DC Relaunch Story Discussions ONLY (no market info or spec)

Dr. Solar · Post by **Dr. Solar** » Mon Oct 03, 2011 6:51 pm

400yrs wrote:It's in their 52 pick up week 4 review. Fuzzy Typewriter is a podcast of Paul Montgomery from Ifanboy. Here's the link. The discussion of the compressing is toward the beginning. I haven't actually listened to the whole thing because the reviews are a bit overly critical this week compared to early weeks.

http://fuzzytypewriter.wordpress.com/20 ... week-four/

Thanks for the link! I'll listen tonight.

Triumphant Serial Number · Tue Oct 04, 2011 1:06 am

re: the recompression of that issue and the art . . .

I think Dr. Solar is too kind to Jim Lee about not wanting to interfere with his art.

I hadn't seen any Jim Lee pages (not covers) for easily . . . 15 years? (I don't read comics anymore besides the cancelled Shooter titles). I suppose the last pages I saw were from Divine Right or some other trash book that he scribbled layouts for that Scott Williams ghosted for him before the workload became so great he had to take a multi-year sabbatical again . . .

And this compressed book is garbage. He's worse than he was in the 90s. Looking at some of the figures I had to shake my head. Granted, he's been a shell of himself ever since he left Uncanny X-Men, but this new stuff can't hold a candle to even his work on Punisher War Journal. You could compress it much more, because the art isn't so great that it demands to be felt in 16 pages.

Sorry, had to put it out there.

Triumphant Serial Number · Tue Oct 04, 2011 1:09 am

and speaking of "DC Relaunch Story Discussions" . . .

Everyone should check out Shooter's blog where he reviews some book about the dead Robin and some dude who tool around with Starfire.

It's a noteworthy examination of both the book and modern storytelling (decompression, bizarre uncalled for and confusing layouts, etc).

Draco · Post by **Draco** » Tue Oct 04, 2011 3:37 am

Im not a massive Jim Lee fan nowadays, but i actually really liked his art on Justice League, but you cant satisfy everyone all the time can you.

ian_house · Post by **ian_house** » Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:07 am

Triumphant Serial Number wrote:and speaking of "DC Relaunch Story Discussions" . . .

Everyone should check out Shooter's blog where he reviews some book about the dead Robin and some dude who tool around with Starfire.

It's a noteworthy examination of both the book and modern storytelling (decompression, bizarre uncalled for and confusing layouts, etc).

As opposed to Shooter's newer books that were exactly right. With the same layouts he's been churning out since a school boy. Sorry but people in glass houses, pots and kettles etc etc. Regardless of art problems or release dates Shooter definitely has some blame for the DHGK line.

Dr. Solar · Post by **Dr. Solar** » Tue Oct 04, 2011 11:19 am

Jim, despite how traditional he may be, nailed down exactly why I thought Starfire was a train wreck in Red Hood and the Outlaws.

Jim Shooter wrote:The problem I have with Starfire is that she’s a device, not a character. Feh.

Triumphant Serial Number · Tue Oct 04, 2011 2:56 pm

ian_house wrote:
As opposed to Shooter's newer books that were exactly right. With the same layouts he's been churning out since a school boy. Sorry but people in glass houses, pots and kettles etc etc. Regardless of art problems or release dates Shooter definitely has some blame for the DHGK line.

Shooter didn't edit or control those books, but even if he did . . . what does that have to do with the New 52 book he reviewed?

His critiques of it were spot on, whether he has his own line cancelled due to his writing lateness or poor writing or the market or whatever (the books weren't hurt because they were missing jagged un-related overlapping panels that didn't tell whatever the story was).

ian_house · Post by **ian_house** » Thu Oct 06, 2011 8:35 am

Triumphant Serial Number wrote:
ian_house wrote:
As opposed to Shooter's newer books that were exactly right. With the same layouts he's been churning out since a school boy. Sorry but people in glass houses, pots and kettles etc etc. Regardless of art problems or release dates Shooter definitely has some blame for the DHGK line.
Shooter didn't edit or control those books, but even if he did . . . what does that have to do with the New 52 book he reviewed?

