V-H-3?

iggy101us · Post by **iggy101us** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 10:10 am

I think it's a little pre-mature at this point given that we don't exactly if everything will be rebooted.

If things pick up Post-Unity or post Aric's awakening for example, VH4 isn't really VH4 because it includes some VH1.

If it is a complete reboot, then I would go with VH4.

ian_house · Post by **ian_house** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 10:18 am

Really?

slym2none · Post by **slym2none** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 11:59 pm

DNV, FTW

-slym

Chiclo · Post by **Chiclo** » Thu Jun 16, 2011 9:09 am

slym2none wrote:DNV, FTW

-slym

slym makes a good case. I am in for DNV.

Elveen · Post by **Elveen** » Thu Jun 16, 2011 12:52 pm

I like DNV or VEI.

Dr. Solar · Post by **Dr. Solar** » Thu Jun 16, 2011 1:20 pm

My vote is simply for Valiant.

Draco · Post by **Draco** » Thu Jun 16, 2011 1:28 pm

Regardless of what continuity they may choose, this is still the 4th attempt at a universe based on or around the same characters, VH4 is perfect.

iggy101us · Post by **iggy101us** » Thu Jun 16, 2011 1:32 pm

Dr. Solar wrote:My vote is simply for Valiant.

Just Valiant

Johnseye · Post by **Johnseye** » Thu Jun 16, 2011 1:53 pm

wrunow wrote:I say we go with just "VEI". If we have Sub categories at some point, like "Pre-Unity", or "VEI 1", that means things are rolling and we have some sort of a real universe and it's all good.

I think there has been enough "time" and separation to not label the the new Valiant Universe in context with what came before.

Johnseye · Post by **Johnseye** » Thu Jun 16, 2011 4:38 pm

Jay Tomio wrote:Time is not absolute.

TINA?

dino · Post by **dino** » Thu Jun 16, 2011 9:26 pm

iggy101us wrote:
Dr. Solar wrote:My vote is simply for Valiant.
Just Valiant

My vote goes here too

Blood of Heroes · Post by **Blood of Heroes** » Thu Jun 16, 2011 9:32 pm

dino wrote:
iggy101us wrote:
Dr. Solar wrote:My vote is simply for Valiant.
Just Valiant
My vote goes here too

greg · Post by **greg** » Thu Jun 16, 2011 9:38 pm

dino wrote:
iggy101us wrote:
Dr. Solar wrote:My vote is simply for Valiant.
Just Valiant
My vote goes here too

Fanboy375 · Post by **Fanboy375** » Thu Jun 16, 2011 9:56 pm

I hope the lack of artists and writers in the DC reboot is good for Valiant. I would love to see Warren Ellis on Harbinger!

At least DC got Rob L!!! LOL

Elveen · Post by **Elveen** » Thu Jun 16, 2011 10:57 pm

dino wrote:
iggy101us wrote:
Dr. Solar wrote:My vote is simply for Valiant.
Just Valiant
My vote goes here too

Well there you have it.

dave · Post by **dave** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 9:22 am

xodacia81 · Post by **xodacia81** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 9:26 am

Fanboy375 wrote:I hope the lack of artists and writers in the DC reboot is good for Valiant. I would love to see Warren Ellis on Harbinger!

At least DC got Rob L!!! LOL

If DC bleeds more talent and makes cuts with "contract" players, I'd love to see guys like Mankhe and Reis on the books. Of course, I'd also like to see guys like H.M.Baker, Scott Benefiel and Matt Haley get wider exposure, too. Not sure what they've been up to.

Oh, and...VALIANT it is.

raymondsolar · Post by **raymondsolar** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 10:09 pm

I don't wish to rain on the relaunch parade, and I really hope that it succeeds, but I was thinking that if Dark Horse and Shooter couldn't sell a respectable number of books with the core three Gold Key/Valiant Heroes, (Magnus, Solar, and Turok), then how does Dino and company hope to sell respectable numbers on the secondary line of characters? Just sayin'. When they print them I'll buy them though and give them a chance.

xodacia81 · Post by **xodacia81** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 10:43 pm

raymondsolar wrote:I don't wish to rain on the relaunch parade, and I really hope that it succeeds, but I was thinking that if Dark Horse and Shooter couldn't sell a respectable number of books with the core three Gold Key/Valiant Heroes, (Magnus, Solar, and Turok), then how does Dino and company hope to sell respectable numbers on the secondary line of characters? Just sayin'. When they print them I'll buy them though and give them a chance.

