If print run didn't matter...

greg · Post by **greg** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 11:25 am

Here's what I hope will be an interesting topic...

If print run didn't matter...
What books SHOULD be the most wanted book in the Valiant universe?

(You can base your decision on stories, artwork, characters, covers,
age of the book, artists, events, etc., but you have to forget the print run.)

Enjoy!

(I'll think about it and give my votes later...)

sandman · Post by **sandman** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 12:02 pm

My vote is for:

Harbinger 1-7 - I could relate to these comics so well as a teenager. How it would be cool to have "powers", but use them in less flashy (Not Superman pre-crisis type) ways. No juggling planets, but removing bullets and floating cars. Who wouldn't try and get the popular girl to like you using mind control, but then realizing how bad that was. Then seeing the girl still like you. To see superheroes who get hurt and need bandages at the end of #4 and see their friend die #6. To see a "fat" girl be a superhero and speak her mind and be respected. They seemed more real than any other comic I ever found.

Solar 1-10 would be next - How do you deal with being a God? Groundbreaking writing.

wrunow · Post by **wrunow** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 12:07 pm

I think Solar 10 because I feel it wrapped up the story arc which contained (in my opinion) the best writing by Jim Shooter of the Pre-unity period. Also the art in 1-10 by BWS was incredible as he wasn't trying draw 4 differently monthly books at that time. Plus it had the cool poster in it with all the posters from each issue that made one big picture.

Shakespeare · Post by **Shakespeare** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 1:18 pm

I third Solar #10. Unique cover or not, the event portrayed created the Valiant Universe. Plus it's got Gilad's first appearance

Sector3600 · Post by **Sector3600** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 1:24 pm

Eternal Warrior #4-8 (established Gilad/Geomancy, the Immortal Enemy and Bloodshot)

Archer & Armstrong #8-12 (great story telling and seeing A&A reaction to Solar was a hoot)

Secret Weapons #11-18 (Almost was better than the Armorine concept; could have been a strong contender if not over produced)

Solar #21-27 (Another fine example of storytelling and to have a Master Darque/Solar confrontation!)

x-omatic · Post by **x-omatic** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 1:48 pm

Rai #0.

I think it is one of, if not the, most important book in Valiant history.

Rai-fan · Post by **Rai-fan** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 2:09 pm

1) Unity 0--tied every title together for the first time as well as the disparate universes: 1992 & 4001. Also (along with Solar 10) put Valiant on the map & made it mainstream

2) Rai 0--amazing amounts of info re. the future packed into scant pages. Stands the test of time, esp. as compared to Marvel recent "The End" minis.

3) Magnus 0--Origin of Valiant's first (& arguably flagship) character. Great marketing concept as a coupon redemption book. I know Magnus 1 came first, but this is _the_ Valiant key, far more important than Harbinger 0 or any gold book.

DawgPhan · Post by **DawgPhan** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 2:34 pm

x-omatic wrote:Rai #0.

I think it is one of, if not the, most important book in Valiant history.

I have to agree...this is the most key book...plus it has the most awesome of covers...

Sector3600 · Post by **Sector3600** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 2:39 pm

Rai-fan wrote:1) Unity 0--tied every title together for the first time as well as the disparate universes: 1992 & 4001. Also (along with Solar 10) put Valiant on the map & made it mainstream

2) Rai 0--amazing amounts of info re. the future packed into scant pages. Stands the test of time, esp. as compared to Marvel recent "The End" minis.

3) Magnus 0--Origin of Valiant's first (& arguably flagship) character. Great marketing concept as a coupon redemption book. I know Magnus 1 came first, but this is _the_ Valiant key, far more important than Harbinger 0 or any gold book.

Rai #0 was a nice "bridge" and cannon for every core title to have a "end" prior to Magnus's era.

I kind of thought that the Harbinger War should have been closer to what the Valiant Universe was shooting for earlier in their run!

I was glad to see Timewalker address part of the Harbinger War, but would have liked to see his 'fate'. Or was he struck in some time loop?!

