Is VEI dead or dying?

[myron]

I think Dinesh and Jason deserve some credit based on where this thread was a couple of years ago. You know when things looked really bad, Shooter walking, DH taking the GK characters out from under them, and a few other just tough breaks, these two guys put their heads down with a common goal of doing this and got back to work, created a professional publishing team, got some top rate investors with experience in the industry, and then stole an up and coming star from the largest and most successful comic book company today to shape their universe.

Looks pretty good now .

There sure were a lot of Doubting Thomases around here.

Well...2+ years ago we had just heard that Shooter had been secretly working with VEI but had left on very strange terms and a lawsuit was filed. We had really seen very little movement outside of hardcover reprints of 15+ year old material and communication in general had been little to none...more on the none side. It was pretty easy to doubt.

[leonmallett]

I think Dinesh and Jason deserve some credit based on where this thread was a couple of years ago. You know when things looked really bad, Shooter walking, DH taking the GK characters out from under them, and a few other just tough breaks, these two guys put their heads down with a common goal of doing this and got back to work, created a professional publishing team, got some top rate investors with experience in the industry, and then stole an up and coming star from the largest and most successful comic book company today to shape their universe.

Looks pretty good now .

There sure were a lot of Doubting Thomases around here.

Well...2+ years ago we had just heard that Shooter had been secretly working with VEI but had left on very strange terms and a lawsuit was filed. We had really seen very little movement outside of hardcover reprints of 15+ year old material and communication in general had been little to none...more on the none side. It was pretty easy to doubt.

As a major doubter, I would say yes it was easy to doubt, and those of you with faith had that tested, no doubt about that. The momentum VEI now have has seemingly come from recruiting Simons et al.; before that, there was none apparent.

I said all along I would be happy to be proved wrong, and I now I will say that once those books are out, and I believe that they will appear, that I will stand by that statement; I will be happy that I was wrong.

However, that does not change my belief about VEI's priorities prior to the recruitment of Simons; I believe that before then they (VEI) had been focused on other media licensing, and I have yet to see any substantive contradictory evidence. I am glad they stepped up and decide to make VEI a publishing vehicle, as opposed to a brand marketing vehicle.

[Chiclo]

I think Dinesh and Jason deserve some credit based on where this thread was a couple of years ago. You know when things looked really bad, Shooter walking, DH taking the GK characters out from under them, and a few other just tough breaks, these two guys put their heads down with a common goal of doing this and got back to work, created a professional publishing team, got some top rate investors with experience in the industry, and then stole an up and coming star from the largest and most successful comic book company today to shape their universe.

Looks pretty good now .

There sure were a lot of Doubting Thomases around here.

I am guilty too. I was wrong and that is not something I say often.

I have been back on the pro-VEI train for a couple of years, though.

[400yrs]

I think Dinesh and Jason deserve some credit based on where this thread was a couple of years ago. You know when things looked really bad, Shooter walking, DH taking the GK characters out from under them, and a few other just tough breaks, these two guys put their heads down with a common goal of doing this and got back to work, created a professional publishing team, got some top rate investors with experience in the industry, and then stole an up and coming star from the largest and most successful comic book company today to shape their universe.
Looks pretty good now .

Who are you referring to there?

There sure were a lot of Doubting Thomases around here.

Yep. I was certainly one of them. Honestly, there wasn't much they could've done to give me a sense of confidence that they would put books out. Even announcing Jim Shooter as editor wouldn't have given me absolute confidence. However, that turned around pretty quickly for me when they announced Warren Simons. That was the first sign of them doing things right and probably the best name I could've hoped for.

Pessimists are never disappointed, only pleasantly surprised.

[leonmallett]

I think Dinesh and Jason deserve some credit based on where this thread was a couple of years ago.

Just want to challenge your perspective on this.

You know when things looked really bad, Shooter walking,

Which arguably they (VEI) had a hand in creating as a situation, depending on who you believe. There are two sides, not just the VEI line on that situation I reckon.

