Thinking about what books will matter to Valiant 2012...

[Daniel Jackson]

If it's done right, there is room for both.

[Knightt]

If it's done right, there is room for both.

WHY even combine the universes ?

[cplsimon]

I agree with Knightt. Perfect moment to start from scratch. I think some acclaim books could be Key books in The new universe. Depending on which way the continuity goes from here. I really think they will introduce Quantam and woody. I would not mind Leroi being A Shadowman, but Jack should be The shadowman. Make mine Jack.

[geocarr]

If it's done right, there is room for both.

WHY even combine the universes ?

How could you possibly even briefly consider leaving out Quantum & Woody, and MOST IMPORTANTLY the Goat?!?
My friend, have you read these books?

[Heath]

I hope we see more Quantum & Woody by the original team of Priest and Bright. But I don't think they would fit in with the Valiant universe. I like the idea that, in the Valiant universe, they are a comic book or cartoon or some such. That would free them from Valiant continuity and style. And Vincent Van Goat / LOSH crossover would be perfectly fine.

[kevinbastos]

If Q & W are included - they could go across that line and the fourth wall - sorta like Deadpool did some of the time - until he got WAY too much everywhere-ness.

It would be foolish for the 'NEW-new Valiant' to ignore Q & W - certainly the most acclaimed (pun intended) comic in the second - second and a half - versions of the universes.

Weren't they the highest selling?

Funny. I think most second-and-a-half versions of the books - Shadowman, Armorines, were better than the second versions (remember X-O Fan with Armorines), and Q&W were at least comparable.

THOSE versions I'd keep.

What do I know, of course.

I'm just hoping to like it - but preparing for disappointment (Star Wars, last Harry Potter, etc.)

I generally find I'm happiest when I have low expectations.

[Daniel Jackson]

If it's done right, there is room for both.

WHY even combine the universes ?

I think that might get a tad confusing to have two separate universes, especially in certain cases. For instance, I would like to see Mike LeRoi and the Deadside premise woven into the Shadowman continuity. There are other examples too, but the point is they can take what is good from both and make an exciting new VU. As we've talked about in the last couple of days, the comic landscape is changing. I'm not sure that sticking to the exact formula Shooter laid down in the beginning would work in the present day. Some things are probably going to have to change.

[Daniel Jackson]

Funny. I think most second-and-a-half versions of the books - Shadowman, Armorines, were better than the second versions (remember X-O Fan with Armorines), and Q&W were at least comparable.

THOSE versions I'd keep.

Same here. I would also have to say that about the Acclaim Dr. Mirage premise (even though it was never published). It sounded far more interesting than what we got in the original VU.

[kevinbastos]

I would also have to say that about the Acclaim Dr. Mirage premise (even though it was never published). It sounded far more interesting than what we got in the original VU.

Any links to the Dr. Mirage premise? Or an idea of what it was?

Sorry - newbie

[Daniel Jackson]

I would also have to say that about the Acclaim Dr. Mirage premise (even though it was never published). It sounded far more interesting than what we got in the original VU.

Any links to the Dr. Mirage premise? Or an idea of what it was?

Sorry - newbie

Here ya go.

The original art links don't work, but luckily sonicdan saved them and now they are on the last page of the thread.

[kevinbastos]

Excellent. Love it.

[myron]

I would also have to say that about the Acclaim Dr. Mirage premise (even though it was never published). It sounded far more interesting than what we got in the original VU.

Any links to the Dr. Mirage premise? Or an idea of what it was?

Sorry - newbie

Here ya go.

The original art links don't work, but luckily sonicdan saved them and now they are on the last page of the thread.

nice get DJ..just bumped it up in the art gallery...

[Daniel Jackson]

I would also have to say that about the Acclaim Dr. Mirage premise (even though it was never published). It sounded far more interesting than what we got in the original VU.

Any links to the Dr. Mirage premise? Or an idea of what it was?

Sorry - newbie

Here ya go.

The original art links don't work, but luckily sonicdan saved them and now they are on the last page of the thread.

nice get DJ..just bumped it up in the art gallery...

Good idea, myron.

[xodacia81]

If they use the Acclaim version of Shadowman, that might turn me off of the whole line.

I did not like or "get" Acclaim's Shadowman

I think they could keep elements of it, particularly from the Clermont/Abnett & Lanning period. IE, the slightly darker portrayl of Vodou, as well as looking at it as more than "magic" but a religion/way of life.

