Why is Batman a Ninja and Not Iron Man?

[ian_house]

Dude Batman always wins. Draco back me up!

[RJMooreII]

Dude Batman always wins. Draco back me up!

This is why I can't stand Batman and Wolverine fanboys. It's like arguing that Lyoto Machida could beat Godzilla.

[steverino]

Dude Batman always wins. Draco back me up!

This is why I can't stand Batman and Wolverine fanboys. It's like arguing that Lyoto Machida could beat Godzilla.

Batman has a anit-Godzilla thingy in his belt to beat Godzilla. That's what Batman does! He carries things in his belt.

Because he's BATMAN!

[Zool]

Batman is the way he is because it makes for compelling stories.

This has been proven for 70 years.

One of the reasons they're compelling is because he wins when the odds are stacked impossibly against him, and in a world occupied by gods and monsters he holds his own.

This is cool.

The character has been interpreted a hundred different ways, from Chris Nolan's gritty, techno-ninja to Adam West's disco dancing cavalier, Frank Miller's chiselled sadist to Grant Morrison's time-lost nomad, yet the template survives unscathed because there's something timeless about it connects with readers (viewers, whatever).

And that's it.

You can psychologically analyse fictional characters (and a lot of literary criticism does just that), but it becomes a pretty fraught excercise when your dealing with hundreds of interpretations from hundreds of writers.

You can also have a lot of fun arguing the relative merits and powers of superheroes/villians, too. But you can't simultaneously do that and denounce fanboyism

[ian_house]

Dude Batman always wins. Draco back me up!

This is why I can't stand Batman and Wolverine fanboys. It's like arguing that Lyoto Machida could beat Godzilla.

Yeah I love Bats but I'm also right. I've got 70 years of continuity proving that yeah Batman always wins, he's always at least two steps ahead and that humans will always find a way to overcome.

And Batman should have beaten Godzilla:

http://www.tohokingdom.com/cutting_room ... dzilla.htm
http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles ... 91/?page=1




On a separate note whilst looking for pictures of Godzilla v Batman I found this freaky looking Bat-toy:

[ian_house]

[Daniel Jackson]

On a separate note whilst looking for pictures of Godzilla v Batman I found this freaky looking Bat-toy:

Hahaha....what were they thinking?

[myron]

On a separate note whilst looking for pictures of Godzilla v Batman I found this freaky looking Bat-toy:

Hahaha....what were they thinking?

squirt gun probably

[Unblessed]

squirt gun probably

Interesting where the water goes in, what you pull to trigger the squirting action, and where the water comes out.

I'll take one.

[Cyberstrike]

Batman has plans to defeat the entire JLA which was used once.

Both Superman and Green Lantern (Hal Jordan and Kyle Rayner) consider Batman to be the be the first guy to beat if they were fight the rest of the JLA.

That's called CIS. Batman can't beat people who can cross the solar system in less time than it takes the neurons to go from his brain to his hand. Sorry, not possible, and no amount of character worship is ever going to make this coherent. This is why Batman does not belong in DC comics. He has no place there, and his presence aggravates me because of its exceedingly ridiculous nature. He is nothing but walking CIS.

First off I can't stand Batman because he's overused and comes off has an arrogant jerk but simple truth is Batman has beaten Superman in Batman: Dark Knight Returns #4 and he did it again in an impromptu battle they had in either Batman: Hush arc (or Superman: For Tomorrow arc I can't remember which), plus with the help of the JLA he took Superman apart in Batman: The Dark Knight Strikes Back #1.

In a flashback sequence in The Last Will and Testament of Hal Jordan GN Jordan (a character that I like even less than Batman) told his sidekick that if he were too get in a fight with the JLA that he would get Batman and that is what his sidekick who had Jordan's ring did.

[RJMooreII]

I've got 70 years of continuity proving that yeah Batman always wins, he's always at least two steps ahead and that humans will always find a way to overcome.

Which is called CIS, because it doesn't make any sense.

Batman has beaten Superman in Batman: Dark Knight Returns #4

Non-canon. Completely non-canon.

All I have to say is that it's *SQUEE*, and never made any sense, and no matter how many times anyone brings it up, it still doesn't make sense. It's just going to make me hate Batman more, because it's just nonsensical fanboy CIS (on the part of the writers, too) for a character I don't really care for to begin with. Superman moves billions of times faster than Batman's neurons can fire. The only reason Superman ever loses to anyone sub-cosmic level is because of *SQUEE* writing and inexplicably forgetting his powers. Not even kryptonite should actually be dangerous to him unless wielded by someone with comparable speed and durability.

[ian_house]

I've got 70 years of continuity proving that yeah Batman always wins, he's always at least two steps ahead and that humans will always find a way to overcome.

Which is called CIS, because it doesn't make any sense.

Batman has beaten Superman in Batman: Dark Knight Returns #4

Non-canon. Completely non-canon.

All I have to say is that it's *SQUEE*, and never made any sense, and no matter how many times anyone brings it up, it still doesn't make sense. It's just going to make me hate Batman more, because it's just nonsensical fanboy CIS (on the part of the writers, too) for a character I don't really care for to begin with. Superman moves billions of times faster than Batman's neurons can fire. The only reason Superman ever loses to anyone sub-cosmic level is because of *SQUEE* writing and inexplicably forgetting his powers. Not even kryptonite should actually be dangerous to him unless wielded by someone with comparable speed and durability.

