Jason Todd Robin

tcolli · Post by **tcolli** » Fri May 27, 2005 1:22 pm

I am just curious what readers of Batman though of them bringing back Jason Todd as a villian.

Todd Luck · Post by **Todd Luck** » Fri May 27, 2005 3:27 pm

When did this happen?

Todd Luck · Post by **Todd Luck** » Fri May 27, 2005 4:20 pm

Never mind I finally found answer myself.

http://www.newsarama.com/DC/Countdown_m ... _Hello.htm

I'm not going to vote because I haven't read the story. Maybe it's great and there's a real point to this. But I gotta say I can't believe art that looks like that was published in a Batman title (used to be only the Superman titles could look that bad

) and that costume Jason's wearing is awful (looks like Bucky in a trenchcoat). Looks like I'm not missing much.

Well atleast now I know they won't keep Ted Kord and Sue dead long

.

jordan silo · Post by **jordan silo** » Fri May 27, 2005 4:42 pm

I guess "DEATH" issues don't have any meaning anymore....

Todd Luck · Post by **Todd Luck** » Fri May 27, 2005 7:21 pm

I haven't read the story but is it possible that this is a Jason Todd from some alternate reality? In the article I linked to the writer did say his "return" would tie into Infinite Crisis somehow. It wouldn't be the first time Jason Todd was brought back from the dead for a sequel to Crisis....

Rai-fan · Post by **Rai-fan** » Fri May 27, 2005 7:22 pm

Okay, so I haven't read the new storyline either. But lemme' tell you, the Jim Lee-Jeph Loeb run (where they played like they brought him back 1.5 years ago) was one of the best Batman stories ever (yes, w/ DKR, year 1-3, Lonely Place, Laughing Fish, etc.)

I didn't see the "Jason" rebirth coming in "Hush" _at all_.

That said, it really wasn't him. Don't know what they've done this time around, but I'll be curious to read it later. Esp. because the original "Red Hood" story in the 1940s was the Joker. (His pre-Killing Joke origin).

Todd Luck · Post by **Todd Luck** » Fri May 27, 2005 10:54 pm

Rai-fan wrote:Okay, so I haven't read the new storyline either. But lemme' tell you, the Jim Lee-Jeph Loeb run (where they played like they brought him back 1.5 years ago) was one of the best Batman stories ever (yes, w/ DKR, year 1-3, Lonely Place, Laughing Fish, etc.)

I didn't see the "Jason" rebirth coming in "Hush" _at all_.

That said, it really wasn't him. Don't know what they've done this time around, but I'll be curious to read it later. Esp. because the original "Red Hood" story in the 1940s was the Joker. (His pre-Killing Joke origin).

Well the article I linked to pretty tells everything about the new Red Hood plotline if you want to spoil it for yourself.

And the Joker was the original Red Hood in the Killing Joke. However Moore left it open for other possibilities (the Joker's so nuts he remember his history differently from time to time) though I've gotten atleast two comics in the 90's that also mention Joker as the original Hood.

Chuck · Post by **Chuck** » Sat May 28, 2005 1:28 am

So far 100% says cheap gimmick

darkknight919 · Post by **darkknight919** » Sat May 28, 2005 2:45 am

Knightt_333 wrote:NOBODY dies for long any more... this just *SQUEE* me off.

Blue Beetle gets killed... big whoop, well he DID just find the 'beetle' before he got whacked, so he will be back. Just a matter of time.

The only 'rebirth' that I have even remotely liked or went along with was Green Lantern. These books are great but in an offshoot way still *SQUEE* me off.

Valiant... where dead is dead. God, I miss that.

Nuff Said.

jedimarley · Post by **jedimarley** » Sat May 28, 2005 5:59 am

death in the family was one of the best Bayman stories ever.
(IMO)
Now it means d!ck.

cheap gimmick

Todd Luck · Post by **Todd Luck** » Sat May 28, 2005 8:40 am

Is Death in the Family meaningless if he turns out to be from some alternate timeline?

Again, just speculation but, like I said, they've done this with Jason Todd in preparation for a Crisis "sequal" before. Of course, if they are just recycling the same ideas every ten years (which they did when I read DC

) Wally West better prepare to die...agian!

EDIT: Actually I'll take that back about Jason Todd making an appearance in Zero Hour (DC's first Crisis "sequal"). After a quick check on the net, I found out that he may have been only dead character not to have popped up during that crossover. The Robin I was thinking of was a time-displaced young Dick Grayson. So this trick may not have been specifically done with Jason Todd before...

Chuck · Post by **Chuck** » Sat May 28, 2005 6:26 pm

Todd Luck wrote:Is Death in the Family meaningless if he turns out to be from some alternate timeline?

Again, just speculation but, like I said, they've done this with Jason Todd in preparation for a Crisis "sequal" before. Of course, if they are just recycling the same ideas every ten years (which they did when I read DC ) Wally West better prepare to die...agian!

EDIT: Actually I'll take that back about Jason Todd making an appearance in Zero Hour (DC's first Crisis "sequal"). After a quick check on the net, I found out that he may have been only dead character not to have popped up during that crossover. The Robin I was thinking of was a time-displaced young Dick Grayson. So this trick may not have been specifically done with Jason Todd before...

If Red Hood (Jason) is from an alternate timeline, I would say the Death in the Family story line is still meaningful.

If you're talking about market value of Death in the Family, I think it will not affect the book value (drop in value). Besides, Batman 428 is impossible to find in 9.8 anyways. I've on seen about 4, 9.6 CGC'd, on Ebay in the past 6 months.

