How Many and Which Titles Should the New Valiant Lead With?

Phantom.. · Post by **Phantom..** » Sat Jul 23, 2011 3:45 pm

bloodhot / rai

xo and the armorines?

Either way
XO

Armorines

Never a fan of team books ~ I would release that latter.

Eternal warrior

SJS4 · Post by **SJS4** » Sun Jul 24, 2011 12:21 am

I think the point about having 4 books (to start) is a good one. The one thing I would add is that the books need to be able to give a wide view of the valiant universe. What I am not sure about is whether a 4000 AD universe can (or should) exist without Magnus...and believe me I was a big fan of Rai (preferred the non-bloodshot version).

I would start with:

Harbinger - This would provide an opportunity to see many characters (good and bad) and lays the groundwork for where super powers cone from in the valiant universe. Having Stancheck and Harada as main players in the Valiant universe is a must IMHO.

X-O Manowar - definitely needs to be in the first batch...having Aric, Spider Aliens, and Orb Industries is also a must for Valiant to succeed long term. Aric will almost certainly be one of the most popular characters, and Orb Industries and the Spider Aliens will be integral throughout the entire valiant universe.

Shadowman - personally I wasn't a big fan of this comic, but I do think the mythos of Shadowman, Master Darque, and the connections to the occult are integral to the valiant universe. It's also another book I think will be popular I'd handled right. Having bob hall would be ideal, but not necessary IMHO.

The fourth book is tough. I think one of the immortals needs to have a series so that their mythos (along withe geomancers) can also be included. I am not sure which would be sustainable - A&A or EW. A&A always seemed to be a critical favorite but I always got the impression it was a poor seller. Maybe a book that is flexible and can sometimes tell A&A stories, sometimes EW, sometimes Timewalker, and sometimes all of them together?

Armorines (X-O), Hard Corps (Harbinger), Bloodshot (EW), Ninjak (EW, Bloodshot), Doctor Mirage (Shadowman), etc can exist easily within the titles above and, if they prove popular enough would be the best options for expansion. I don't see these characters as critical or integral to the universe though. Bloodshot is probably the closest, but even he was mainly constructed after the original universe was solidly laid out.

JMHO of course...

etos45 · Post by **etos45** » Sun Jul 24, 2011 12:55 am

I would think that because of the hardcovers, you can almost expect to see Harbinger, X-O, and A&A to be some of the launch titles. Because of the website and the movie talks, I would guarantee that Bloodshot will be a launch title. So if there were to be only four titles at launch, it's a pretty good guess those will be the four.

I am also curious as to what they will do with the 4000AD stories like Rai and PsiLords. It seems like since 4000AD is really more of a Magnus thing, it doesn't seem to really fit in the new VEI.

As for making new Valiant fit with old Valiant continuity... if I'm reading the articles right, then there will be no continuity between them. It sounds like they're starting over fresh yet familiar.

betterthanezra · Post by **betterthanezra** » Sun Jul 24, 2011 2:04 am

Phantom.. wrote:
betterthanezra wrote:
kevinbastos wrote:Something else I thought of...

FINISH UNITY 2000!

I really don't care how crummy it is.
That's never going to happen....

sorry

-Brian
Umm yes it is going to be finished. Try valiantcollectorsociety ! Imageowner 2 a member of this board has the permission to publish.
Jay Jay is in the process of colouring it ~ I think.

Image has been mega busy ~ and the community therir is small ~ but it will happen

Ok let me rephase it then VEI will not publish the rest of Unity 2000.

-Brian

Phantom.. · Post by **Phantom..** » Sun Jul 24, 2011 2:55 am

betterthanezra wrote:
Phantom.. wrote:
betterthanezra wrote:
kevinbastos wrote:Something else I thought of...

FINISH UNITY 2000!

I really don't care how crummy it is.
That's never going to happen....

sorry

-Brian
Umm yes it is going to be finished. Try valiantcollectorsociety ! Imageowner 2 a member of this board has the permission to publish.
Jay Jay is in the process of colouring it ~ I think.