That's just it. The characters owned by VEI are not a "Secondary" line, if only because Solar, Magnus and Turok-as done at Dark Horse-were in no way related to what went on 20 years ago or what will happen next year. Were Turok, Magnus and Solar 3 high-profile books in the day? Yep. Were they the "first tier"? It's arguable, along with XO, Bloodshot/Rai, Harbinger, EW/A&A and Shadowman. The "secondary line" would be pretty much everyone else. I think a line centered around the books I mentioned above, augmented by a select few others, would have as good a chance as any.

The other thing to consider is the measurement of success in the current market is different from what it used to be. The rubric has changed and it's not going to reverse itself any time soon.

greg · Post by **greg** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 10:54 pm

Elveen wrote:
dino wrote:
iggy101us wrote:
Dr. Solar wrote:My vote is simply for Valiant.
Just Valiant
My vote goes here too
Well there you have it.

To expand a bit on this topic... we could use:
VALIANT (1991-1996)
Acclaim (1997-2001)
Valiant (2012...)

... and just forget the silly VH music channels.

raymondsolar · Post by **raymondsolar** » Sat Jun 18, 2011 12:22 am

xodacia81 wrote:
raymondsolar wrote:I don't wish to rain on the relaunch parade, and I really hope that it succeeds, but I was thinking that if Dark Horse and Shooter couldn't sell a respectable number of books with the core three Gold Key/Valiant Heroes, (Magnus, Solar, and Turok), then how does Dino and company hope to sell respectable numbers on the secondary line of characters? Just sayin'. When they print them I'll buy them though and give them a chance.
That's just it. The characters owned by VEI are not a "Secondary" line, if only because Solar, Magnus and Turok-as done at Dark Horse-were in no way related to what went on 20 years ago or what will happen next year. Were Turok, Magnus and Solar 3 high-profile books in the day? Yep. Were they the "first tier"? It's arguable, along with XO, Bloodshot/Rai, Harbinger, EW/A&A and Shadowman. The "secondary line" would be pretty much everyone else. I think a line centered around the books I mentioned above, augmented by a select few others, would have as good a chance as any.

The other thing to consider is the measurement of success in the current market is different from what it used to be. The rubric has changed and it's not going to reverse itself any time soon.

All I was saying is that if a reboot of the three core characters of the original Valiant Universe were not successful, then I shudder to think of what the sales numbers would be like on VEI's relaunch going forward. I live in PA and stood outside the Comic Swap in State College, PA, and asked about 500 customers after the news of Valiant's relaunch had been released how they felt about the news. I was met with gazes similar to those of a deer staring at the headlights of an oncoming vehicle. Most I spoke to did not know what I was talking about or did not seem to care. The few who did remember the original Valiant line stated that if Magnus and Solar were not involved they were not interested.

Johnseye · Post by **Johnseye** » Sat Jun 18, 2011 12:24 am

xodacia81 wrote:
raymondsolar wrote:I don't wish to rain on the relaunch parade, and I really hope that it succeeds, but I was thinking that if Dark Horse and Shooter couldn't sell a respectable number of books with the core three Gold Key/Valiant Heroes, (Magnus, Solar, and Turok), then how does Dino and company hope to sell respectable numbers on the secondary line of characters? Just sayin'. When they print them I'll buy them though and give them a chance.
That's just it. The characters owned by VEI are not a "Secondary" line, if only because Solar, Magnus and Turok-as done at Dark Horse-were in no way related to what went on 20 years ago or what will happen next year. Were Turok, Magnus and Solar 3 high-profile books in the day? Yep. Were they the "first tier"? It's arguable, along with XO, Bloodshot/Rai, Harbinger, EW/A&A and Shadowman. The "secondary line" would be pretty much everyone else. I think a line centered around the books I mentioned above, augmented by a select few others, would have as good a chance as any.

The other thing to consider is the measurement of success in the current market is different from what it used to be. The rubric has changed and it's not going to reverse itself any time soon.

It will come down to a few things. How well the books are marketed or publicized and the quality of the art and stories. If those things are done right then Valiant can build momentum again.

If and when that happens they need to keep things consistent, build stamina for a long essentially never ending story line. Oh and not sell themselves to a video game company.

