Collector's Paradise Bloodshot #1 PACKAGE Deal

paradise · Post by **paradise** » Wed May 23, 2012 3:19 pm

hey everyone,

The Bloodshot deal is on, and is being offered first to those who did the XO and Harbinger deals. After a week or so, I will start contacting anyone who replies to this post with a wish to be part of it. Please read the email below carefully as the deal is not the same as the two before.

Sorry this is going to be a little longer than I expected.

I have been asked crazy amount of times if we were going to do a Bloodshot deal. I was waiting till the last minute, because I wanted to evaluate a couple of things. I wanted to ship out the X-O Manowar deal to all that ordered it so that I could judge the shipping methods, employee time spent packing/shipping, and a few other things to gauge future problems before I committed to another one of these. Now that it's all shipped out, I know a lot more about what it takes and what I NEED to do to make the next one, Bloodshot, work for both members of the site, and our store. We also paid attention to the market for the variant covers and had an eye opening experience that made me reevaluate whether it's the right thing financially to do what we did and at what price I would have to do it to still over a good deal but be competitive and not price myself out of the market. If you think the new pricing is too much, I understand and I am sorry, but I could not take another loss knowing the income I could make on these books.

With that in mind, I have to restructure the deal a little bit, and raise the price a bit. The employee time involved in shipping and sorting the books in order to make it right is a bit high and has cut into the model that I used when coming up with the price. In addition, the secondary market prices for the variants made it a losing proposition for me. Instead of offering to members, I could have put the books on eBay and made CONSIDERABLY more than I made (pretty much nothing) by selling the sets here on the site. I am willing to take some potential loss knowing I am helping members, but the difference is STAGGERING.

Also, we will be using standard USPS shipping instead of Priority Flat Rate boxes. Flat rate priority boxes are just too big for one set of 14-15 books, and they are a bit thin for my liking. We are going to purchase stronger shipping boxes that do a much better job, are thicker and are a perfect size. If someone buys a lot of books, we'll discuss different shipping method for that deal. So here is the deal:

You will get a set of all 4 covers:
Cover A - ARTURO LOZZI cover
Cover B - Pullbox Variant MICO SUAYAN cover
Cover C - 1:20 DAVID AJA cover (amazing)
Cover D - 1:50 ESAD RUBIC cover

In addition to that set, you will get a 10 pack of Bloodshot comics, split any way you want between Cover A and Cover B (let us know the split).

Each order in the Bloodshot Deal will receive a Valiant C2E2 Preview, signed by Robert Venditti AND Joshua Dysart.

The cost for this basic deal is $140 shipped. (Pre-order from DCBS is $100 for 1:50 and $50 for 1:20, and it's NOT guaranteed, we are giving you 14 more books for $10 less and free shipping)

If you are getting the deal, you can then add two other items:
1. You can add ADDITIONAL 1:20 Aja Variants at $25 each
2. You can add ADDITIONAL 10 packs of reg. covers at $30 each

Please post below if you want to participate, and I will contact you AFTER I have given members of the first two buys some time to place their orders.

BloodShot · Post by **BloodShot** » Wed May 23, 2012 4:35 pm

Ed,

You already know I'm ALL-in on this'n

!!

jaden_sai · Post by **jaden_sai** » Wed May 23, 2012 6:57 pm

Ed,

I'm new to the boards, so Hello.
I'm sorry I missed your X-O and Harbinger deals, but would like to be included for the bloodshot package.

-j

StarBrand · Post by **StarBrand** » Wed May 23, 2012 7:04 pm

jaden_sai wrote:Ed,

I'm new to the boards, so Hello.
I'm sorry I missed your X-O and Harbinger deals, but would like to be included for the bloodshot package.

-j

Welcome to the board.

paradise · Post by **paradise** » Wed May 23, 2012 9:58 pm

jaden_sai wrote:Ed,

I'm new to the boards, so Hello.
I'm sorry I missed your X-O and Harbinger deals, but would like to be included for the bloodshot package.

-j

Yeah, Welcome to the board. And you are officially in the #1 spot after the first batch is allocated.

etos45 · Post by **etos45** » Wed May 23, 2012 10:31 pm

paradise wrote:
jaden_sai wrote:Ed,

I'm new to the boards, so Hello.
I'm sorry I missed your X-O and Harbinger deals, but would like to be included for the bloodshot package.

-j
Yeah, Welcome to the board. And you are officially in the #1 spot after the first batch is allocated.

If it matters any, he can have my slot. I'm not going to be able to afford this one.

Sethr · Post by **Sethr** » Wed May 23, 2012 10:55 pm

I would love in!