Image has been mega busy ~ and the community therir is small ~ but it will happen
Ok let me rephase it then VEI will not publish the rest of Unity 2000.

-Brian

Sorry My misunderstanding ~ stupid me as it was in the thread title.

Zaphod · Post by **Zaphod** » Sun Jul 24, 2011 3:04 am

I said years ago to lead with a miniseries Crisis type event. Introduce the lead characters the new company is going to go with, kill off the ones they aren't and voila, reboot.

so, Unity 2K redux.

kevinbastos · Post by **kevinbastos** » Sun Jul 24, 2011 6:22 am

betterthanezra wrote:
Phantom.. wrote:
betterthanezra wrote:
kevinbastos wrote:Something else I thought of...

FINISH UNITY 2000!

I really don't care how crummy it is.
That's never going to happen....

sorry

-Brian
Umm yes it is going to be finished. Try valiantcollectorsociety ! Imageowner 2 a member of this board has the permission to publish.
Jay Jay is in the process of colouring it ~ I think.

Image has been mega busy ~ and the community therir is small ~ but it will happen
Ok let me rephase it then VEI will not publish the rest of Unity 2000.

-Brian

I understand. Was on that list - hoping to see it finished - but seems to have REALLY stalled again.

We'll see.

Phoenix8008 · Post by **Phoenix8008** » Wed Jul 27, 2011 5:08 am

Interesting.

Well, my top picks would be as follows:

X-O Manowar (Sci-fi and barbarian stories w/ Spider Alien villains)
Harbinger (Harbinger stories w/ Harada Corp as villains)
Eternal Warrior (Modern and past Valiant history stories w/ many villains)
Bloodshot (Tech based w/ Mafia and Rising Spirit villains among others)
Shadowman (Supernatural stories w/ Master Darque as villain)

I thinks those are the top five for me. Although I'm sure A&A would be number 6 just for it's popularity with others and as a humorous title. It just never did alot for me. A good range of stories and subjects running the gamut from tech to supernatural and from past to present (or even future). Speaking of the future timeline, I would love to see stories set in the 4000+ year period. Maybe it could be a single title that doesn't focus just on Magnus (since he's untouchable anyway), Rai, or Psi-Lords. Maybe a combo book with the Obidiah Rai and Torque (who was made into a Psi-Lord if I remember right). Them as the core team playing off each others personalities and you can run any planet based robot stories as well as space based Psi-lords stories.

I think the biggest trouble people have with a Rai book is... Which one?! I mean, do you go back to 'spirit guardian of Japan' Tohru? Or the Malev killing nano-enhanced, inspirational Takao? Or the youngest Rai, Obidiah? What Rai started as is very different from what it became. Personally, I'll take either of the ones with the Blood of Heroes just for the connection back to Bloodshot in the past, if nothing else.

I'd also love to see later some other titles like Ninjak, HARD Corps, and maybe Armorines. They can put some Timewalker stories in EW or A&A and some Geomancer stories in EW. Not sure if Geo should be a separate title or not. I did like the idea of Armstrong being the one that was supposed to be the Geomancer all through time and that his drinking was a way to shut up the voices of the earth that he didn't want to hear. I'd love to see some of that story evolve in present day EW or A&A. A reluctant Geomancer... not sure how well it'd work though.

xodacia81 · Post by **xodacia81** » Wed Jul 27, 2011 8:35 am

You release 4 books so you can have something on the stands every week. You eventually go up to no more than 8 books with the occassional miniseries or one-shot. Me, I'd start out with something like:

XO
Harbinger
Eternal Warrior
Bloodshot/Rai

Then I would add in Archer and Armstrong(say, 6 months after the launch, maybe)
After that, I'd consider something like Shadowman or, although I wouldn't want it-but it seems they do-Ninjak. That would come a couple months after A&A.