His critiques of it were spot on, whether he has his own line cancelled due to his writing lateness or poor writing or the market or whatever (the books weren't hurt because they were missing jagged un-related overlapping panels that didn't tell whatever the story was).

As I said people in glass houses. When your products are being slated it's probably best not to pick on somebody elses. And although Shooter didn't edit each individual book he was hired to develop a line of GK books which gave him alot of control.

ian_house · Post by **ian_house** » Thu Oct 06, 2011 8:38 am

Dr. Solar wrote:Jim, despite how traditional he may be, nailed down exactly why I thought Starfire was a train wreck in Red Hood and the Outlaws.

Jim Shooter wrote:The problem I have with Starfire is that she’s a device, not a character. Feh.

I especially like his use of 'Feh.'

sd2416 · Post by **sd2416** » Thu Oct 06, 2011 8:52 am

The first week of the relaunch I picked up
Action
Det
Swamp Thing
Animal Man
Red Lanterns

I picked up the same books yesterday.

Next month I will pick up Action, Det (its close to getting dropped), Swamp Thing and Animal Man.

So I have already dropped Red Lanterns.

caxiotis · Post by **caxiotis** » Thu Oct 06, 2011 8:39 pm

I bought four books, Action, Detective, Animal Man, and Swamp Thing. I haven't read Swamp Thing yet but my reviews on the other books are below:

Action #2 was an impulse buy and I actually thought it was better than issue #1. Good enough to be added to my officially pull list.

Detective #2 was a not very good at all. In fact this was just staight disappointing and I am dropping off my list. The end of the story has another cliff hanger and the villan in the book is just too rediculous.

Animal Man #2 ABSOLUTELY AMAZING!!!!!! won't give any details away, but GREAT!!!!

Also, read Superman #1 that I bought last week and thought it was complete garbage. Don't waste your time.

ian_house · Post by **ian_house** » Thu Oct 06, 2011 8:42 pm

An awesome week for me (but not just because of DC also Invincible and Chew in a week, win). Action #2 was my pick of the bunch. JLI wa great fun again and I'm growing to love the new Booster. Animal Man continued where it left off, top writing and incredible imagery. Detective didn't hold up to hte 2st issue but I didn't expect much from Tony Daniel, I do wonder how he has got this Detective job, did anyone love his Batman run?

Tim · Post by **Tim** » Thu Oct 06, 2011 9:25 pm

I must be missing something as far as Action #2 goes. I didn't like the 1st issue that much but it wasn't horrible. I thought Issue #2 was excruciating to read and I found myself skipping whole panels just out of bordeom. Reading #2 kind of cemented the fact that this book simply isn't for me.

caxiotis · Post by **caxiotis** » Thu Oct 20, 2011 9:37 pm

Time some new reviews. Have been buying more DC than I predicted, so here are some reviews

Demon knights #2- I kinda liked the first issue so I thought I would give it another chance. Too bad because this book is not good. It's like a bad D&D story. Officially dropped.

Frankenstein #2 - again kinda liked the first issue. Also like lemiere, but this is just okay. The characters are just too rediculous. Officially dropped.

Wonder woman#2 - amazing. Really liking this book. Definitely in my top three new DCu books.

Swamp Thing #2 - sadly thought this was just okay. I really like the first book, and I feel there is potential. Inwill keep reading this for now.

Still gotta read batman #2 but hope it's as good as the first.

My top three right now are animal man, wonder woman and aqua man.

400yrs · Post by **400yrs** » Thu Oct 20, 2011 9:51 pm

caxiotis wrote:Time some new reviews. Have been buying more DC than I predicted, so here are some reviews

Demon knights #2- I kinda liked the first issue so I thought I would give it another chance. Too bad because this book is not good. It's like a bad D&D story. Officially dropped.

Frankenstein #2 - again kinda liked the first issue. Also like lemiere, but this is just okay. The characters are just too rediculous. Officially dropped.

Wonder woman#2 - amazing. Really liking this book. Definitely in my top three new DCu books.

Swamp Thing #2 - sadly thought this was just okay. I really like the first book, and I feel there is potential. Inwill keep reading this for now.