Seth

betterthanezra · Post by **betterthanezra** » Wed May 23, 2012 11:08 pm

I respect your reasons for raising the price of the package, but at $140 it's just too much for me

So for that reason I'm out

-Brian

paradise · Post by **paradise** » Wed May 23, 2012 11:14 pm

betterthanezra wrote: So for that reason I'm out

-Brian

MY #1 favorite guilty pleasure show on TV. Made my day!

BTW, I expect that a few of the members of the original buys will not participate in this one. I charged $100 for 15 comics while others charged $100 for just one 1:50 variant. The higher price on the new set is a result of me needing to make some money on these deals, and not just process 2000 copies of each #1 for free, pretty much. It's still the best deal out there, but I understand that the "total" is higher than before.

Wait till Archer & Armstrong #1. People are already asking me if I will do it. NO, I don't think I will. There is no 1:50 variant, instead it's 1:100 copies of ALL valiant books ordered that month. There is no way I could get close to 40 sets. Not even 10. So, like the quote above, I am out! on that one.

paradise · Post by **paradise** » Wed May 23, 2012 11:14 pm

Sethr wrote:I would love in!

Seth

Seth, you are #2 in line after the pre-sales to members of previous buys.

SJS4 · Post by **SJS4** » Thu May 24, 2012 9:31 am

paradise wrote: Wait till Archer & Armstrong #1. People are already asking me if I will do it. NO, I don't think I will. There is no 1:50 variant, instead it's 1:100 copies of ALL valiant books ordered that month. There is no way I could get close to 40 sets. Not even 10. So, like the quote above, I am out! on that one.

D'oh! Sorry to hear that, I was hoping to get the A&A set through you guys as well. I will probably have to resort to eBay instead.

Anyway thanks for offering this bloodshot deal, even at the higher price. Can't wait to get these in the mail! IMHO BS had the best "set" of covers so far.

etos45 · Post by **etos45** » Thu May 24, 2012 9:40 am

SJS4 wrote:
paradise wrote: Wait till Archer & Armstrong #1. People are already asking me if I will do it. NO, I don't think I will. There is no 1:50 variant, instead it's 1:100 copies of ALL valiant books ordered that month. There is no way I could get close to 40 sets. Not even 10. So, like the quote above, I am out! on that one.
D'oh! Sorry to hear that, I was hoping to get the A&A set through you guys as well. I will probably have to resort to eBay instead.

Anyway thanks for offering this bloodshot deal, even at the higher price. Can't wait to get these in the mail! IMHO BS had the best "set" of covers so far.

I think I agree with the others on here that say the A&A will actually be easier to get. I 100% see why it wouldn't work for Paradise, because it would require such a large number of orders, but I believe it'll be available in more comic shops.

BloodShot · Post by **BloodShot** » Thu May 24, 2012 9:40 am

SJS4 wrote:Anyway thanks for offering this bloodshot deal, even at the higher price. Can't wait to get these in the mail! IMHO BS had the best "set" of covers so far.

Damn straight

.

On ALL counts

.

Rufusharley · Post by **Rufusharley** » Thu May 24, 2012 9:46 am

I wish i could take you up on this offer Ed, but i've established a really good relationship with my LCS here and they seem to do a good job of working with me and getting me what i want at a nice price. So i feel a sense of loyalty to them and will of course be buying $50+ worth of comics from them that month. I just can't spend another $100+ with you. Although i wish i could. Thanks for for all your hard work.

Aram · Post by **Aram** » Thu May 24, 2012 12:47 pm

Personally, I think dealers counting on these high prices for variants will likely backfire on the Bloodshots and A&As. If they keep up with this thinking, we will see a new but smaller repeat of the 90's crash.

X-O Variant spike was understandable because the print run was known to be low and demand was quickly found to be abnormally high. It was also apparently the world's first QR talking comic ever and Valiant's first new release in comic format and first release in almost 4-5 years.

Depending on the print runs, I believe the next variant prices will spike a little on the first week and then decline faster than the X-O did. I seriously think that the print runs on Harbinger will be much Higher than X-O and that Bloodshot and A&A will be significantly higher still.

I predict that the later will likely not quite flood the market, but at least give it a solid saturation that will ensure second month lower market prices on the Variants.

I know for certain that all of my Local Comic Shops that ordered lots to get multiple Variants are still Flooded with hundreds of the first Printings of X-O. They may be going to a Second Printing, but I'd guess that at least 30-50% of the bigger Shops probably still have many many hundreds of extra copies of the first.

I personally want all the New Valiant Variants... I'd even definitely willingly pay at least $35 for any of this summers 1:50, and $15 for a 1:20, But I doubt I'd pay more than $50. for any future new 1:50 or $25 for a 1:20 unless I knew for certain it was a super low print run to justify a higher price.

