an extended run, you will every see the full run in HC format. They might do an Omnibus one day, but I suspect they're going to try to stay as close to early Valiant stories as they can since it gets pretty bad for most of the books later on.

[kjjohanson]

My only problem with these Masters Collections is that the original books aren't really worth anything and buying the HC actually costs more than buying the original books in most cases. Sure, you get a new story, but it's only 5-10 pages (I want to say 8, but I don't really remember). Harbinger and X-O made sense because it would cost more to buy the first prints, you got "improved" art, and you got the bonus story. With A&A you took a loss on the cost of the books, but at least they cleaned up the art and had a new story. Now with Bloodshot, you're paying $25 for a story that can be bought for around $2-$3 total, with the same art, and a small new story. It just doesn't seem worth it to me and many of the other issues they could release will have the same problem.

I do admit that I'd like to see Unity collected, but considering it would probably be two HCs at $25 a pop, I'd probably pass on it too. One's that might be worth it for new readers to buy would be Rai and Shadowman, from the looks of it, the rest would be cheaper to by the singles.

I posted very recently in the "OUR Questions for Valiant's Warren Simons - WARREN ANSWERS" thread a similar question regarding reprints. And I asked Warren and Dinesh about this at NYCC. It seems to me that after the pre-Valiant stuff, there's not much reason to reprint the early Valiant stuff. I inquired about the possibility of an Armorines v2 or Shadowman v3 collection. If I remember correctly, they basically they said that the orders of the Bloodshot book were good, and they'd probably continue to reprint in chronological order (more or less) as long as the demand was there.

Regarding "improved" art, i have to disagree. I only have the Harbinger HC, but from comparing that to the original comic, I imagine this is the situation: for some of the pre-Unity stuff, they don't have digital files of the original comic, so they've had to scan the original comics, and since you can't reprint from that scan (as it would result in a moire pattern), they've had to remove the color and then have it recolored. (I used to work for a small comic-coloring company that did the same for Acclaim's re-released Classics Illustrated books.) The problem with removing the color is where the color is dark, it's going to scan in as part of the black channel, so removing that is going to take precision work, or the quality of the line art is going to suffer. As an example, I pulled out my copy of the Harbinger HC for reference. Take a look at page 117, and the same page from the original (I referred to the original TPB for the same page at the end of Harbinger 4.) Especially in dark areas (e.g. Kris's hair) a lot of the fine lines are missing. To restore the quality of the original linework would require manhours that would significantly increase the cost of the HC. The upside is that since it has to be recolored, there is a noticeable difference in that (e.g. Flamingo's fire effect on 116). If there is no change in the art for later books, I imagine that's because they have the digital files for those and don't have to clean anything up.

[etos45]

Regarding "improved" art, i have to disagree. I only have the Harbinger HC, but from comparing that to the original comic, I imagine this is the situation: for some of the pre-Unity stuff, they don't have digital files of the original comic, so they've had to scan the original comics, and since you can't reprint from that scan (as it would result in a moire pattern), they've had to remove the color and then have it recolored. (I used to work for a small comic-coloring company that did the same for Acclaim's re-released Classics Illustrated books.) The problem with removing the color is where the color is dark, it's going to scan in as part of the black channel, so removing that is going to take precision work, or the quality of the line art is going to suffer. As an example, I pulled out my copy of the Harbinger HC for reference. Take a look at page 117, and the same page from the original (I referred to the original TPB for the same page at the end of Harbinger 4.) Especially in dark areas (e.g. Kris's hair) a lot of the fine lines are missing. To restore the quality of the original linework would require manhours that would significantly increase the cost of the HC. The upside is that since it has to be recolored, there is a noticeable difference in that (e.g. Flamingo's fire effect on 116). If there is no change in the art for later books, I imagine that's because they have the digital files for those and don't have to clean anything up.

Well, I only call it "improved" art because I personally like it and the idea was to give it a fresh look. I'm not going to lie and say that I understand much of what you were talking about, but is this to say that since Bloodshot didn't have a recolor that they have either the original art or a digital scan of the original art? That seems like it would be really difficult to track down for all of the issues.

The idea behind my comment on the "improved" art is that I felt like at least they put a little work into it, so it felt like it was worth the $25. Now, it's just like they're scanning in some images, tossing in a short story, and hitting print; but they still want you to pay $25 for it. I mean, if people are will to pay, good for them and they should keep doing it. I just wish there was more in it to justify the cost.

[leonmallett]

Shadowman seems a no-brainer, but as a big fan of the Bob Hall run in particular, the situation is that unlike other runs the quality arguably improves in later issues (later collections), when Hall (and Ryder on inks) hit their stride, and if a new audience is to 'buy into' these masters collections, then there may not be enough to motivate customers unfamiliar with the character/run to try a second masters book if that makes sense.

[Savant]

The idea behind my comment on the "improved" art is that I felt like at least they put a little work into it, so it felt like it was worth the $25. Now, it's just like they're scanning in some images, tossing in a short story, and hitting print; but they still want you to pay $25 for it. I mean, if people are will to pay, good for them and they should keep doing it. I just wish there was more in it to justify the cost.

