Collecting Modern Comics

[CJAotssE]

I read an interesting piece recently about the merits of collecting the modern comics because in general they have such small print runs compared to many years ago. Beyond the top twenty, a lot of very good comics are printed with runs under 50,000, which is very small compared to 30-40 years ago.

If that is so, in a few years so many of these issues will be in such small supply that if the demand is there either by the characters or creators gaining in value they will be a great investment.

Why go to all the expense of paying through the nose for old issues that have already gone up in value when the new ones can be had for so little in comparison.

Even some of the hardcovers and trades are out of print and popular with increased prices.

Peter.

[whetteon]

I read an interesting piece recently about the merits of collecting the modern comics because in general they have such small print runs compared to many years ago. Beyond the top twenty, a lot of very good comics are printed with runs under 50,000, which is very small compared to 30-40 years ago.

If that is so, in a few years so many of these issues will be in such small supply that if the demand is there either by the characters or creators gaining in value they will be a great investment.

Why go to all the expense of paying through the nose for old issues that have already gone up in value when the new ones can be had for so little in comparison.

Even some of the hardcovers and trades are out of print and popular with increased prices.

Peter.

I'd agree with this statement and disagree at the same time. I think the POTENTIAL for a good investment can be found with some of these main stream low print run books of the late 90's (I assume that's what you’re talking about). Here is the other shoe to your theory. The collector base is also a LOT smaller then it was 40-50 years ago. The top selling books have a print run like 125,000 (Greg did a post on this somewhere). So that means a mainstream title currently has 125,000 fans interested in the book (not assuming over order or hype issues) and maybe half of those might want to buy back issues. Suddenly 50,000 doesn't look so small does it?

Also, ZWH correctly pointed out that if a book gets hot it instantly sells out not because it's so popular but because it has such a small print run. Now you can look at that and say, "that proves my point" but I choose to look at it like this; these books had a small print run before because their publisher thought that was the TOTAL amount of books they could sell to interested parties. Therefore even the comic distribution media realizes the fan base is slowly shrinking to a point of non-profitability.

If the hobby continues to grow like it's doing right now then your statement is 100% correct. Unfortunately it has some major huddles to overcome including a dying fan base and loosing out to video games and DVD rentals which provides a lengthier amount of entertainment value for a lesser cost.

My advice is to continue collecting these low print run books IF the character or series is one you would have bought anyway. So don't buy past late 90 Iron Man books if you never cared for the character but DO buy past 90 Spidey books if you were a big fan of Peter Parker's zany adventures. Do you see my point?

[CJAotssE]

I was thinking today's titles rather than the 90's, some issues selling less than 50,000: Knights 4, New Thunderbolts, Runaways, Punisher, Black Panther, Fantastic Four.

The number of collectors I am sure are much higher than the total for the best-selling book. Not everyone buys every title and judging by any thread that asks what is bought monthly most respondents seem to pick very few titles, and also a wide range of titles ( I personally don't buy any DC for instance, but someone is). There's no reason that there could be upwards of 400,000 collectors which then makes less than 50,000 a different proposition.

Peter.

[Peter Parker]

I read an interesting piece recently about the merits of collecting the modern comics because in general they have such small print runs compared to many years ago. Beyond the top twenty, a lot of very good comics are printed with runs under 50,000, which is very small compared to 30-40 years ago.

If that is so, in a few years so many of these issues will be in such small supply that if the demand is there either by the characters or creators gaining in value they will be a great investment.

Why go to all the expense of paying through the nose for old issues that have already gone up in value when the new ones can be had for so little in comparison.

Even some of the hardcovers and trades are out of print and popular with increased prices.

Peter.

Well, i'm sorry to have to disagree with you both on this topic

Modern books are NOT good "investments" (real estate, bonds, some hedge funds) but Comic books? not! If one was to pour through the percentage% of comic books that are actually valued, as compared to the total number of comics printed...it would scare you silly how many are worthless. I'd venture to say 85% of ALL the Comic Books ever printed are just that, worthless. Furthermore, as a personal example; roughly 75% of ALL the valuable books in MY entire collection, were purchased with ZERO idea of future value...I simply bought what I liked, and preserved them as best I could

Modern books (although better than their predecessors in many ways) have one MAJOR long term problem with regards to "investment value" and that is condition In 20 years from now, 95% of ANY modern book printed will STILL be in NM+ range, and many more at NM/M grades. Will certain books still garner demand and higher prices paid? of course...but they will be few and far between, high grade commonality will be certain.