Daniel Jackson · Post by **Daniel Jackson** » Sat May 28, 2005 11:36 pm

Are they totally dry on ideas? Maybe DC's sales are slumping so they figure on milking the dead Robin story line a little more. Sounds like a bad soap opera to me.

Rai-fan · Post by **Rai-fan** » Sun May 29, 2005 1:23 pm

Grrr...

So I straight-up _lost_ my only 2 CGC books when I moved several states to go to grad school. They were Batman 426 (9.8) & 429 (9.8). Never got a chance to complete the set. Beautiful books.

whetteon · Post by **whetteon** » Sun May 29, 2005 1:56 pm

whetteon · Post by **whetteon** » Sun May 29, 2005 2:55 pm

Knightt_333 wrote:You know it is amazing how these silly little emoticons bump your post count. Not really adding anything to the value of this board but at least bumpin' the old post count.

Incredible really...

whetteon · Post by **whetteon** » Sun May 29, 2005 2:59 pm

Knightt_333 wrote:You know it is amazing how these silly little emoticons bump your post count. Not really adding anything to the value of this board but at least bumpin' the old post count.

Incredible really...

Jealousy or just reflecting on your high post count?

tcolli · Post by **tcolli** » Sun May 29, 2005 3:11 pm

, uh I would never do that.

<img src='http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_6_202v.gif' alt='Shy' border=0>

The Spider · Post by **The Spider** » Sun May 29, 2005 7:49 pm

Todd Luck wrote:I haven't read the story but is it possible that this is a Jason Todd from some alternate reality? In the article I linked to the writer did say his "return" would tie into Infinite Crisis somehow. It wouldn't be the first time Jason Todd was brought back from the dead for a sequel to Crisis....

Well consider this:

PRE-BATMAN YEAR ONE: When Jason Todd was introduced, he had an origin similar to Dick Grayson's in that he was a son of circus acrobats who were killed (although in this Jason's case, the killer was Killer Croc).

POST-BATMAN YEAR ONE: Jason was a street orphan who attempted to steal the Batmobile's tires.

Now, the reason I'm using "Year One" instead of Crisis is this: After Crisis, there were a few comics that came out before the likes of MAN OF STEEL and YEAR ONE.

One of them was Alan Moore's "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow," the final days of the Pre-MAN OF STEEL Superman. It references Supergirl's death, and had Krypto in it (both of which never existed as of MOS), and in SUPERMAN/BATMAN #18, they do reference the ending of "Whatever Happened..." which makes me wonder if the DCU was somehow changed to Pre-MOS state.

Other things to consider: Jason Todd wasn't killed in the Crisis (and I believe he might be the Robin who appeared in "Whatever Happened", since nobody thought about Tim Drake at the time and Dick Grayson was already Nightwing). Barry Allen and Supergirl were killed in Crisis, yet people in MAN OF STEEL and YEAR ONE-ish universe remember Barry dying, and not Supergirl.

Could the Red Hood be the Pre-Crisis Jason Todd?

The Spider · Post by **The Spider** » Sun May 29, 2005 7:59 pm

Also, funny thing I just noticed:

BATMAN #368: First appearance of Jason Todd in costume(Pre-Crisis/Year One, of course)

BATMAN #638: Jason Todd is the Red Hood.

jedimarley · Post by **jedimarley** » Sun May 29, 2005 8:03 pm

The Spider wrote:Also, funny thing I just noticed:

BATMAN #368: First appearance of Jason Todd in costume(Pre-Crisis/Year One, of course)

BATMAN #638: Jason Todd is the Red Hood.

DC isn't that clever.

The Spider · Post by **The Spider** » Sun May 29, 2005 9:11 pm

Actually, a correction: Batman #368 is the first time Jason wears the actual Robin outfit (he wore a variation a little earlier).

Chuck · Post by **Chuck** » Mon May 30, 2005 1:02 am

Rai-fan wrote:Grrr...

So I straight-up _lost_ my only 2 CGC books when I moved several states to go to grad school. They were Batman 426 (9.8) & 429 (9.8). Never got a chance to complete the set. Beautiful books.

Damn dude,

Those are pretty tough to come by

Man, a Death in the Family 9.8 CGC'd set would have been cool.

ZephyrWasHOT!! · Post by **ZephyrWasHOT!!** » Mon May 30, 2005 2:31 am

The Spider wrote:Actually, a correction: Batman #368 is the first time Jason wears the actual Robin outfit (he wore a variation a little earlier).

Uh uh. #366, Jason 'finds' Dick's costume in a closet (!!) and wears it to help Bats tackle Joker.

#368, Dick GIVES Jason his costume and of officially becomes Robin.

The pre-Year One and post-Year One fiddling with Jason Todd, SANS ANY EXPLANATION, also bothered me. Silly Denny O'Neil.

Yes, Doug Moench was lame writing Todd's origin as a nearly exact copy of Grayson's, which is why Tim Drake's is one of my favorite origins ever, but they didn't need to change it.

Lame.

ZephyrWasHOT!! · Post by **ZephyrWasHOT!!** » Mon May 30, 2005 2:34 am

Chuck wrote:
Rai-fan wrote:Grrr...

So I straight-up _lost_ my only 2 CGC books when I moved several states to go to grad school. They were Batman 426 (9.8) & 429 (9.8). Never got a chance to complete the set. Beautiful books.
Damn dude,

Those are pretty tough to come by

Man, a Death in the Family 9.8 CGC'd set would have been cool.

#426, 427, and 429 have much higher populations than 428, which I think has 2. Last one to sell, 428, was over $300.

Which is funny, cause I'd have pegged 426 and 427 as harder in 9.8, cause they're 'double' size.

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