The HC collections are worth it for people who want these runs in a hardcover format. Also, whether they do anything with the art or not, the paper quality is better than with the original single issues.

I bought the X-O & Harbinger HCs, as the back-issues were a little expensive and the HCs were a better quality version (For the most part, as I didn't realize the line-work suffered as I didn't have access to the original issues).

It would be great if they're ever able to release HCs of Solar and Magnus, but I tracked down the back-issues long ago after finding out it's unlikely HCs of those two titles' early runs likely will never see print.

[IanAlexavier]

Find some floppy copies that arent CGC worthy and make your own hardcover.. it costs about the same.

Do the new stories really add that much? Not to me.


VEI will only produce these if it would be beneficial someway to the company continuing to do well. They may do it if they broke even and encouraged other sales. Im not sure if they are willing to put money towards stories/characters that arent currently being produced in monthlies.

[BugsySig]

Find some floppy copies that arent CGC worthy and make your own hardcover.. it costs about the same.

Do the new stories really add that much? Not to me.


VEI will only produce these if it would be beneficial someway to the company continuing to do well. They may do it if they broke even and encouraged other sales. Im not sure if they are willing to put money towards stories/characters that arent currently being produced in monthlies.

I agree, and I think their plan should be to release one around the same time as a new series is starting. So the next one should be Shadowman. The new series should boost interest in the original stuff and sell the trades while also maybe drawing in some old fans to the new VALIANT.

I understand the point about the price compared to buying floppies, but to me that idea never even occurred. And FWIW, for what it would cost me to go around to stores, find all the copies I want, etc...it's worth the price to have them all in one book with a new story. Same goes for using the Internet, eBay, etc. This way it's just one click to order through DCBS (where it was on sale anyway).

I will end up getting all of these HCs because i dont have a large collecton of VH1 and the ease to acquire them. Call me lazy, but it works for me, and I bet there are a lot of people who feel the same way.

[betterthanezra]

Shadowman seems like the obvious choice and having Bob Hall do something NEW with it

-Brian

[kjjohanson]

Well, I only call it "improved" art because I personally like it and the idea was to give it a fresh look. I'm not going to lie and say that I understand much of what you were talking about, but is this to say that since Bloodshot didn't have a recolor that they have either the original art or a digital scan of the original art? That seems like it would be really difficult to track down for all of the issues.

First, I should reiterate that my comments were mostly speculation. Since I've worked in the field I'm applying my knowledge to the information being presented. I'm not suggesting that they have the original art. (That would be highly unlikely.) But if you're noticing no difference between the Bloodshot HC art and the original issues, they may have digital files with the original linework and color art. I worked in comic coloring starting in 1996, at which time we were scanning in the BW linework and creating separate digital files for the color. Everything was saved electronically. I imagine some time between the launch of Valiant (1991) and then most comic companies made the move to do the same. It wouldn't surprise me if whatever portion of the original Valiant Universe books that were saved digitally were a part of the purchase when Valiant Entertainment bought the rights. The only question would be when Voyager switched over to that method. Bloodshot was launched in early 1994, so we can assume it was some time before then.

The idea behind my comment on the "improved" art is that I felt like at least they put a little work into it, so it felt like it was worth the $25. Now, it's just like they're scanning in some images, tossing in a short story, and hitting print; but they still want you to pay $25 for it. I mean, if people are will to pay, good for them and they should keep doing it. I just wish there was more in it to justify the cost.

For the books that they don't have digital files for, there's a lot more work involved. It's much more work that simply scanning them in and hitting print. The art has to be cleaned up and then re-colored. And it's important to point out that a good chunk of the price of the book goes into the physical production, which is going to be pricey regardless of what's printed on the pages.

I bought the X-O & Harbinger HCs, as the back-issues were a little expensive and the HCs were a better quality version (For the most part, as I didn't realize the line-work suffered as I didn't have access to the original issues).

If I get the chance tomorrow, I'll scan samples of the original and the recolored and show you what I mean.

[IanAlexavier]

Shadowman seems like the obvious choice and having Bob Hall do something NEW with it

-Brian

They really should allow Mr. Hall to finish telling his tale...

[Brother Darque]

could they work out an agreement that would let them publish Solar, Magnus & Turok as hard covers?

[kjjohanson]

could they work out an agreement that would let them publish Solar, Magnus & Turok as hard covers?

This was discussed at the panel at NYCC (well, including those characters in a Unity re-print, anyway). It was clear from my POV that this is something that they want to do, and something that they are working to make happen, but not something that they can discuss openly right now (probably because it's an ongoing business negotiation).

[BugsySig]

could they work out an agreement that would let them publish Solar, Magnus & Turok as hard covers?

This was discussed at the panel at NYCC (well, including those characters in a Unity re-print, anyway). It was clear from my POV that this is something that they want to do, and something that they are working to make happen, but not something that they can discuss openly right now (probably because it's an ongoing business negotiation).