DH taking the GK characters out from under them,

Not quite, surely? They were never VEI's to be taken were they? They were always the property of Classic Media. Let us not characterise the decision of the owners into a story of VEI misfortune; it was business, and only thus, and VEI never had any rights to assert as far as I can tell.

and a few other just tough breaks, these two guys put their heads down with a common goal of doing this and got back to work, created a professional publishing team, got some top rate investors with experience in the industry, and then stole an up and coming star from the largest and most successful comic book company today to shape their universe.

Looks pretty good now .

I will credit them with eventually hiring the right people - after a seemingly very long time - but the impetus since then seems to have accelerated, which logically would follow that the recruits have been good decisions and have strong vision and focus which may not have been there previously.

[Blood of Heroes]

I think Dinesh and Jason deserve some credit based on where this thread was a couple of years ago. You know when things looked really bad, Shooter walking, DH taking the GK characters out from under them, and a few other just tough breaks, these two guys put their heads down with a common goal of doing this and got back to work, created a professional publishing team, got some top rate investors with experience in the industry, and then stole an up and coming star from the largest and most successful comic book company today to shape their universe.

Looks pretty good now .

There sure were a lot of Doubting Thomases around here.

Well...2+ years ago we had just heard that Shooter had been secretly working with VEI but had left on very strange terms and a lawsuit was filed. We had really seen very little movement outside of hardcover reprints of 15+ year old material and communication in general had been little to none...more on the none side. It was pretty easy to doubt.

As a major doubter, I would say yes it was easy to doubt, and those of you with faith had that tested, no doubt about that. The momentum VEI now have has seemingly come from recruiting Simons et al.; before that, there was none apparent.

I said all along I would be happy to be proved wrong, and I now I will say that once those books are out, and I believe that they will appear, that I will stand by that statement; I will be happy that I was wrong.

However, that does not change my belief about VEI's priorities prior to the recruitment of Simons; I believe that before then they (VEI) had been focused on other media licensing, and I have yet to see any substantive contradictory evidence. I am glad they stepped up and decide to make VEI a publishing vehicle, as opposed to a brand marketing vehicle.

At the end of the day, Dinesh and Co. don't owe anyone *SQUEE*. They bought the characters and they can do whatever the *SQUEE* they want with them. It's not like this board is full of stockholders.

[400yrs]

At the end of the day, Dinesh and Co. don't owe anyone *SQUEE*. They bought the characters and they can do whatever the *SQUEE* they want with them. It's not like this board is full of stockholders.

Certainly. But if they used family money to buy the characters only to sit at home watching Jerry Springer all day, that would be pretty lame.

People here don't have stock in the company, but they do have interest in the stories once told with these characters and interest in the stories that could be told again. Otherwise, this site never would've been created.

[leonmallett]

I think Dinesh and Jason deserve some credit based on where this thread was a couple of years ago. You know when things looked really bad, Shooter walking, DH taking the GK characters out from under them, and a few other just tough breaks, these two guys put their heads down with a common goal of doing this and got back to work, created a professional publishing team, got some top rate investors with experience in the industry, and then stole an up and coming star from the largest and most successful comic book company today to shape their universe.

Looks pretty good now .

There sure were a lot of Doubting Thomases around here.

Well...2+ years ago we had just heard that Shooter had been secretly working with VEI but had left on very strange terms and a lawsuit was filed. We had really seen very little movement outside of hardcover reprints of 15+ year old material and communication in general had been little to none...more on the none side. It was pretty easy to doubt.

As a major doubter, I would say yes it was easy to doubt, and those of you with faith had that tested, no doubt about that. The momentum VEI now have has seemingly come from recruiting Simons et al.; before that, there was none apparent.

I said all along I would be happy to be proved wrong, and I now I will say that once those books are out, and I believe that they will appear, that I will stand by that statement; I will be happy that I was wrong.

