Why Were So Many Early Image Comics Late?

xodacia81 · Post by **xodacia81** » Sun Oct 03, 2010 1:39 pm

Cyberstrike wrote:
xodacia81 wrote:
Cyberstrike wrote:Some of it was no editors, others were the fact that these guys had to learn the whole comic book business on the fly stuff like printing, disturbers, color process, paying other people (writers, inkers, colorists, letterers, lawyers, publicity, and etc), some like Liefeld at the time was still doing work for Marvel when Youngblood #1 came out.

It's one thing when you work for Marvel or DC and all you have to is one or two jobs on a book, it's quite another when you have to do a whole book by yourself.

Jim Valentino and Erik Larsen made the best effort to get their books out on time when Image started.
I've always looked at it as the biggest problem being Leifeld and the fact that he has never handled himself as though he were a real pro.
I'm not trying to make any excuses for him, just stating something that I remembered.

Didn't take it as excuses. I had forgotten he was still working for Marvel, but I think that the problem with Leifeld has always been how he is too interested in promoting himself to the point of ignoring the work he is supposed to be finishing.

RJMooreII · Post by **RJMooreII** » Sun Oct 03, 2010 1:56 pm

Didn't take it as excuses. I had forgotten he was still working for Marvel, but I think that the problem with Leifeld has always been how he is too interested in promoting himself to the point of ignoring the work he is supposed to be finishing.

That's the impression I got. However, I do kind of wish a Youngblood movie starring Tom Cruise had come out in the mid-90's. It would have either been cool or hilariously bad.

xodacia81 · Post by **xodacia81** » Sun Oct 03, 2010 2:00 pm

RJMooreII wrote:
Didn't take it as excuses. I had forgotten he was still working for Marvel, but I think that the problem with Leifeld has always been how he is too interested in promoting himself to the point of ignoring the work he is supposed to be finishing.
That's the impression I got. However, I do kind of wish a Youngblood movie starring Tom Cruise had come out in the mid-90's. It would have either been cool or hilariously bad.

My bet is on hilariously bad. Maybe Cruise's career would have had a slide earlier, if that had come out back then.

RJMooreII · Post by **RJMooreII** » Sun Oct 03, 2010 2:03 pm

He has to help. Because he knows. He's the only one that can help.

It's like WSSSHHH!

HAHAHAHA!

Larsen also does a great job with his letters pages. Sometimes it's 5 pages long, and half of it is just him answering questions.

IMJ · Post by **IMJ** » Mon Oct 04, 2010 6:32 pm

Isn't Larson pretty much the only guy left from Image proper? Like... the only guy on many levels: Still doing the book he started, still at "!MAGE", so on and so forth?

xodacia81 · Post by **xodacia81** » Mon Oct 04, 2010 6:34 pm

IMJ wrote:Isn't Larson pretty much the only guy left from Image proper? Like... the only guy on many levels: Still doing the book he started, still at "!MAGE", so on and so forth?

According to Wikipedia(hah hah):

Image originally consisted of six studios:

Extreme Studios, owned by Rob Liefeld
Highbrow Entertainment, owned by Erik Larsen
ShadowLine, owned by Jim Valentino
Todd McFarlane Productions, owned by Todd McFarlane
Top Cow Productions, owned by Marc Silvestri
Wildstorm Productions, owned by Jim Lee

Draco · Post by **Draco** » Mon Oct 04, 2010 6:55 pm

xodacia81 wrote:
IMJ wrote:Isn't Larson pretty much the only guy left from Image proper? Like... the only guy on many levels: Still doing the book he started, still at "!MAGE", so on and so forth?

According to Wikipedia(hah hah):

Image originally consisted of six studios:

Extreme Studios, owned by Rob Liefeld
Highbrow Entertainment, owned by Erik Larsen
ShadowLine, owned by Jim Valentino
Todd McFarlane Productions, owned by Todd McFarlane
Top Cow Productions, owned by Marc Silvestri
Wildstorm Productions, owned by Jim Lee

So Extreme Studios is thankfully no more, though Rob of course is still banging them out ( quote your heart out

Erik is still doing it, but pretty much just the main title now, which is a shame as his other books within the SD universe were always outstanding too.