[Heath]

If they use the Acclaim version of Shadowman instead of the Valiant version, I will probably not get any of the new Valiant books. Not out of rage or protest, but out of lack of interest. I have no interest in bringing Acclaim back. I want Valiant back.

[xodacia81]

If they use the Acclaim version of Shadowman instead of the Valiant version, I will probably not get any of the new Valiant books. Not out of rage or protest, but out of lack of interest. I have no interest in bringing Acclaim back. I want Valiant back.

As do I. However, I think the few things that were good with Acclaim were pretty damn good and could be used to some degree. Examples? Quantum & Woody, "aspects" of Shadowman-like the ones I mentioned earlier-and Colin King as a James Bond type more than an outright ninja. I didn't like XO, but I thought the idea of the XO suit in that was almost as interesting as The Good Skin and while I don't want it to come back, I would like to see the NEW ideas go for broke. I want the VU back and I want it augmented with the best of everything. If that means 3% of Acclaim-although not NIO or the XO suit from v 2-then so much the better.

[Burrito Boy]

As long as Gunny Lewis gets his job back, I'll be happy.

[Heath]

I agree that there was some decent Acclaim stuff. I wouldn't object to the Ninjak change you mentioned. And I kinda liked Troublemakers and wouldn't mind seeing them integrated somehow. Quantum & Woody has been discussed already. But when it comes to Shadowman, I'm very biased. The Valiant/Bob Hall run of Shadowman is my favorite run of comics. Ever. The Acclaim version was a travesty and I don't want to bring that back. I don't expect others to have the same opinion, but that's where I am on this topic. I reserve the right to change my opinion in the future too.

[Daniel Jackson]

I agree that there was some decent Acclaim stuff. I wouldn't object to the Ninjak change you mentioned. And I kinda liked Troublemakers and wouldn't mind seeing them integrated somehow. Quantum & Woody has been discussed already. But when it comes to Shadowman, I'm very biased. The Valiant/Bob Hall run of Shadowman is my favorite run of comics. Ever. The Acclaim version was a travesty and I don't want to bring that back. I don't expect others to have the same opinion, but that's where I am on this topic. I reserve the right to change my opinion in the future too.

I liked Bob's version of Shadowman, but I thought the premise was getting a little stale, to tell you the truth. It also botherd me that his death was always looming overhead and we were going to be getting a new Shadowman after 1999. I agree that the first version of Acclaim's Shadowman was awful, but when they retooled the character after issue 16, I started to enjoy the series right up until the end of the V3 run. They wouldn't have to get rid of Jack or Max for that matter. I think there is room enough for all three.

[xodacia81]

I agree that there was some decent Acclaim stuff. I wouldn't object to the Ninjak change you mentioned. And I kinda liked Troublemakers and wouldn't mind seeing them integrated somehow. Quantum & Woody has been discussed already. But when it comes to Shadowman, I'm very biased. The Valiant/Bob Hall run of Shadowman is my favorite run of comics. Ever. The Acclaim version was a travesty and I don't want to bring that back. I don't expect others to have the same opinion, but that's where I am on this topic. I reserve the right to change my opinion in the future too.

I liked Bob's version of Shadowman, but I thought the premise was getting a little stale, to tell you the truth. It also botherd me that his death was always looming overhead and we were going to be getting a new Shadowman after 1999. I agree that the first version of Acclaim's Shadowman was awful, but when they retooled the character after issue 16, I started to enjoy the series right up until the end of the V3 run. They wouldn't have to get rid of Jack or Max for that matter. I think there is room enough for all three.

DJ, that's EXACTLY what I was saying. I think what I'd like is to see Bob Hall return to Shadowman, but to add in the elements that made issues 16-21 and v3 so good. Namely, a serious treatement of Voudo as part of the culture of New Orleans and the region, as part of the backdrop to the story. I think a 12-36 issue maxi-series would be awesome.

[Daniel Jackson]

I agree that there was some decent Acclaim stuff. I wouldn't object to the Ninjak change you mentioned. And I kinda liked Troublemakers and wouldn't mind seeing them integrated somehow. Quantum & Woody has been discussed already. But when it comes to Shadowman, I'm very biased. The Valiant/Bob Hall run of Shadowman is my favorite run of comics. Ever. The Acclaim version was a travesty and I don't want to bring that back. I don't expect others to have the same opinion, but that's where I am on this topic. I reserve the right to change my opinion in the future too.