The archival storage that is practiced by almost EVERY serious collector these days, guarantees a plethora of high grade copies available for future purchase. I'm sorry, but comparing Modern books to Golden Age, Silver Age, or even Bronze Age "keys" is ridiculous

If you want TRUE "investment" grade Comic Books to buy? then those "older" books are the closest "guarantee" you have my friends

Just my two cents...

[Chuck]

I'd have to agree with Pete on this.

Only a handfull of mordern books are worth anything. The majority of common issues across the board are in private collections/storage in a bag and aboard. Since the early 80's comics have been shown respect (in terms of storage) thier earlier counter parts (Bronze and below) nerver recieved.

Comics are like fine wine (not really but...); the older the bettter

[Shakespeare]

n 20 years from now, 95% of ANY modern book printed will STILL be in NM+ range

Couldn't let Peter speak up without at least one little argument . While there are certainly a high number of NM copies out there, I think it's grossly overstated. Most never even get to the shelf in NM or better.

But as much as I hate to admit it, Golden is where it's at. After all, I'd rather have a $1000 book go up 10% than to have a $5.00 book go up 200%.

And with moderns, all of these comic book movies are going gangbusters and comic readership doesn't change much. 20 million people will devote two hours to X-Men, but only 100,000 will follow it month to month.

Shakes

[Chuck]

Comic book collectors/readers are a dying breed.

Everyone is into video games these days.

PS2, X-BOX, Game Cube, and the next generation DVD formatted systems. :x

[tcolli]

Golden and Silver is definately where any financial gain is but you can still get the $3 issue that jumps to $20 for a month and then drops. Kinda like high risk stocks, just in smaller terms.

[whetteon]

n 20 years from now, 95% of ANY modern book printed will STILL be in NM+ range

But as much as I hate to admit it, Golden is where it's at. After all, I'd rather have a $1000 book go up 10% than to have a $5.00 book go up 200%.

Shakes

Lots of store owners and serious comic collectors business have been made by purchasing a box of comics at 50 cents per book and then turning around and selling them for $1.25 on eBay or in their store. So in reality it would be WISER to buy those $5.00 books and flip them for $6 then buying that $1000 book and trying to flip it for $1100.

First, not many people hesitate to spend an extra dollar on something that they wanted anyway and secondly, those same people WILL hesitate to pay a grand on something like a comic book without being a very serious collector (hell, even I don't spend that much on one book). You just have a bigger market to sell to with those dollar books. True that some dollar books won't sell for any price but if you know what your doing you charge the appropriate fee on the rest to cover that cost.

Flying_Donut (Zwh's best friend) actually made some good money flipping cheap dollar books.

[whetteon]

Comic book collectors/readers are a dying breed.

Everyone is into video games these days.

PS2, X-BOX, Game Cube, and the next generation DVD formatted systems. :x

We are a dying breed of READERS but I'm one of those people who think that even if the comic book market completely collapsed today, Golden, Silver and Bronze age books will be collected as pieces of ART (or as today’s art galleries like to call it, pop culture). It's like how almost no one pays an artist to do a self portrait of themselves anymore but past self portraits by certain artist are worth millions. Of course this is just my opinion but I hold that opinion pretty strongly.

[tcolli]

Ok, I am going to go off topic and be devil's advocate. Can true readers support CGC? Once the book is slabbed it really can't be read unless it is opened. Kind of ruins the point of a book to be slabbed.


Don't be mad at the question, it is after all only a question.

[Shakespeare]

Everyone is into video games these days.

PS2, X-BOX, Game Cube, and the next generation DVD formatted systems

Seems to me that the thing to invest in would be rare Atari games, early Final Fantasy, and AOL discs!

(however, there's no interest in much vinyl or laserdiscs)

[Peter Parker]

Ok, I am going to go off topic and be devil's advocate. Can true readers support CGC? Once the book is slabbed it really can't be read unless it is opened. Kind of ruins the point of a book to be slabbed.


Don't be mad at the question, it is after all only a question.

Well...just around how many times do I need to read the book before it's ok to slab it?...once? twice? three times a...oops, sorry, back on track...I mean, this point of view baffles me to no end I've read for example say; Amazing Spider-Man# 122 roughly..ohhhhhh, lets say 10 times, I also have a reading copy of the book, AND the Marvel Tales reprint of said tale. So, I should crack out my NM/M CGC 9.8 copy because why exactly?..to READ it? been there done that...get my drift dude

Once again, slabbed Comic books are HIGH GRADE options for collectors that WANT HG copies of particular books. All of us "slab dudes" have READ...upteen times, ALL the books we eventually buy, or submit for slabs ...that should actually be quite easy to understand

[Ricomortis]

I read an interesting piece recently about the merits of collecting the modern comics because in general they have such small print runs compared to many years ago. Beyond the top twenty, a lot of very good comics are printed with runs under 50,000, which is very small compared to 30-40 years ago.