As for what comes next, there are books I'd like to see. Maybe a miniseries about the Geomancers, or a new Dr. Mirage series. Those could be cool, especially if done right. I don't think Armorine works as an ongoing, but I could see occasional miniseries coming out. There are ways to give just about everyone what they want without saturating the field and, most importantly, breaking the budget to the point that VEI can't continue operations. More than anything, as a new company in a very difficult market amidst harsh financial times, it is my belief they will do best keeping things small in terms of # of books and it appears these guys know that. I'm not too worried. What I am, is very interested in seeing what they do with the relaunch.

MoonChild · Post by **MoonChild** » Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 am

First:
BloodShot [with Rai, Eternal Warrior, Ninjak intro/crossover]
Eternal Warrior [with Archer & Armstrong, Timewalker & Rai intro/crossover]
X-O [with Armorines & Harbinger intro/crossover]
Harbinger

Then:
Rai
Archer & Armstrong
Shadowman [with Doctor Mirage intro crossover]
Quantum & Woody [Ongoing comic spoof through out the Valiant Universe]

Then:
[Possible Mini's?]
Doctor Mirage
Time Walker [I insist! It could be key if done right and if there's no lost land he could really be the link between times, unlike ew & armstrong who live through both times but dont time travel]
Ninjak
New Character/Series

[List does not include crossover series like Unity, that should be a given]

superman-prime · Post by **superman-prime** » Thu Jul 28, 2011 11:03 am

4 starters as stated is great then try 6 issue minis to see if new series would hold

hotwings1979 · Post by **hotwings1979** » Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:28 pm

I would like to see them start off with:

Rai
Eternal Warrior (find a way to tie the brothers into this and eventually spin it off into multiple books).
Shadowman
X-O (I think the harbinger tie-in is pretty cool)

I'd be interested in seeing some new titles and my suggestions are:
Nettie: Sr. Voodoo Warrior Princess
Torqued Off: A story about parental abandonment issues. (on a serious note you could find a way to replace Magnus with him, provided you can bring him back to life. The Doctor (Who) has done it to Rory at least once).
Spider Aliens: I'd like to see a book told from the villains perspective. This could have a nice tie in with X-O.

Sven · Post by **Sven** » Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:32 pm

hotwings1979 wrote:Spider Aliens: I'd like to see a book told from the villains perspective. This could have a nice tie in with X-O.

Starring yours truly!

dave · Post by **dave** » Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:59 pm

I'm kinda wondering if Harbinger is going to make the cut. It seems logical if for no other reason than how easily Harada fits there, but otherwise it was easily the weakest of the core titles (after issue 10)

rygriffin333 · Post by **rygriffin333** » Thu Jul 28, 2011 2:27 pm

MoonChild wrote:First:
BloodShot [with Rai, Eternal Warrior, Ninjak intro/crossover]
Eternal Warrior [with Archer & Armstrong, Timewalker & Rai intro/crossover]
X-O [with Armorines & Harbinger intro/crossover]
Harbinger

Then:
Rai
Archer & Armstrong
Shadowman [with Doctor Mirage intro crossover]
Quantum & Woody [Ongoing comic spoof through out the Valiant Universe]

Then:
[Possible Mini's?]
Doctor Mirage
Time Walker [I insist! It could be key if done right and if there's no lost land he could really be the link between times, unlike ew & armstrong who live through both times but dont time travel]
Ninjak
New Character/Series

[List does not include crossover series like Unity, that should be a given]

I love this approach...round 1 blends the biggest properties with the best reach across the (previous) universe.

That said...I think scaling to 8 books even in Year 1 is suicide for a publisher in the current climate. One could even debate that 3 titles, not 4, would be the way to go initially. Course, the creators would have to get, ahem, creative, in the way they leverage guests in 2-3 titles to get a universe going.

Either way, I think it's definitely more about guest appearances as the means to rounding out the universe in 2012-2013, *not* >4 titles.

The LAST thing any of us want to see is a Dark Key redux...waited too long for this in the first place.

hulk181man · Post by **hulk181man** » Thu Jul 28, 2011 5:07 pm

Alright, I'm thinking outside the box and going with an alternative approach.