I think the over $100 variant lots are very likely going to backfire on everyone, at least in the shorter term(1-2 years+). Even the 4 X-O's can be had individually by recent ebay auctions for less than $110. shipped.

I think these first Valiant Comics if not over ordered with high print runs on Bloodshot and A&A... they will be like Fables and Y the last man. They will slowly catch on across the entire comic reader market, build a huge fan base and the early first printings will be in high demand with high prices.

If they print over 70-80,000 issues of any of this summers still upcoming comics though... I doubt comic shops that over order for the variants will come out ahead for at least a year. If it tops 100k prints, I am certain it will spike and then crash... at least until Valiant reclaims it's rightful place in the market.

paradise · Post by **paradise** » Thu May 24, 2012 12:59 pm

Your argument falls apart, because there will be LESS printed of Harbinger and Bloodshot than of X-O. X-O #1 had the FCBD issue pushing it, and the promotion of being the first Valiant book. As you said a lot of dealers have a lot of copies of XO #1. They ordered more because of previous history of high values and sales. The next book, Harbinger #1, was ordered based on XO #1 sales. Why would they look at those left over copies and order MORE copies of Harbinger #1? That makes no sense.

ALso, XO #1 had a HUGE print run by these days' standards, 45,000 copies is more than the most successful Image Comics launch, Saga #1. Where do you get these estimates of 70-80k? It will be in the 30s for the next offerings. I want Valiant to sell more but I have also been in this business for 18 years and know cycles pretty well by now.

Elveen · Post by **Elveen** » Thu May 24, 2012 1:09 pm

Aram wrote:
I think these first Valiant Comics if not over ordered with high print runs on Bloodshot and A&A... they will be like Fables and Y the last man. They will slowly catch on across the entire comic reader market, build a huge fan base and the early first printings will be in high demand with high prices.

This is what I think. In a year or three I can see demand for these books rising.

The Fables comparison is interesting. Fables #1 was released in May 2002 and had a print run of 26,633 and is now a 50ish dollar book. But the XO #1 has a 45,000 print run.

With 45,000 not sure if XO #1 will become a $50 book. But I DO think there will be a demand for the back issues in a few years.

SJS4 · Post by **SJS4** » Thu May 24, 2012 1:44 pm

I do understand why some folks might not want this deal, but for me I like the guarantee that I am getting the variants. I could probably spend roughly the same amount and get them individually via eBay...but I like have it 100% absolutely certain I am getting the variant. Outside of the paradise deal, the only way I could do that would be to agree to buy 50 copies. So to me, even at the higher cost, the paradise deal is still good for me personally.

I do think the print runs for Harbinger, Bloodshot, and A&A to be significantly smaller then X-O #1, and I expect X-O to drop off quite a bit for issue #2 and #3 (and then hopefully gain new readers over time).

Anyway, regardless I am glad paradise is offering this package. Makes my life a lot easier this summer! Just wish I could get something similar for A&A!

Aram · Post by **Aram** » Thu May 24, 2012 2:34 pm

paradise wrote:Your argument falls apart, because there will be LESS printed of Harbinger and Bloodshot than of X-O. X-O #1 had the FCBD issue pushing it, and the promotion of being the first Valiant book. As you said a lot of dealers have a lot of copies of XO #1. They ordered more because of previous history of high values and sales. The next book, Harbinger #1, was ordered based on XO #1 sales. Why would they look at those left over copies and order MORE copies of Harbinger #1? That makes no sense.

ALso, XO #1 had a HUGE print run by these days' standards, 45,000 copies is more than the most successful Image Comics launch, Saga #1. Where do you get these estimates of 70-80k? It will be in the 30s for the next offerings. I want Valiant to sell more but I have also been in this business for 18 years and know cycles pretty well by now.

Ahh, I see your points. I really think it can go either way though.

I'm no dealer or expert, I'm just a interested fan and consumer who has been watching Valiant prices rise and fall for most of the last 20 years and keeping an eye on the reasons why. I agree the comics could very well be lower at 30k, if that happens then sure I think the prices would be justified, but I think they could very well be higher at even 70-80k if dealers order a lot more to get the variants that they think will skyrocket and if there is higher demand from the free comic book day issue.

We won't really know until the numbers come in on Harby, and of course then it will be too late for most.

If you are correct, then yes the demand will be high and it will be a fair deal at well over $100 and...then.. I think that I would be right on the next issues as dealers would most likely over order on Bloodshot and A&A to get in on the variant craziness... leading to higher print runs on Bloodshot and A&A.

Comparing Valiant to Image though... ouch. That's cold. I really don't see how they are even in the same ballpark. Image is a completely different kind of publisher and I think geared to a different market segment in general.