I think Valiant missed out on a opportunity to turn Harbinger & H.A.R.D. Corps into a Harbinger War series

The one thing that bothered me was the Visitor and his apparent potential to have changed the Rai #0 events. It was if the Acclaim/Valiant was trying to break away from the Rai #0 'mold'

kryptonitecomics · Post by **kryptonitecomics** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 3:08 pm

I would still pick up all of the pre-unity and Unity issues since I loved the art and story archs!!!

Zero · Post by **Zero** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 4:50 pm

My vote goes to Harbinger 25. Great battle scene!! How long did we wait to see a true fight between Sting & Harada?

On the flipside... (not to get too far off topic...) My vote for least important book(s) if print run is unimportant goes to Rai 3-4. I personally don't see why they are so sought after now. Nothing outstanding happens in them. No fancy art (St. Pierre). Why are they so "important" if not for print run? ...& even that isn't nearly as small as the later issues. I don't see it. ~Erskine

Sector3600 · Post by **Sector3600** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 5:02 pm

Erskine71 wrote:My vote goes to Harbinger 25. Great battle scene!! How long did we wait to see a true fight between Sting & Harada?

On the flipside... (not to get too far off topic...) My vote for least important book(s) if print run is unimportant goes to Rai 3-4. I personally don't see why they are so sought after now. Nothing outstanding happens in them. No fancy art (St. Pierre). Why are they so "important" if not for print run? ...& even that isn't nearly as small as the later issues. I don't see it. ~Erskine

I have to agree, not much happened in those issues.

myron · Post by **myron** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 5:30 pm

Erskine71 wrote:My vote goes to Harbinger 25. Great battle scene!! How long did we wait to see a true fight between Sting & Harada?

On the flipside... (not to get too far off topic...) My vote for least important book(s) if print run is unimportant goes to Rai 3-4. I personally don't see why they are so sought after now. Nothing outstanding happens in them. No fancy art (St. Pierre). Why are they so "important" if not for print run? ...& even that isn't nearly as small as the later issues. I don't see it. ~Erskine

agree with both points...but harb 25 may as well have been the last harbinger issue as well...serious death throws after that...

Brother J · Post by **Brother J** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 6:15 pm

To pick one that hasn't been mentioned, I'll go with the Second Life of Dr. Mirage, at least the issues that Bernard Chang did. I really thought the art in that book was fantastic, and the writing was generally pretty good. It's more of a soap opera feel, but it was also a lot of fun.

Of course, most of the pre-Unity books deserve to be mentioned, as Magnus, Solar, Harbinger and X-O were great books in those days. The Unity storyline is the ultimate accomplishment by Valiant.

screamingdc · Post by **screamingdc** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 8:40 pm

Harbinger #25 was my personal favorite for a long time... you could almost feel Sting's emotions as he battles Harada.

Rai #0 is the obvious choice as top dog though because as a Valiant book, it gives you insight into just about every character. it kinda kills some suspense in other books as you know if Bloodshot or Archer is caught in some deathtrap, they'll survive because it pretty much chronicles what happens to every hero. still, as an informative book, it stands heads and shoulders above the rest.

Unity #0-#18 - only because it was awesome how they all told the overall story, but each title had shown you a different perspective on the whole thing. As a company crossover, this blows Chaos Effect away.

Solar #1-#10 - for all the reasons mentioned above. Solar was arguably the most important character in the VH1 universe.

blazeknight · Post by **blazeknight** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 10:34 pm

simply because it signified the end of valiant as a great universe. After they changed harbinger to the crap that came out after #25, Valiant was done

Sector3600 · Post by **Sector3600** » Fri Apr 16, 2004 7:42 am

I have to promote Harbinger #26-41, for the sheer fact that Zephyr is key to Rai #0 - she forms the main Harbinger Resistance.

I think people, in Harbinger or the Valiant Universe & readers didn't like the fact she was a dumpling and considered unattractive. But she was under-rated, becuase she end up leading the biggest resistance to Harada's forces. Harada must have thought he had her under his thumb

I loved the direction to show how she became the resistance leader when Sting & the others 'disappeared'.