Nio
The Goat
Trinity Angels (T&A babeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! Now I'm thinking OF the box

)
X-O Bike O'War

dave · Post by **dave** » Thu Jul 28, 2011 6:23 pm

I really do like the idea of starting with ONE solid book. Set things up, take your time, tell the story and build from there. Introduce second book a bit later and have 4 titles going hopefully by year's end? (12 months later) Kinda the way V started in the first place isn't it?

400yrs · Post by **400yrs** » Thu Jul 28, 2011 7:04 pm

dave wrote:I really do like the idea of starting with ONE solid book. Set things up, take your time, tell the story and build from there. Introduce second book a bit later and have 4 titles going hopefully by year's end? (12 months later) Kinda the way V started in the first place isn't it?

I kind of like that approach.

I see alot of people going with A&A. I don't think a book like that would do well in the current market. Buddy books don't work. Q&W is probably the most successful (critically, not sales-wise) aside from a huge book like All Star B & R.

If they are going to try A&A at all, it needs to have a focus or it's going to flop. A funny book is cool for a few issues, but then it gets stale. Unless we are talking Groo. Cheese dip never gets old.

hotwings1979 · Post by **hotwings1979** » Thu Jul 28, 2011 7:16 pm

I think A&A was a good book but I liked the Eternal Warrior. I think if you start out there, get an affinity for the brothers and then spin it off, that's the way to go. It's a natural spin-off because you can build on the relationship between Gilad and Armstrong which is interesting and send them each on their merry way.

geocarr · Post by **geocarr** » Thu Jul 28, 2011 7:26 pm

hulk181man wrote:The Goat
Trinity Angels (T&A babeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! Now I'm thinking OF the box )

I like the way you think.

I think you and I would get along just great if we lived in the same area.

MoonChild · Post by **MoonChild** » Fri Jul 29, 2011 12:10 am

I think 4 to start is perfect unless they do 1 book that intro's the entire universe first.

SJS4 · Post by **SJS4** » Fri Jul 29, 2011 9:35 am

hotwings1979 wrote:I think A&A was a good book but I liked the Eternal Warrior. I think if you start out there, get an affinity for the brothers and then spin it off, that's the way to go. It's a natural spin-off because you can build on the relationship between Gilad and Armstrong which is interesting and send them each on their merry way.

I am in the process of re-reading all my old valiant titles (somewhat in order: Ie I read all the pre-unity stuff first, then Unity, and now I am reading the studd post-Unity but prior to Chaos Effect) and when I got to A&A, I absolutely loved the BWS issues, but the Mike Baron issues weren't very good (IMHO)...not to mention they actually seemed like very different "personalities" than the BWS A&A.

IMHO A&A has a ton of potential, but I can also see it being a huge bust. Not a lot of "in between" IMHO. I also go back to something I posted before...my impression of A&A was always that it was a "critical success" but that it never really sold in great numbers...even when it had BWS.

On the other hand, EW had some really great issues (BWS issues were probably at the top, but issues 1-4 were right behind, issue 11 was good, and 20-24 were solid. I haven't gotten to the post-Chaos effect issues, but I remember relaly enjoying some of the later issues with Paul Gulacy and especially Jackson (Butch) Guice. I think the character itself is just more adaptable to different writers, pencilers, etc...so it might be a safer bet than A&A right out of the gate.

We'll see if the new publishers agree though...off the top of my head i recall any interviews even mentioning EW as one of the "core" characters.

Daniel Jackson · Post by **Daniel Jackson** » Fri Jul 29, 2011 2:14 pm

MoonChild wrote:I think 4 to start is perfect unless they do 1 book that intro's the entire universe first.

Yeah, I would like to see a mini series introducing the new VU.

OmenSpirits.com · Post by **OmenSpirits.com** » Fri Jul 29, 2011 10:17 pm

you all are forgetting something.

What if Christopher Priest doesn't write Q&W?

and MD Bright doesn't do the art?

TWO very important factors I'd say.

OmenSpirits.com · Post by **OmenSpirits.com** » Fri Jul 29, 2011 11:20 pm

you all are forgetting something.

What if Christopher Priest doesn't write Q&Q?

and MD Bright doesn't do the art?

TWO very important factors I'd say.