I liked Bob's version of Shadowman, but I thought the premise was getting a little stale, to tell you the truth. It also botherd me that his death was always looming overhead and we were going to be getting a new Shadowman after 1999. I agree that the first version of Acclaim's Shadowman was awful, but when they retooled the character after issue 16, I started to enjoy the series right up until the end of the V3 run. They wouldn't have to get rid of Jack or Max for that matter. I think there is room enough for all three.

DJ, that's EXACTLY what I was saying. I think what I'd like is to see Bob Hall return to Shadowman, but to add in the elements that made issues 16-21 and v3 so good. Namely, a serious treatement of Voudo as part of the culture of New Orleans and the region, as part of the backdrop to the story. I think a 12-36 issue maxi-series would be awesome.

Sounds good to me.

Dino, make it so....

[dhudson1]

The problem with Quantum and Woody, and the Troublemakers is, while they may have been entertaining, they would not fit in with the core concept of Valiant that made it memorable. Although dealing with characters with powers, the best of Valiant tried to show what the real world would be like if these "superheroes" were real.

[kevinbastos]

I agree that there was some decent Acclaim stuff. I wouldn't object to the Ninjak change you mentioned. And I kinda liked Troublemakers and wouldn't mind seeing them integrated somehow. Quantum & Woody has been discussed already. But when it comes to Shadowman, I'm very biased. The Valiant/Bob Hall run of Shadowman is my favorite run of comics. Ever. The Acclaim version was a travesty and I don't want to bring that back. I don't expect others to have the same opinion, but that's where I am on this topic. I reserve the right to change my opinion in the future too.

I liked Bob's version of Shadowman, but I thought the premise was getting a little stale, to tell you the truth. It also botherd me that his death was always looming overhead and we were going to be getting a new Shadowman after 1999. I agree that the first version of Acclaim's Shadowman was awful, but when they retooled the character after issue 16, I started to enjoy the series right up until the end of the V3 run. They wouldn't have to get rid of Jack or Max for that matter. I think there is room enough for all three.

DJ, that's EXACTLY what I was saying. I think what I'd like is to see Bob Hall return to Shadowman, but to add in the elements that made issues 16-21 and v3 so good. Namely, a serious treatement of Voudo as part of the culture of New Orleans and the region, as part of the backdrop to the story. I think a 12-36 issue maxi-series would be awesome.

Sounds good to me.

Dino, make it so....

Me, too. I can remember reading the Acclaim Shadowman (1-15), and thinking... What? Why are they hyping THIS garbage?

[Daniel Jackson]

I agree that there was some decent Acclaim stuff. I wouldn't object to the Ninjak change you mentioned. And I kinda liked Troublemakers and wouldn't mind seeing them integrated somehow. Quantum & Woody has been discussed already. But when it comes to Shadowman, I'm very biased. The Valiant/Bob Hall run of Shadowman is my favorite run of comics. Ever. The Acclaim version was a travesty and I don't want to bring that back. I don't expect others to have the same opinion, but that's where I am on this topic. I reserve the right to change my opinion in the future too.

I liked Bob's version of Shadowman, but I thought the premise was getting a little stale, to tell you the truth. It also botherd me that his death was always looming overhead and we were going to be getting a new Shadowman after 1999. I agree that the first version of Acclaim's Shadowman was awful, but when they retooled the character after issue 16, I started to enjoy the series right up until the end of the V3 run. They wouldn't have to get rid of Jack or Max for that matter. I think there is room enough for all three.

DJ, that's EXACTLY what I was saying. I think what I'd like is to see Bob Hall return to Shadowman, but to add in the elements that made issues 16-21 and v3 so good. Namely, a serious treatement of Voudo as part of the culture of New Orleans and the region, as part of the backdrop to the story. I think a 12-36 issue maxi-series would be awesome.

Sounds good to me.

Dino, make it so....

Me, too. I can remember reading the Acclaim Shadowman (1-15), and thinking... What? Why are they hyping THIS garbage?

They didn't do themselves any favors by making it a mature themed book, that's for sure. It was way too dark and depressing to make it in the long haul.

[IanAlexavier]

They didn't do themselves any favors by making it a mature themed book, that's for sure. It was way too dark and depressing to make it in the long haul.

Exactly! I sure hope DNV sticks with a "reading for (nearly) all ages" type of formula


Now that I said THAT I will hope that Q&W would be given a chance. I think it was a neat concept of a book. I also think that the powerband technology could have a Spider Alien origin.