I hope they can at least work something out to reprint the early VH1 runs and Unity. Maybe if they are able to work out a good deal, it will open the door to other ventures in the future with them.

[DK2]

could they work out an agreement that would let them publish Solar, Magnus & Turok as hard covers?

This was discussed at the panel at NYCC (well, including those characters in a Unity re-print, anyway). It was clear from my POV that this is something that they want to do, and something that they are working to make happen, but not something that they can discuss openly right now (probably because it's an ongoing business negotiation).

I hope they can at least work something out to reprint the early VH1 runs and Unity. Maybe if they are able to work out a good deal, it will open the door to other ventures in the future with them.

Yeah it'd be good if they can at the very least reprint the Gold Key characters' Valiant material if no other reason than to show that stuff again. I'd love to see VH1 Magnus and Solar and Turok stuff in HC's. Magnus they should at least cover the #0-8 again (maybe up to Jim Shooters run only up to #15?). I never understood why the old Valiant trades didn't put the #0's of Harbinger (other than including as a comic) and Magnus #0 weren't put into the trades. Always made it seem like they didn't count in the overall story somewhat. Solar #1-10 and put the #0 Alpha & Omega before or after the main story. I don't know about Turok as I've never read it. What should Valiant cover in that as a HC? It'd be consistent anyway with and whenever a Unity book HC comes along from them. I'd think it'd be neat if Unity was just one book. Why bother with 2 separate HC's? Its funny that they're only thinking of around the Unity era for the reprint material. Just the best of Valiant? What no Birthquake or Chaos Effect? As long as they want to or are willing to do these is fine by me. I know I could probably get the actual comics for cheap but I no longer am in the mood or have the time to look for back issues anymore. I'm actually preferring compilations these days.

[Aram]

The idea behind my comment on the "improved" art is that I felt like at least they put a little work into it, so it felt like it was worth the $25. Now, it's just like they're scanning in some images, tossing in a short story, and hitting print; but they still want you to pay $25 for it. I mean, if people are will to pay, good for them and they should keep doing it. I just wish there was more in it to justify the cost.

The HC collections are worth it for people who want these runs in a hardcover format. Also, whether they do anything with the art or not, the paper quality is better than with the original single issues.

I bought the X-O & Harbinger HCs, as the back-issues were a little expensive and the HCs were a better quality version (For the most part, as I didn't realize the line-work suffered as I didn't have access to the original issues).

It would be great if they're ever able to release HCs of Solar and Magnus, but I tracked down the back-issues long ago after finding out it's unlikely HCs of those two titles' early runs likely will never see print.

This.

[Aram]

Well, I only call it "improved" art because I personally like it and the idea was to give it a fresh look. I'm not going to lie and say that I understand much of what you were talking about, but is this to say that since Bloodshot didn't have a recolor that they have either the original art or a digital scan of the original art? That seems like it would be really difficult to track down for all of the issues.

First, I should reiterate that my comments were mostly speculation. Since I've worked in the field I'm applying my knowledge to the information being presented. I'm not suggesting that they have the original art. (That would be highly unlikely.) But if you're noticing no difference between the Bloodshot HC art and the original issues, they may have digital files with the original linework and color art. I worked in comic coloring starting in 1996, at which time we were scanning in the BW linework and creating separate digital files for the color. Everything was saved electronically. I imagine some time between the launch of Valiant (1991) and then most comic companies made the move to do the same. It wouldn't surprise me if whatever portion of the original Valiant Universe books that were saved digitally were a part of the purchase when Valiant Entertainment bought the rights. The only question would be when Voyager switched over to that method. Bloodshot was launched in early 1994, so we can assume it was some time before then.

The idea behind my comment on the "improved" art is that I felt like at least they put a little work into it, so it felt like it was worth the $25. Now, it's just like they're scanning in some images, tossing in a short story, and hitting print; but they still want you to pay $25 for it. I mean, if people are will to pay, good for them and they should keep doing it. I just wish there was more in it to justify the cost.

For the books that they don't have digital files for, there's a lot more work involved. It's much more work that simply scanning them in and hitting print. The art has to be cleaned up and then re-colored. And it's important to point out that a good chunk of the price of the book goes into the physical production, which is going to be pricey regardless of what's printed on the pages.

I bought the X-O & Harbinger HCs, as the back-issues were a little expensive and the HCs were a better quality version (For the most part, as I didn't realize the line-work suffered as I didn't have access to the original issues).

If I get the chance tomorrow, I'll scan samples of the original and the recolored and show you what I mean.

Photoshop is so advanced now that a person who knows what they are doing can do wonders on a page in 20 to 30 minutes just from a 600dpi scan off a yellowed page. This can increase the quality beyond the actual original comic and make it ready for print in a reasonable amount of man hours.

[SJS4]

IMHO Eternal Warrior #1-7 would make a good collection. I wouldn't add #8 as that was really more of an A&A story.

#1-2 include origin of Eternal brothers plus Unity. #3 is a good follow-up epilogue to Unity, 4 and 5 introduce the Immortal Enemy and Bloodshot, 6 & 7 were the great BWS issues with Buck and Master Darque.