However, that does not change my belief about VEI's priorities prior to the recruitment of Simons; I believe that before then they (VEI) had been focused on other media licensing, and I have yet to see any substantive contradictory evidence. I am glad they stepped up and decide to make VEI a publishing vehicle, as opposed to a brand marketing vehicle.

At the end of the day, Dinesh and Co. don't owe anyone *SQUEE*. They bought the characters and they can do whatever the *SQUEE* they want with them. It's not like this board is full of stockholders.

I don't disagree about their rights, and if you search back though any of my posts on the matter I think you find my position has been consistent on that point.

I would not not even argue that fans have any moral right to have their expectations met simply as a matter of course; they don't.

No, what I would argue is they (VEI) did a whole lot of very little for quite a considerable time, and that for whatever reason THAT decision compounded expectations that VEI themselves created and engendered. And yes, I do think this relaunch could have happened 2-3 years ago if they (VEI) had the focus they have shown circa the past 12-18 months.

[MarrowMan]

I think Dinesh and Jason deserve some credit based on where this thread was a couple of years ago. You know when things looked really bad, Shooter walking, DH taking the GK characters out from under them, and a few other just tough breaks, these two guys put their heads down with a common goal of doing this and got back to work, created a professional publishing team, got some top rate investors with experience in the industry, and then stole an up and coming star from the largest and most successful comic book company today to shape their universe.

Looks pretty good now .

There sure were a lot of Doubting Thomases around here.

Well...2+ years ago we had just heard that Shooter had been secretly working with VEI but had left on very strange terms and a lawsuit was filed. We had really seen very little movement outside of hardcover reprints of 15+ year old material and communication in general had been little to none...more on the none side. It was pretty easy to doubt.

As a major doubter, I would say yes it was easy to doubt, and those of you with faith had that tested, no doubt about that. The momentum VEI now have has seemingly come from recruiting Simons et al.; before that, there was none apparent.

I said all along I would be happy to be proved wrong, and I now I will say that once those books are out, and I believe that they will appear, that I will stand by that statement; I will be happy that I was wrong.

However, that does not change my belief about VEI's priorities prior to the recruitment of Simons; I believe that before then they (VEI) had been focused on other media licensing, and I have yet to see any substantive contradictory evidence. I am glad they stepped up and decide to make VEI a publishing vehicle, as opposed to a brand marketing vehicle.

At the end of the day, Dinesh and Co. don't owe anyone *SQUEE*. They bought the characters and they can do whatever the *SQUEE* they want with them. It's not like this board is full of stockholders.

I don't disagree about their rights, and if you search back though any of my posts on the matter I think you find my position has been consistent on that point.

I would not not even argue that fans have any moral right to have their expectations met simply as a matter of course; they don't.

No, what I would argue is they (VEI) did a whole lot of very little for quite a considerable time, and that for whatever reason THAT decision compounded expectations that VEI themselves created and engendered. And yes, I do think this relaunch could have happened 2-3 years ago if they (VEI) had the focus they have shown circa the past 12-18 months.

I personally believe (but of course do not actually know) that the new Valiant Universe was/is being prepared for launch during the down time (creating new stories/arcs/characters take a long time) and Valiant didn't want to screw it up, so they took their time. I could be 100% wrong, so tell me if I am.

[kevinbastos]

I think that whatever happened can (and is) being used to a great advantage.

If you can, take a minute and go back to the podcasts leading up to and at the launch of the Dark Key line. It is a pretty good microcosm of our feelings at the time.

Plus, VEI could use what happened their as leverage and a plan of what TO do, and what to avoid.

Without dredging through the muck, it seems now to have worked out well.

[BruceReville]

Possibly the biggest thing they were waiting for was guidance - remember this was a very quiet project until they hired Peter Cuneo then within 6 months the rumblings began and in December we were treated to an announcement of new titles to be coming forth and a FCBD issue. They probably had the $$$$ and the rights, but it's like driving a stick shift. You may grind the gears alot trying to learn to drive it on your own, but then you get someone to show you how its done then it all comes together easy and fast for ya!