Also, remember that Valiant is not Dark Horse. The branding or image of a comic book is a very powerful thing. Valiant has a good foundation as a brand to build from. It doesn't matter what characters are brought back, it's how they are presented that will determine if they have mass market appeal.

wrunow · Post by **wrunow** » Sat Jun 18, 2011 8:47 am

raymondsolar wrote:
xodacia81 wrote:
raymondsolar wrote:I don't wish to rain on the relaunch parade, and I really hope that it succeeds, but I was thinking that if Dark Horse and Shooter couldn't sell a respectable number of books with the core three Gold Key/Valiant Heroes, (Magnus, Solar, and Turok), then how does Dino and company hope to sell respectable numbers on the secondary line of characters? Just sayin'. When they print them I'll buy them though and give them a chance.
That's just it. The characters owned by VEI are not a "Secondary" line, if only because Solar, Magnus and Turok-as done at Dark Horse-were in no way related to what went on 20 years ago or what will happen next year. Were Turok, Magnus and Solar 3 high-profile books in the day? Yep. Were they the "first tier"? It's arguable, along with XO, Bloodshot/Rai, Harbinger, EW/A&A and Shadowman. The "secondary line" would be pretty much everyone else. I think a line centered around the books I mentioned above, augmented by a select few others, would have as good a chance as any.

The other thing to consider is the measurement of success in the current market is different from what it used to be. The rubric has changed and it's not going to reverse itself any time soon.
All I was saying is that if a reboot of the three core characters of the original Valiant Universe were not successful, then I shudder to think of what the sales numbers would be like on VEI's relaunch going forward. I live in PA and stood outside the Comic Swap in State College, PA, and asked about 500 customers after the news of Valiant's relaunch had been released how they felt about the news. I was met with gazes similar to those of a deer staring at the headlights of an oncoming vehicle. Most I spoke to did not know what I was talking about or did not seem to care. The few who did remember the original Valiant line stated that if Magnus and Solar were not involved they were not interested.

I just have a few things to comment here.

First, Shooter's work on Steel Nation, Alpha and Omega, and probably Children of the Eighth Day was done in his prime as a creator and is probably the best work of his career and probably better than any of the stuff that Stan Lee did in the 60's. I think that most people who work for someone else or a large company or something always have a plan in the back of their mind that "if this was mine, and I didn't have to justify my methods and means to a boss, this is how I would do it". Those stories and how they were marketed were that for Shooter. A lot of fans expected stories on that level with DH, and in my opinion, because the stories were just "good" they walked away. I think hiring Shooter was a mistake by DH personally, and, VEI is and was better off without him, the legacy, and the overblown epectations for his work. Also, he didn't have Layton and BWS there to watch his back as far as the artwork was concerned. After seeing the DH art, I don't think we can underestimate that. These guys were the perfect creative team for comic fans born in 60's and 70's, not so much today as the 13-25 yo comic fan has been raised with "Image" style art.

Secondly, once VALIANT hit it's stride, Harbinger, XO, EW, A+A, and maybe Shadowman were the equal or better than Solar and Magnus. I personally wasn't a big Magnus fan, but I liked Solar a lot. When you really think of it, VEI rebooting their own original characters now has more in common with what Shooter did with the GK characters in 1991 than what Shooter tried to do with DH this year. I think the VALIANT characters are as good or better than the GK characters at this time and there's a lot more of a cohesive group of titles to work with vs. just a bunch of old characters that have been rebooted, reread, and reprinted for years in one way or another. There's room in the market for a start up by young guys with fresh ideas and new contemporary stories to tell .

dhudson1 · Post by **dhudson1** » Sat Jun 18, 2011 8:54 am

I still say the biggest reason the GK revival did not work had little to do with art and story, and more to do with the lateness of the books. O way to build momentum.

400yrs · Post by **400yrs** » Sat Jun 18, 2011 9:39 am

Jay Tomio wrote: When the first valiant comic comes out, I need to be listening to the 4-5 podcasts I listen to and hearing HYPE and EXCITEMENT, not "it's aiiight", which is what GK got.

Our first taste of VALIANT? *SQUEE* better be going down.

Hell, I don't think the Only The Valiant guys even talked about the GK books for more than 15 minutes. That tells you there is no excitement when a podcast focused on Valiant didn't even bother to talk about them and probably didn't even read all of them.

I agree with wrunow's comments about Jim Shooter. He needed the other guys to make appealing comics.