If that is so, in a few years so many of these issues will be in such small supply that if the demand is there either by the characters or creators gaining in value they will be a great investment.

Why go to all the expense of paying through the nose for old issues that have already gone up in value when the new ones can be had for so little in comparison.

Even some of the hardcovers and trades are out of print and popular with increased prices.

Peter.

Well, i'm sorry to have to disagree with you both on this topic

Modern books are NOT good "investments" (real estate, bonds, some hedge funds) but Comic books? not! If one was to pour through the percentage% of comic books that are actually valued, as compared to the total number of comics printed...it would scare you silly how many are worthless. I'd venture to say 85% of ALL the Comic Books ever printed are just that, worthless. Furthermore, as a personal example; roughly 75% of ALL the valuable books in MY entire collection, were purchased with ZERO idea of future value...I simply bought what I liked, and preserved them as best I could

Modern books (although better than their predecessors in many ways) have one MAJOR long term problem with regards to "investment value" and that is condition In 20 years from now, 95% of ANY modern book printed will STILL be in NM+ range, and many more at NM/M grades. Will certain books still garner demand and higher prices paid? of course...but they will be few and far between, high grade commonality will be certain.

The archival storage that is practiced by almost EVERY serious collector these days, guarantees a plethora of high grade copies available for future purchase. I'm sorry, but comparing Modern books to Golden Age, Silver Age, or even Bronze Age "keys" is ridiculous

If you want TRUE "investment" grade Comic Books to buy? then those "older" books are the closest "guarantee" you have my friends

Just my two cents...

Peter..

I agree mostly... except...

that EVERY comic I go to to buy at the LCS is damaged. Spine stress or something. I have living hell trying to find a NM to NM/M copy of the stuff I collect. That is straight out of the box... that isn't counting after people get their grubby little hand on them.

Yea there will be a bunch in 9.8 compared to the old stuff... but I didn't know he was comparing to the old stuff. I thought he was saying as a good investment period. There may be a bunch in good shape but not enough to stop the price from going 200-500% over cover in NM/M condition in the future. Thats a pretty good return...seeing how the average in the stock market is 7 years for a 100% return.(and that is if you know what you are doing)

Just a thought... and an opinion.

Rico

[GGSAE]

I agree mostly... except...
Thats a pretty good return...seeing how the average in the stock market is 7 years for a 100% return.(and that is if you know what you are doing)

Rico

7 years ago, eh? So let's say you bought in 98, a wide basket of stocks, hell let's make it an etf to get the whole equity market...

(just having some fun killer)

[X-O HoboJoe]

How does the "rule of 7" stack up to HG GA, SA or BA keys? This would be veddy interrrresting to see a side-by-side, esp. since I got zero idea about the stock market.

[whetteon]

How does the "rule of 7" stack up to HG GA, SA or BA keys? This would be veddy interrrresting to see a side-by-side, esp. since I got zero idea about the stock market.

In your Overstreet Buyers Guide you should be able to find an article comparing the top stocks to the top comics done by Metroplis Comics. I believe the comics were winning.

[Ricomortis]

I agree mostly... except...
Thats a pretty good return...seeing how the average in the stock market is 7 years for a 100% return.(and that is if you know what you are doing)

Rico

7 years ago, eh? So let's say you bought in 98, a wide basket of stocks, hell let's make it an etf to get the whole equity market...

(just having some fun killer)

thats pretty good.... but you know what I meant GG.

Average over the Markets History it takes 7 years to double your money.

Rico

[X-O HoboJoe]

How does the "rule of 7" stack up to HG GA, SA or BA keys? This would be veddy interrrresting to see a side-by-side, esp. since I got zero idea about the stock market.

In your Overstreet Buyers Guide you should be able to find an article comparing the top stocks to the top comics done by Metroplis Comics. I believe the comics were winning.

[GGSAE]

I agree mostly... except...
Thats a pretty good return...seeing how the average in the stock market is 7 years for a 100% return.(and that is if you know what you are doing)

Rico

7 years ago, eh? So let's say you bought in 98, a wide basket of stocks, hell let's make it an etf to get the whole equity market...

(just having some fun killer)

thats pretty good.... but you know what I meant GG.

Average over the Markets History it takes 7 years to double your money.