[leonmallett]

Possibly the biggest thing they were waiting for was guidance - remember this was a very quiet project until they hired Peter Cuneo then within 6 months the rumblings began and in December we were treated to an announcement of new titles to be coming forth and a FCBD issue. They probably had the $$$$ and the rights, but it's like driving a stick shift. You may grind the gears alot trying to learn to drive it on your own, but then you get someone to show you how its done then it all comes together easy and fast for ya!

Nice analogy.

[greg]

Nice anal

[BruceReville]

Nice anal

When ya got it - ya got it

[myron]

Nice anal

oh no you di'nt

[leonmallett]

Nice anal

oh no you di'nt

I could understand if Evil Greg was responsible, but our inestimable host...?

[greg]

Nice anal

oh no you di'nt

I could understand if Evil Greg was responsible, but our inestimable host...?

Regular Greg is Evil Greg until his morning pill kicks in.

[leonmallett]

Nice anal

oh no you di'nt

I could understand if Evil Greg was responsible, but our inestimable host...?

Regular Greg is Evil Greg until his morning pill kicks in.

[Ryan]

No, what I would argue is they (VEI) did a whole lot of very little for quite a considerable time, and that for whatever reason THAT decision compounded expectations that VEI themselves created and engendered. And yes, I do think this relaunch could have happened 2-3 years ago if they (VEI) had the focus they have shown circa the past 12-18 months.

I don't know, I'd imagine they've been working on this pretty hard for longer than the last 12-18 months. I think you're underestimating how much work it takes to launch a successful comic book universe basically from scratch.

Case in point: Dark Key. Everyone (including myself) was impressed at how fast they went from hiring Shooter to having the books coming out. But then you saw the result. Poor marketing, poor editing, and disastrous creative choices that led to sloppy looking books that were usually months late. They blew a ton of money and didn't even make a dent in the marketplace. And this was from a publisher with 20+ years experience!

All I'm saying that as fans we don't know how long it takes to successfully launch a huge publishing venture. More than just writing the stories, there's a million things on the publishing, editorial, and marketing side that take a whole lot of time to develop (not to mention dealing with other media like movies, which only makes sense in today's market). I'm glad they've had the guts to stick it out through these years to make something that fans can be proud of and that has a chance to stick.

[dino]

I don't know, I'd imagine they've been working on this pretty hard for longer than the last 12-18 months. I think you're underestimating how much work it takes to launch a successful comic book universe basically from scratch.

Case in point: Dark Key. Everyone (including myself) was impressed at how fast they went from hiring Shooter to having the books coming out. But then you saw the result. Poor marketing, poor editing, and disastrous creative choices that led to sloppy looking books that were usually months late. They blew a ton of money and didn't even make a dent in the marketplace. And this was from a publisher with 20+ years experience!

All I'm saying that as fans we don't know how long it takes to successfully launch a huge publishing venture. More than just writing the stories, there's a million things on the publishing, editorial, and marketing side that take a whole lot of time to develop (not to mention dealing with other media like movies, which only makes sense in today's market). I'm glad they've had the guts to stick it out through these years to make something that fans can be proud of and that has a chance to stick.

Quoted for truth. Lots of what you are seeing now was in place before we even started with Jim.

[xodacia81]

No, what I would argue is they (VEI) did a whole lot of very little for quite a considerable time, and that for whatever reason THAT decision compounded expectations that VEI themselves created and engendered. And yes, I do think this relaunch could have happened 2-3 years ago if they (VEI) had the focus they have shown circa the past 12-18 months.

I don't know, I'd imagine they've been working on this pretty hard for longer than the last 12-18 months. I think you're underestimating how much work it takes to launch a successful comic book universe basically from scratch.

