Should New Valiant Use Replacements For Gold Key Characters?

rjrjr · Post by **rjrjr** » Sat Jul 23, 2011 12:49 am

BruceReville's suggestion about using Joshua Fireseed as a replacement for Turok got me thinking. Should the new Valiant try to introduce replacements for some of the missing Gold Key characters? For example, should there be a Solar equivalent in the new Valiant universe? How about a Magnus Robot Fighter replacement? A Turok equivalent?

I always saw Solar as Valiant's equivalent to Superman. The character always struck me as being too powerful however. I did like the idea that the character was grounded in science (more so than X-O Manowar) and thankfully the character had human flaws that prevented Solar from being written to exploit the power that Phil wielded. I do not think a Solar equivalent is needed in a new Valiant Universe. Dr. Mirage can be retooled to take Solar's place, but only if the character is significantly less powerful (or equally humanized so the power cannot be exploited.)

I like the idea of the new Valiant universe having a present and future storyline ongoing. Rai and PsiLords can be used to fill out that future storyline. Ivan, Gilad, and Aram being immortal can all have a role in the future storyline. I'm not sure a Magnus Robot Fighter equivalent would be required.

The biggest thing I saw Turok bringing to the original Valiant Universe was the concept of the Lost Land. Mechanically enhanced dinosaurs brought to the present time is not a very compelling concept to me (and is very cheesy if you think about it) and Turok the character without dinosaurs is not very interesting really. Turok residing in a Lost Land with dinosaurs is the right way to go with that character, but Valiant didn't really have that, so I'm not sure a Turok equivalent is required either.

Thoughts?

magnusr · Post by **magnusr** » Sat Jul 23, 2011 1:37 am

rjrjr wrote:BruceReville's suggestion about using Joshua Fireseed as a replacement for Turok got me thinking. Should the new Valiant try to introduce replacements for some of the missing Gold Key characters?

Phil is an established character that does not need to use the Solar name or costume. I want him in the new comics. Turok and Magnus are tougher to replace. Joshua and Russ do not have the same appeal to me. If their inclusion can support good stories in a shared universe, sure, but I think other characters can do that just as well. For the future related stories I think they should start with Rai and possibly introduce a Magnus-like character in that series.

/Magnus

leonmallett · Post by **leonmallett** » Sat Jul 23, 2011 8:51 am

Rather than knock-offs or tangling themselves in knots with substitutes, I hope VEI use some of their strongest concepts as cornerstones.

There is an array of very strong characters to build on.

xodacia81 · Post by **xodacia81** » Sat Jul 23, 2011 10:18 am

I'm with Jay and Leon. I don't think they are absolutes. That said, although I will miss the potential that Solar brought, I will not miss the trouble one can get into with characters that have (near)absolute power.

IanAlexavier · Post by **IanAlexavier** » Sat Jul 23, 2011 10:29 am

I sure wish Phil could be brought into the mix. I see potential for good stories with Phil.

Although I like Magnus as a character, there is no need for him.

Joshua is fine.. not necessary though.

Can they do it without these characters.. sure can! Even with these characters NOT being in DNV, I think I will always have my eye open to if/when they may be referred to. Will the new books refer to Unity at all? Will they refer to the Chaos Effect? Will Torque be mentioned? Will Magnus still be his father? Will there be a Rai in the future??

Lots of questions.. that dont really need answers but will be fun if they do.

Daniel Jackson · Post by **Daniel Jackson** » Sat Jul 23, 2011 11:24 am

The GK3 certainly were huge parts of the original VU and their loss is going to make it harder to regroup. It can be done without them, but I do feel it's going to be a tough mountain to climb.

I realize that the DH launch of the GK characters fizzled, but they were also missing some important elements that the VU contains. When the two are combined, they stand a much better chance of success.

wokuya · Post by **wokuya** » Sat Jul 23, 2011 12:39 pm

Lunar, Man of the Electron.

Sterling, Android Slayer.

See what I did there?

Shadow_Contact · Post by **Shadow_Contact** » Sat Jul 23, 2011 1:43 pm

I think I have to agree with magnusr, heck I agree with most of you. For the time being they need to focus on just good strong characters. If down the line they mention Unity or Chaos they can then make substitutes but there should be no hurry just build your core and maybe add a few fan winks from time to time, who knows maybe in a few years CM will realise it always helps to have characters in print and will be willing to deal for a much better price.

Daniel Jackson · Post by **Daniel Jackson** » Sat Jul 23, 2011 4:45 pm

wokuya wrote:Lunar, Man of the Electron.

Sterling, Android Slayer.

See what I did there?

Hahaha.....brilliant!

geocarr · Post by **geocarr** » Sat Jul 23, 2011 4:54 pm

Yeah, I really don't give a damn as long as they tell stories that are worth the price of the comic with decent or better art.

400yrs · Post by **400yrs** » Sat Jul 23, 2011 4:59 pm

Jay Tomio wrote:I still don't understand why anyone may think we need any of them. I don't even consider their absence a problem in the slightest.

I have no opinion either way, but there are no deal breakers here for me.

I agree with Jay. However, I'd go further to say that I'd rather not see Phil Soleski. He is just a whiny character who really has no past to him. He's just a whiny god. If I had to choose a god-like character, I'd rather see the Destroyer, but none of it is needed.

cplsimon · Post by **cplsimon** » Sat Jul 23, 2011 5:43 pm

Jay Tomio wrote:
400yrs wrote:
Jay Tomio wrote:I still don't understand why anyone may think we need any of them. I don't even consider their absence a problem in the slightest.