Still gotta read batman #2 but hope it's as good as the first.

My top three right now are animal man, wonder woman and aqua man.

Thanks for the reviews. They help me in cementing my thoughts and deciding what to buy.

Regarding Demon Knights, I know that series isn't for me because I automatically equate D&D with "bad".

On Frankenstein, I felt the same as you on the first issue and decided not to buy the second. Wonder Woman, I really liked #1, but have been going back and forth on getting #2.

Batman and Animal Man 2, I'll be waiting for my monthly shipment. Wonder Woman and Aquaman 2, I will try and track down.

The only #2 issue I've read thus far is Swamp Thing. The first half was waaaaay painful. The second half was good. With all of the exposition out of the way, I think Snyder will get to the story now.

caxiotis · Post by **caxiotis** » Thu Oct 20, 2011 10:31 pm

400yrs wrote:Wonder Woman and Aquaman 2, I will try and track down.

I have not read aqua man #2 yet as it comes out next week, but hoping for a great read

400yrs · Post by **400yrs** » Thu Oct 20, 2011 10:42 pm

Yeah, I was really shocked with how much I liked #1. I liked the art from the previews, but Aquaman is such a lame character, I wasn't going to buy it. But then I heard some good reviews. Very glad I picked it up. It looks like it may end up being a character book which is what I like.

ian_house · Post by **ian_house** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 5:33 am

Cut back a bit this week:

Batman #2 - Stunning both visually and narratively. Loving the new world Snyder is laying out and really glad I read Gates of Gotham before as I really feel like I know this new Gotham.

Nightwing #2 - I enjoyed this ALOT more than the 1st issue and seems to be tying in with Snyder's Batman work which isn't a bad thing!

Justice League #2 - The Flash baby! Really enjoyed this issue apart from the Vic/Cyborg stuff. Yes its decompressed story telling which I'm not a huge fan of but it does allow for some beautiful little character moments and Johns is damn good at writing them. This opening arc does remind me of the old JLA stuff.

Dr. Solar · Post by **Dr. Solar** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 8:46 am

Some books that have moved up or down for me based on the second issue (weeks 1 and 2):

Justice League International #2 - A LOT better than issue 1. More fun, more story, just MORE.

Huntress #1 - This was pretty good! Not great, but pretty good.

Batman and Robin #2 - Really liked this book. This issue has made this my favorite Bat-Book, I think. Way better than issue 1.

Demon Knights #2 - This book took a bit of a dive here. This issue just seemed like a confused mess to me.

ian_house · Post by **ian_house** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 10:13 am

Dr. Solar wrote:Some books that have moved up or down for me based on the second issue (weeks 1 and 2):

Justice League International #2 - A LOT better than issue 1. More fun, more story, just MORE.

Huntress #1 - This was pretty good! Not great, but pretty good.

Batman and Robin #2 - Really liked this book. This issue has made this my favorite Bat-Book, I think. Way better than issue 1.

Demon Knights #2 - This book took a bit of a dive here. This issue just seemed like a confused mess to me.

I'm not so sure on Batman & Robin. It seems like they have turned Damian into a bit of a *SQUEE*. Agree about JLI and to some extent Demon Knights.

Dr. Solar · Post by **Dr. Solar** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 11:07 am

ian_house wrote:I'm not so sure on Batman & Robin. It seems like they have turned Damian into a bit of a *SQUEE*. Agree about JLI and to some extent Demon Knights.

Yes, Damian was such a polite, nice boy before the relaunch

What I liked about Batman and Robin was the idea that Batman has to learn to be a father, and that he kind of sucks at it. This issue made it feel like far more of a father/son book, and made Damian seem like less of a little snotty kid and more of a kid troubled by how he was raised and what he was raised to become.

Heath · Post by **Heath** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 11:46 am

I haven't read this thread yet because I'm just now getting caught up with my Flashpoint reading. I took a peak at Justice League #1 when I got it from MOC and just read the first few pages (enough to see that Green Lantern thought Batman was only a legend - so obviously they've never met before). I set it aside until I finished Flashpoint. Well, I read Flashpoint #5 last night and I'm confused about something.