I like Jim Valentino, but most of his books have been really week since day one :/

Mcfarlane = Overhyped and lacking in anything other than visual purtyness.

Top cow= Purty, but seriously lacking in pretty much all storytelling aspects much like McFarlame

WS= R.I.P

and the winner is Erik Larsen

RJMooreII · Post by **RJMooreII** » Mon Oct 04, 2010 6:59 pm

WS= R.I.P

Actually, DC owns Wildstorm and plans on putting out some titles with the characters from it. And Jim Lee works for DC most of the time these days.

xodacia81 · Post by **xodacia81** » Mon Oct 04, 2010 7:01 pm

RJMooreII wrote:
WS= R.I.P
Actually, DC owns Wildstorm and plans on putting out some titles with the characters from it. And Jim Lee works for DC most of the time these days.

Jim Lee is co-Publisher of DC, so I'd say he pretty much always works there

JohnnyRnR · Post by **JohnnyRnR** » Mon Oct 04, 2010 7:04 pm

RJMooreII wrote:For the first, oh, six years or so it was out it had a lot of information sidebars, casting calls and such that was interesting. They had industry information, but that's irrelevant now because of the internet. And they actually got real artists to do full color spreads.

Try rereading some old ones, those are some rose-tinted memories.

JohnnyRnR · Post by **JohnnyRnR** » Mon Oct 04, 2010 7:07 pm

xodacia81 wrote: Interesting point. That might be a slightly better ratio than Sim for Cerebus. Considering how busy Larsen has been, 164 issues at an average of 9 per year isn't bad at all.

IIRC, once Cerebus went monthly, it was late twice, ever.

xodacia81 · Post by **xodacia81** » Mon Oct 04, 2010 7:09 pm

JohnnyRnR wrote:
xodacia81 wrote: Interesting point. That might be a slightly better ratio than Sim for Cerebus. Considering how busy Larsen has been, 164 issues at an average of 9 per year isn't bad at all.
IIRC, once Cerebus went monthly, it was late twice, ever.

Cool. The book I'm currently in awe of never being late is Fables. The only time it has come close to being "late" is when Willingham actively shifted the release date by 2 weeks in order to allow himself more time to work on the book. I think this was just after "The Crossover". This change was announced in advance so people weren't taken unawares.

RJMooreII · Post by **RJMooreII** » Mon Oct 04, 2010 7:17 pm

xodacia81 wrote:
RJMooreII wrote:
WS= R.I.P
Actually, DC owns Wildstorm and plans on putting out some titles with the characters from it. And Jim Lee works for DC most of the time these days.
Jim Lee is co-Publisher of DC, so I'd say he pretty much always works there

Well, yeah, he has a full-time job there; I just mean that 100% of his output isn't for DC.

JohnnyRnR · Post by **JohnnyRnR** » Mon Oct 04, 2010 7:20 pm

RJMooreII wrote:
WS= R.I.P
Actually, DC owns Wildstorm and plans on putting out some titles with the characters from it. And Jim Lee works for DC most of the time these days.

DC owns them (now, though previously they were a branch of Image), and still closed the line.

And yes, Larsen was publisher of Image 2004-2008.

Also, Kirkman is the only change in roster of original partners since Portacio withdrew.

RJMooreII · Post by **RJMooreII** » Mon Oct 04, 2010 7:23 pm

Ah, I hadn't read that DC had closed the Wildstorm imprint. That's too bad, their Mr. Majestic series was better than Superman for a couple years.
However, Lee has said that there still will be (former) Wildstorm properties published - under the DC imprint.

Draco · Post by **Draco** » Mon Oct 04, 2010 7:25 pm

RJMooreII wrote:
WS= R.I.P
Actually, DC owns Wildstorm and plans on putting out some titles with the characters from it. And Jim Lee works for DC most of the time these days.

Ws itself though is dead.

JohnnyRnR · Post by **JohnnyRnR** » Mon Oct 04, 2010 7:26 pm

RJMooreII wrote: Well, yeah, he has a full-time job there; I just mean that 100% of his output isn't for DC.