Case in point: Dark Key. Everyone (including myself) was impressed at how fast they went from hiring Shooter to having the books coming out. But then you saw the result. Poor marketing, poor editing, and disastrous creative choices that led to sloppy looking books that were usually months late. They blew a ton of money and didn't even make a dent in the marketplace. And this was from a publisher with 20+ years experience!

All I'm saying that as fans we don't know how long it takes to successfully launch a huge publishing venture. More than just writing the stories, there's a million things on the publishing, editorial, and marketing side that take a whole lot of time to develop (not to mention dealing with other media like movies, which only makes sense in today's market). I'm glad they've had the guts to stick it out through these years to make something that fans can be proud of and that has a chance to stick.

I've said that before. I've also been as frustrated as others at the lack of info, but not because I thought they weren't doing anything. I WANTED more and I thought it would be nice to get more, but when I stepped back and thought about it, I could get why they were so quiet. I think it was much better not to say anything than to build buzz too early and have it die off, leaving the launch a dud. I think what they've done is very intelligent and, as Dino just posted, shows years and years of work.

Speaking of that, I wonder if Shooter didn't leave, in part, because he just wanted to rehash everything and VEI wanted to push things forward. I don't expect an answer and I won't ask for one, but I've always gotten the feeling that Shooter is stuck in the past and when a company is moving forward, people like that get left behind.

[Blood of Heroes]

And yes, I do think this relaunch could have happened 2-3 years ago if they (VEI) had the focus they have shown circa the past 12-18 months.

Put out comic books? Sure. Put out good comic books? The kind that will attract new readers and reward the long time fans for their patience and support? Not on your life. If VEI had rushed to put out books the board would be filled with everyone b!tching and moaning about how bad they suck instead of people bursting at the seams with excitement.

Anything worth doing is worth doing right.

[Crow331]

Everyone (including myself) was impressed at how fast they went from hiring Shooter to having the books coming out. But then you saw the result. Poor marketing, poor editing, and disastrous creative choices that led to sloppy looking books that were usually months late. They blew a ton of money and didn't even make a dent in the marketplace. And this was from a publisher with 20+ years experience!

Very good point Also it would of been easy for Dino to come on here and say "hey guys, this is what we're doing, don't think we're dying!!! We're working here!! We secretly have Jim!" ... but instead they basically kept their mouth shut and just went about their business. VERY smart move in hindsight.

I don't agree with all their business decisions but they are doing an excellent job so far

[Elveen]

And yes, I do think this relaunch could have happened 2-3 years ago if they (VEI) had the focus they have shown circa the past 12-18 months.

Put out comic books? Sure. Put out good comic books? The kind that will attract new readers and reward the long time fans for their patience and support? Not on your life. If VEI had rushed to put out books the board would be filled with everyone b!tching and moaning about how bad they suck instead of people bursting at the seams with excitement.

Anything worth doing is worth doing right.

I agree with Blood here.

And Leon, I mean nothing harsh here, just discussing, but unless you have worked in comic book publishing, you thinking that VE could have relaunched 2-3 years ago is just opinion and speculation. Could they have gotten out a comic book with words and pictures, maybe (I honestly have NO idea how long this stuff takes), but could they have relaunched Valiant comic books. My opinion is no. I have only been privy to a micro-glimpse into what is coming...... but they have long term plans and views for the universe that have not developed over night. (I'm biased) but Valiant is different from anyone else; the tight continuity, the world outside your window, the rich layered settings....... I'd imagine this take a bit of time to develop. And from what I have gleaned, they have developed it.

VE has all along had plans to publish new Valiant comic books. Now they are. From what I have personally seen and heard from them makes it obvious to me that they have been working on this for a long time.

(not trying to antagonize at all)

[StarBrand]

I wonder exactly what role Bill Jemas filled with VEI. The fact he was there for awhile made me feel they were still pushing ahead with comics. I wonder if we'll ever find out what he did for VEI.