I thought Flashpoint was supposed to lead into the "new" DCU? Maybe explain the universe starting over and all the changes? Did I miss something? I thought the resolution to Flashpoint was going to tie directly into the rebooted universe. Or was Flashpoint #5 the last "old" DCU story, Justice League #1 the first "new" DCU story with nothing really connecting them?

BruceReville · Post by **BruceReville** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 11:56 am

Heath wrote:I haven't read this thread yet because I'm just now getting caught up with my Flashpoint reading. I took a peak at Justice League #1 when I got it from MOC and just read the first few pages (enough to see that Green Lantern thought Batman was only a legend - so obviously they've never met before). I set it aside until I finished Flashpoint. Well, I read Flashpoint #5 last night and I'm confused about something.

I thought Flashpoint was supposed to lead into the "new" DCU? Maybe explain the universe starting over and all the changes? Did I miss something? I thought the resolution to Flashpoint was going to tie directly into the rebooted universe. Or was Flashpoint #5 the last "old" DCU story, Justice League #1 the first "new" DCU story with nothing really connecting them?

When Flash stopped himself from doing the thing that caused Flashpoint he was running back and then the hooded lady told him that she needed to merge the 3 timelines (Wildstorm/Vertigo/DC Proper) into one to prevent some coming danger. The thing that confused me was that once Flash arrived in the New DCU he met up with Batman in the batcave like they had known each other for a while and told him of everything he remembered from the Flashpoint universe and even gave him a note from Wayne Thomas.

However when the relaunch/reboot books start coming out it is apparent that the events from Flashpoint 5 involving the New DCU could either 1) Not have ever happened 2) happened sometime years after Justice League which takes 5 years in the past and everyone meets everyone for the first time, but then why did Flash wait and why doesn't he remember anything from Flashpoint as he states he did in Flashpoint 5 3) It happens later after Flash possibly has a memory jog of everything that happened before and then him and Batman both forget everything that happens between themselves.

400yrs · Post by **400yrs** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 9:15 pm

BruceReville wrote:
Heath wrote:I haven't read this thread yet because I'm just now getting caught up with my Flashpoint reading. I took a peak at Justice League #1 when I got it from MOC and just read the first few pages (enough to see that Green Lantern thought Batman was only a legend - so obviously they've never met before). I set it aside until I finished Flashpoint. Well, I read Flashpoint #5 last night and I'm confused about something.

I thought Flashpoint was supposed to lead into the "new" DCU? Maybe explain the universe starting over and all the changes? Did I miss something? I thought the resolution to Flashpoint was going to tie directly into the rebooted universe. Or was Flashpoint #5 the last "old" DCU story, Justice League #1 the first "new" DCU story with nothing really connecting them?
When Flash stopped himself from doing the thing that caused Flashpoint he was running back and then the hooded lady told him that she needed to merge the 3 timelines (Wildstorm/Vertigo/DC Proper) into one to prevent some coming danger. The thing that confused me was that once Flash arrived in the New DCU he met up with Batman in the batcave like they had known each other for a while and told him of everything he remembered from the Flashpoint universe and even gave him a note from Wayne Thomas.

However when the relaunch/reboot books start coming out it is apparent that the events from Flashpoint 5 involving the New DCU could either 1) Not have ever happened 2) happened sometime years after Justice League which takes 5 years in the past and everyone meets everyone for the first time, but then why did Flash wait and why doesn't he remember anything from Flashpoint as he states he did in Flashpoint 5 3) It happens later after Flash possibly has a memory jog of everything that happened before and then him and Batman both forget everything that happens between themselves.

And..................... ..... This is why I never liked DC!

400yrs · Post by **400yrs** » Sat Oct 22, 2011 11:26 pm

Wonder Woman #2 - This was good. It's going on my sub.

Although the #1 cover has grown on me, I find it strange that I haven't liked either cover, but I really dig the interiors. The blocky / thick lined style of Cliff Chiang is awesome.

I'm glad they are taking the mystery / horror angle on this.

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