Any examples? I'm not aware of any.

RJMooreII · Post by **RJMooreII** » Mon Oct 04, 2010 7:34 pm

JohnnyRnR wrote:
RJMooreII wrote: Well, yeah, he has a full-time job there; I just mean that 100% of his output isn't for DC.
Any examples? I'm not aware of any.

Some album work for Daughtry and Image United covers in 2009.
Todd McFarlane says although only 2 (of 6) issues of Image United have been published so far, he has a stack of drawings by Jim and other guys on his desk.

JohnnyRnR · Post by **JohnnyRnR** » Mon Oct 04, 2010 7:40 pm

Okay, so nothing since Feb 2010, when he became co-publisher of DC.

Draco · Post by **Draco** » Mon Oct 04, 2010 7:40 pm

RJMooreII wrote:
JohnnyRnR wrote:
RJMooreII wrote: Well, yeah, he has a full-time job there; I just mean that 100% of his output isn't for DC.
Any examples? I'm not aware of any.
Some album work for Daughtry and Image United covers in 2009.
Todd McFarlane says although only 2 (of 6) issues of Image United have been published so far, he has a stack of drawings by Jim and other guys on his desk.

I ranted heavily about how pointless this book was and not to buy any variants, so im wondering how people feel about those books now?

JohnnyRnR · Post by **JohnnyRnR** » Mon Oct 04, 2010 7:41 pm

I feel surprised, didn't know a second issue came out. And didn't buy any of either. I'll happily pick of some variants once they bottom out.

Draco · Post by **Draco** » Mon Oct 04, 2010 7:47 pm

JohnnyRnR wrote:I feel surprised, didn't know a second issue came out. And didn't buy any of either. I'll happily pick of some variants once they bottom out.

Im not even sure i will want them at £1, maybe 50p, lol

RJMooreII · Post by **RJMooreII** » Mon Oct 04, 2010 8:49 pm

Draco wrote:
JohnnyRnR wrote:I feel surprised, didn't know a second issue came out. And didn't buy any of either. I'll happily pick of some variants once they bottom out.
Im not even sure i will want them at £1, maybe 50p, lol

I feel you underrate Image. Though the writing (usually) is nothing to compare to early Valiant, much of it is not worse than Marvel and DC titles. Shooter and Starlin are the best in the business, but comparing other comic lines to them is just...unfair.

It's like comparing comic artists to Frank Frazetta. No contest, Frazetta is better. But he also doesn't put stuff out weekly.

I grabbed some Stormwatch while I was out drinking with my sister today. Surprisingly good!

iggy101us · Post by **iggy101us** » Fri Oct 08, 2010 9:51 am

I just finished reading Superpatriot: War on Terror by Robert Kirkman. It's a 4-issue mini-series and it took them 4 years to finish it!

Superpatriot: War on Terror #1: July 2004
Superpatriot: War on Terror #2: January 2005
Superpatriot: War on Terror #3: January 2006
Superpatriot: War on Terror #4: May 2007

So it's not just the early Image books that were late.

ian_house · Post by **ian_house** » Fri Oct 08, 2010 10:28 am

RJMooreII wrote:
Draco wrote:
JohnnyRnR wrote:I feel surprised, didn't know a second issue came out. And didn't buy any of either. I'll happily pick of some variants once they bottom out.
Im not even sure i will want them at £1, maybe 50p, lol

I feel you underrate Image. Though the writing (usually) is nothing to compare to early Valiant, much of it is not worse than Marvel and DC titles. Shooter and Starlin are the best in the business, but comparing other comic lines to them is just...unfair.

It's like comparing comic artists to Frank Frazetta. No contest, Frazetta is better. But he also doesn't put stuff out weekly.

I grabbed some Stormwatch while I was out drinking with my sister today. Surprisingly good!

It's not possible to underrate early Image... Image do some great stuff now and have for years but in the early 90s when it kicked off was a blight on comic history. The number 1 comics with no story or feet. Marvel and DC weren't having great times but at least there was some good there.