Rico

I know, i know, just being a jackass...indices go up on average 7% a year, but there's some stocks that never regain previous highs...

[myron]

I agree mostly... except...
Thats a pretty good return...seeing how the average in the stock market is 7 years for a 100% return.(and that is if you know what you are doing)

Rico

7 years ago, eh? So let's say you bought in 98, a wide basket of stocks, hell let's make it an etf to get the whole equity market...

(just having some fun killer)

thats pretty good.... but you know what I meant GG.

Average over the Markets History it takes 7 years to double your money.

Rico

uhh...that's a 10% return boys...not a 100%

[Peter Parker]

I read an interesting piece recently about the merits of collecting the modern comics because in general they have such small print runs compared to many years ago. Beyond the top twenty, a lot of very good comics are printed with runs under 50,000, which is very small compared to 30-40 years ago.

If that is so, in a few years so many of these issues will be in such small supply that if the demand is there either by the characters or creators gaining in value they will be a great investment.

Why go to all the expense of paying through the nose for old issues that have already gone up in value when the new ones can be had for so little in comparison.

Even some of the hardcovers and trades are out of print and popular with increased prices.

Peter.

Well, i'm sorry to have to disagree with you both on this topic

Modern books are NOT good "investments" (real estate, bonds, some hedge funds) but Comic books? not! If one was to pour through the percentage% of comic books that are actually valued, as compared to the total number of comics printed...it would scare you silly how many are worthless. I'd venture to say 85% of ALL the Comic Books ever printed are just that, worthless. Furthermore, as a personal example; roughly 75% of ALL the valuable books in MY entire collection, were purchased with ZERO idea of future value...I simply bought what I liked, and preserved them as best I could

Modern books (although better than their predecessors in many ways) have one MAJOR long term problem with regards to "investment value" and that is condition In 20 years from now, 95% of ANY modern book printed will STILL be in NM+ range, and many more at NM/M grades. Will certain books still garner demand and higher prices paid? of course...but they will be few and far between, high grade commonality will be certain.

The archival storage that is practiced by almost EVERY serious collector these days, guarantees a plethora of high grade copies available for future purchase. I'm sorry, but comparing Modern books to Golden Age, Silver Age, or even Bronze Age "keys" is ridiculous

If you want TRUE "investment" grade Comic Books to buy? then those "older" books are the closest "guarantee" you have my friends

Just my two cents...

Peter..

I agree mostly... except...

that EVERY comic I go to to buy at the LCS is damaged. Spine stress or something. I have living hell trying to find a NM to NM/M copy of the stuff I collect. That is straight out of the box... that isn't counting after people get their grubby little hand on them.

Yea there will be a bunch in 9.8 compared to the old stuff... but I didn't know he was comparing to the old stuff. I thought he was saying as a good investment period. There may be a bunch in good shape but not enough to stop the price from going 200-500% over cover in NM/M condition in the future. Thats a pretty good return...seeing how the average in the stock market is 7 years for a 100% return.(and that is if you know what you are doing)

Just a thought... and an opinion.

Rico

Rico...

You're not the 1st individual to relay this type of information to me, but i'm flummoxed by it

I still go every week when time permits, to various Comic Book locations in Manhattan for my "new" books, and 100% of the time I come out with solid NM+ range books

Perhaps its a geographical problem? Perhaps living in NY gives me more mass options for finding such copies???, or perhaps its simply luck?.

Whatever it may be, again, I personally have not bought a Modern Comic book in this city in the last 20 years that wasn't a NM to NM+ range book at least...obviously, its not as easy for others as you're pointing out. But as to why this is? that is a complete mystery to me

[400yrs]

I have the same problem in my area. I think it's a combination of travel and handling. Many have dented corners from shipping. The ones that don't are usually mishandled when bag and boarding them. They end up with those creases in the middle of the books like happens from turning the pages.

[X-O HoboJoe]

The only time I seem to have this trouble is when the LCS has a very small number of copies. Back in the day, the more total comics we got per week, the greater # of nm/nm+ books. There always seemed to be about the same # of books messed up in shipping (usually top and bottom of stacks) plus, any non-collector handling the books before they went on the shelves had to be stopped. Tig-ol-Bitty blonds are nice and they pull the fan-boys in, but they do NOT know how to handle a comic carefully. Anyway, on a big # ordered book, I rarely have trouble finding at least one nm/nm+ copy. I've always seen it as a function of the size of the comics store.

[whetteon]

I know a handful of stores also prescreen their own books now saving the minty ones for themselves for cgcing and leave the runt of the litter to their customer :x