Maybe the stories could have been better and maybe run for a year then bringing back other of the 'original' Harbingers one by one.

I really wanted Valiant/Acclaim to have merged Harbinger & H.A.R.D. Corps (and later the Visitor) in one series called 'Harbinger Wars'.

Did anyone, besides me, enjoyed the Time Wallker 'Harbinger War' issues

graybola · Post by **graybola** » Fri Apr 16, 2004 8:58 am

I never had anything against Zephyr being fat. In my opinion, Pete was the series. Any other member of the team could be replaced, but him. With his omega powers he was WAY out of anyone else besides HArada's league. Since he could also activate harbinger powers he could eventually have replaced the team.
I do agree that Zephyr is important to the future, but I would have prefered something like Secrets of the Valiant Universe to explain how she matured.

Sector3600 · Post by **Sector3600** » Fri Apr 16, 2004 9:10 am

graybola wrote:I never had anything against Zephyr being fat.

I don't think I say you believed that, but I was refering to others at the time in the comic stores I use to work in and on other comic message boards.

Sector3600 · Post by **Sector3600** » Fri Apr 16, 2004 9:17 am

graybola wrote:In my opinion, Pete was the series. Any other member of the team could be replaced, but him. With his omega powers he was WAY out of anyone else besides HArada's league. Since he could also activate harbinger powers he could eventually have replaced the team.
I do agree that Zephyr is important to the future, but I would have prefered something like Secrets of the Valiant Universe to explain how she matured.

The problem with Sting was his potential to activate more Harbingers, if he did, couldn't his newly active forces beat Harada's sooner than later?

Then again Harada seemed to 'brainwash' his candiates before activating their Harbinger power to his cause. Readers saw what happened when Sting activated AX.

Maybe Pete is limited in power because of Harbinger #25, because in Rai #0 its not Pete that stops Harada in the end.

The really interesting part was with Screen, he appeared that he was part of another resistance or organization after Harada.

I really liked the Harbingers, maybe not really Kris besides her giving birth to Magnus

ZephyrWasHOT!! · Post by **ZephyrWasHOT!!** » Sat Apr 17, 2004 7:41 pm

If print runs were no object....let's see....

Unity. Period. The single most well-thought out, planned, and executed multi-book crossover in the history of comics. Everything pre-unity led up to it, and everything post-unity reverberated from it.

Not Secret Wars, I or II (another Shooter effort), not Crisis (though it comes close), not Legends (another contender, though) not Acts of Vengeance (please), not the X-Tinction Agenda, not any of the Marvel Annuals from 1988-1993-ish, not the Mutant Massacre, not Knightfall/quest/end, not Death of Superman, Not Fall of the Mutants, not Cataclysm, not No Man's Land, not Age of Apocalypse (although, again, compelling), none.

Not a one is as good as Unity, for many, many, many reasons.

If print runs were no object.

In my oh so humble opinion.

whetteon · Post by **whetteon** » Mon Apr 19, 2004 8:30 am

ZephyrWasHOT!! wrote:If print runs were no object....let's see....

Unity. Period. The single most well-thought out, planned, and executed multi-book crossover in the history of comics. Everything pre-unity led up to it, and everything post-unity reverberated from it.

Not Secret Wars, I or II (another Shooter effort), not Crisis (though it comes close), not Legends (another contender, though) not Acts of Vengeance (please), not the X-Tinction Agenda, not any of the Marvel Annuals from 1988-1993-ish, not the Mutant Massacre, not Knightfall/quest/end, not Death of Superman, Not Fall of the Mutants, not Cataclysm, not No Man's Land, not Age of Apocalypse (although, again, compelling), none.

Not a one is as good as Unity, for many, many, many reasons.

If print runs were no object.

In my oh so humble opinion.

Unity issues are godly! Well said Zephy brother!

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If print run didn't matter...

If print run didn't matter...

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