I have no opinion either way, but there are no deal breakers here for me.
I agree with Jay. However, I'd go further to say that I'd rather not see Phil Soleski. He is just a whiny character who really has no past to him. He's just a whiny god. If I had to choose a god-like character, I'd rather see the Destroyer, but none of it is needed.
I'm kind of that mind myself. If you can't have the true real deal, just move on. Would be a great first sign of claiming your own ground. Look, I don't mind some inside joke or stray dialogue speaking to the diehard base, but why even bother with anything more. The stable is full without them, I don't think we are lacking in characters and it's stuff to think about that you don't have to think about it.

The past stories were great involving those characters (I actually liked the concept of Turk) but it was the stories, not really the characters themselves IMHO. As amazing as I think Steel Nation and A&O were (2 of my all time favorite superhero arcs), thinking back on it, if I just had Rai and Harbinger, I'd consider that a solid foundation with X-O and A&A.

I think people sleep on Rai. A modern Rai book could kick major *SQUEE*.

I 2nd that

Blood of Heroes · Post by **Blood of Heroes** » Sat Jul 23, 2011 7:04 pm

Zaphod · Post by **Zaphod** » Sun Jul 24, 2011 3:38 am

Phil Seleski accidently created the original Valiant Universe?

how about Ivar stops the incident from happening.

Dr. Solar · Post by **Dr. Solar** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 10:28 am

The majority of people have no idea that Solar "created" the Valiant Universe. It is only us super Valiant geeks that even have a clue that happened.

The idea is kinda meaningless though, since Solar was in the Valiant universe before he "created" the valiant universe. Any universe that valiant published with Solar in it is by definition the Valiant universe. So Solar was in the Valiant universe, but then he created the Valiant universe? Huh?

No, they don't need them. It would be bad business, and bad creatively to include them.

StarBrand · Post by **StarBrand** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 11:04 am

magnusr wrote:
rjrjr wrote:BruceReville's suggestion about using Joshua Fireseed as a replacement for Turok got me thinking. Should the new Valiant try to introduce replacements for some of the missing Gold Key characters?
Phil is an established character that does not need to use the Solar name or costume. I want him in the new comics. /Magnus

I could not agree more, Magnus.

Dr. Solar · Post by **Dr. Solar** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 11:40 am

StarBrand wrote:
magnusr wrote:
rjrjr wrote:BruceReville's suggestion about using Joshua Fireseed as a replacement for Turok got me thinking. Should the new Valiant try to introduce replacements for some of the missing Gold Key characters?
Phil is an established character that does not need to use the Solar name or costume. I want him in the new comics. /Magnus
I could not agree more, Magnus.

I'm not a lawyer, but...

I think there may still be derivative work rights that might make something like this messy. That whole area of law seems to be a bit fuzzy, and currently being decided by some big cases.

dbngaa · Post by **dbngaa** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 11:51 am

If only there was a podcast that discussed topics such as derivative works in relation to certain Vailant/Gold Key properties...

xodacia81 · Post by **xodacia81** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:10 pm

Daniel Jackson wrote:
wokuya wrote:Lunar, Man of the Electron.

Sterling, Android Slayer.

See what I did there?
Hahaha.....brilliant!

Been hitting the Guiness, Gramps? (Don't have a cow, man!)

SJS4 · Post by **SJS4** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:28 pm

I'm actually not that familiar with Solar outside of the original Valiant series. Was Phil Seleski always Dr. Solar's alias? Or was that something that was unique to Valiant?

Personally I am fine if there is no GK characters or even an equivlanent. Solar was useful in that his origin was also the origin of the Valiant Universe, but if they are rebooting the Universe I don't think its absolutely necessary to have a Solar-like character. The Universe can just "be" if you know what I mean. IMHO there doesn't really need to be a "reason to be" for a superhero universe...it was just an interesting take way back when IMHO.

magnusr · Post by **magnusr** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:40 pm

SJS4 wrote:I'm actually not that familiar with Solar outside of the original Valiant series. Was Phil Seleski always Dr. Solar's alias? Or was that something that was unique to Valiant?

Totally unique for Valiant. Only connection is that Phil read Dr Solar as a kid and mimiced the costume.

Dr. Solar wrote:I think there may still be derivative work rights that might make something like this messy.

It should go back to the terms in Valiant's licencing contract for the GK characters which could say more or less anything. I can just hope that it is still possible to use Phil.

EDIT: This thread gives good indications: viewtopic.php?t=12403

/Magnus

xodacia81 · Post by **xodacia81** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:50 pm

I think some are worrying that VEI will become DC-lite. That isn't happening.

dave · Post by **dave** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 2:53 pm

They aren't needed. Since you don't know if you'll ever have the rights to them, I think it's best just to go on without them and never look back.

Remember Lot's wife.

X-O HoboJoe · Post by **X-O HoboJoe** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 3:21 pm

dave wrote:They aren't needed. Since you don't know if you'll ever have the rights to them, I think it's best just to go on without them and never look back.

Remember Lot's wife.

She wound up with a dry sense of humor?

dave · Post by **dave** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 3:58 pm

And then she was a salted.

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Should New Valiant Use Replacements For Gold Key Characters?

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