Valiant and the new relaunched 52 aside, I personally have only only picked up 4 new comics titles in the last decade. One of which was Saga and that is the only Image title, and I haven't even read it yet. The other 3 were Y the last man, Fables and Fairest(which I haven't read yet either).

I don't even have the Y or Fables comics, I get those as tpbs. But because I loved them so much I signed up for Saga and Fairest when they came out.

Even by your numbers Valiant has already blown Image's publishing place out of the water. I think Valiant might be better compared to Vertigo, which is related to a major runner and in the past used to be the black sheep but from what I'm seen is now pretty darn popular due to Fables and Y. I could be wrong though, because I don't know the numbers on Fables or Y.

I personally thought your $100 price was just barely a little too much for me but very reasonable and fair at this point for the masses, with not knowing what the next prints will be.

I think the internet really hurts the overall comic market these days on this type of stuff, and basically makes it exactly like the stock market when it comes to these variant issues.

Though I will say that if I were in your shoes, I'd probably do the $100 thing and make people buy 20 copies at 5%-10% above your cost to boot to get it,

lol. Then at least I personally wouldn't have like 48 issues of a comic laying around for every 4 I sold, only like 28.

Man Of The Atom · Post by **Man Of The Atom** » Thu May 24, 2012 7:10 pm

Ed, I would like to get in on this. Thanks!

paradise · Post by **paradise** » Thu May 24, 2012 9:50 pm

Man Of The Atom wrote:Ed, I would like to get in on this. Thanks!

Sounds good, you are #3 in line when we start.

paradise · Post by **paradise** » Thu May 24, 2012 10:02 pm

Aram wrote: Comparing Valiant to Image though... ouch. That's cold. I really don't see how they are even in the same ballpark.

Actually I compared XO #1 to Saga #1, not Valiant to Image. Image is a totally different animal. Image sells 100 times more than Valiant does, because it puts out a ton of titles, many of which are amazing, by independent creators. Image is not a publisher per se, but a printing cooperative. They get paid a flat fee to organize a bunch of creators/studios to share printing and advertising costs. Plus they have Walking Dead, the biggest beast of a property in comics or anywhere else. No way Valiant is reaching those numbers anytime soon.

Aram wrote: Even by your numbers Valiant has already blown Image's publishing place out of the water.

No, XO #1 beat Saga #1 sales. But XO had 4 covers, lots of incentives. Saga had NOTHING, besides Brian K. Vaughan's reputation. And it was very close, so not much to brag about there.

Aram wrote: I think the internet really hurts the overall comic market these days on this type of stuff, and basically makes it exactly like the stock market when it comes to these variant issues.

Internet does not do anything to help or hurt, it just facilitates commerce. It's still individuals dealing with each other. The only thing that changes is the number of transactions.

Aram wrote:Though I will say that if I were in your shoes, I'd probably do the $100 thing and make people buy 20 copies at 5%-10% above your cost to boot to get it, lol. Then at least I personally wouldn't have like 48 issues of a comic laying around for every 4 I sold, only like 28.

That does not make sense. Everyone else is selling the two covers for $150 but I should sell them for less and offer more comics at cost or 5-10% above cost (nothing really)? Is this one of those "You will lose on each item but make it up in volume" schemes? Does not make sense. Any transaction that involves money starts at market rate and discounts from it because of things like friendship, special relationships.... It does not start from "how much did it cost me?". I am giving a better than market deal ($140 for 14 comics PLUS an exclusive double signed hard to get promo, and shipping included) for about $150 in comics, to this group here, because I am a member and want to help people get what they want. Judging by the fact that more than half of the sets are already spoken for, I think "price is right".

Chiclo · Post by **Chiclo** » Fri May 25, 2012 7:40 am

I don't think your pricing is out of line at all, Ed. On the contrary, I think you are offering us a deal that is fair to both seller and buyer.

kevinbastos · Post by **kevinbastos** » Fri May 25, 2012 9:16 am

Chiclo wrote:I don't think your pricing is out of line at all, Ed. On the contrary, I think you are offering us a deal that is fair to both seller and buyer.

Ditto.

Aram · Post by **Aram** » Fri May 25, 2012 10:57 am

Well Ed, I disagree with you on some matters, but I have completely come around on others.

After what I've heard and seen the last few days I completely agree that you are offering a very fair price for the bloodshot package. When I first read about it, I didn't see that you were including 10 extra copies or the other extras.

I also for one had no idea that comic sales and print runs had dropped so low across the board and I know that Harby and especially Bloodshot 1's will not be ordered anywhere near like X-O were in my regional area.

You're a hero in my book for extending this offer! Keep up the great work!

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