Do you like any comics?

[RJMooreII]

Do you like any comics?

In the big two, I like several characters and a handful of storylines. Mostly villains, especially in Marvel. I really dislike the trope morality and inability to behave in any coherent way that exists in these Universes.
This is why I really enjoy Steve Ditko, because his superheroes/heroes aren't liberal idiots.
I also like a lot of stuff from 2000AD, like Judge Dredd and Strontium Dog; and some of the stuff I've read in Valiant.
What I hate in comics is hyperbole that's never backed up, random and blatant inconsistency and whiney or stupid characters who won't do the obvious stuff that any sane person would do. Basically it's certain ethical, political and other genre tropes that bug me; and they bug me in other forms of fiction, too. Because I pretty much hate people that actually believe that nonsense in real life, I have no interest in reading a comic book about them.

[Cyberstrike]

I've got 70 years of continuity proving that yeah Batman always wins, he's always at least two steps ahead and that humans will always find a way to overcome.

Which is called CIS, because it doesn't make any sense.

Batman has beaten Superman in Batman: Dark Knight Returns #4

Non-canon. Completely non-canon.

All I have to say is that it's *SQUEE*, and never made any sense, and no matter how many times anyone brings it up, it still doesn't make sense. It's just going to make me hate Batman more, because it's just nonsensical fanboy CIS (on the part of the writers, too) for a character I don't really care for to begin with. Superman moves billions of times faster than Batman's neurons can fire. The only reason Superman ever loses to anyone sub-cosmic level is because of *SQUEE* writing and inexplicably forgetting his powers. Not even kryptonite should actually be dangerous to him unless wielded by someone with comparable speed and durability.

For crying out...

he did it again in an impromptu battle they had in either Batman: Hush arc (or Superman: For Tomorrow arc I can't remember which)

If you read my entire post other than the first sentence I gave you an example when Batman beat Superman in continuity. Superman was under the control of Poison Ivy and she had the two of them get into an impromptu (that means a fight where Batman had no time to prepare) fight and he was still able to beat him.

The only time that I know when Superman beat Batman was in The Omac Project/Sacrifice arcs where Superman under the control of Maxwell Lord and Batman was the first one he took out and Wonder Woman was barely able to hold her own against Superman, she had to cut his throat just to slow him down.

[RJMooreII]

But as I explained in the earlier post, that doesn't make any sense, so it really doesn't matter to me. That's just bad writing and character worship. I don't know why people can't seem to understand the implications of his super speed and senses to the degree of being able to move millions of times the speed of light. You know who might be able to beat Superman? Shazam, Martian Manhunter, Captain Atom, Dr. Fate. Just about everyone else in the JLA would get a mud-hole stomped in them if anything worked coherently in DC. Superman could spit hard enough to destroy the entire bat-cave, and probably all of Gotham. And there's no way Batman or any hu-man could ever dodge heat ray vision, which moves faster than light and has nothing to show he's going to use it. Superman can see the electrons moving in Bruce's skull.

Ted Kord and the Question are much better examples of humans in DC. They never do *SQUEE* stuff like beat Darkseid, and their behavior (while amazing) is generally humanly-impossible. And Blue Beetle had the sense to wear body armor.

[Cyberstrike]

But as I explained in the earlier post, that doesn't make any sense, so it really doesn't matter to me. That's just bad writing and character worship. I don't know why people can't seem to understand the implications of his super speed and senses to the degree of being able to move millions of times the speed of light. You know who might be able to beat Superman? Shazam, Martian Manhunter, Captain Atom, Dr. Fate. Just about everyone else in the JLA would get a mud-hole stomped in them if anything worked coherently in DC. Superman could spit hard enough to destroy the entire bat-cave, and probably all of Gotham. And there's no way Batman or any hu-man could ever dodge heat ray vision, which moves faster than light and has nothing to show he's going to use it. Superman can see the electrons moving in Bruce's skull.

Ted Kord and the Question are much better examples of humans in DC. They never do *SQUEE* stuff like beat Darkseid, and their behavior (while amazing) is generally humanly-impossible. And Blue Beetle had the sense to wear body armor.

Superman was also fighting Poison Ivy's control and Batman at the same time maybe he can't multi-task while under mind control very well. In The Omac Project #3 and #4 Batman was beaten up and not able to help out. In the Sacrifice crossover the main fight was between Superman and Wonder Woman.

[xodacia81]

But as I explained in the earlier post, that doesn't make any sense, so it really doesn't matter to me. That's just bad writing and character worship. I don't know why people can't seem to understand the implications of his super speed and senses to the degree of being able to move millions of times the speed of light. You know who might be able to beat Superman? Shazam, Martian Manhunter, Captain Atom, Dr. Fate. Just about everyone else in the JLA would get a mud-hole stomped in them if anything worked coherently in DC. Superman could spit hard enough to destroy the entire bat-cave, and probably all of Gotham. And there's no way Batman or any hu-man could ever dodge heat ray vision, which moves faster than light and has nothing to show he's going to use it. Superman can see the electrons moving in Bruce's skull.

Ted Kord and the Question are much better examples of humans in DC. They never do *SQUEE* stuff like beat Darkseid, and their behavior (while amazing) is generally humanly-impossible. And Blue Beetle had the sense to wear body armor.

I do like The Question and Ted Kord was cool, but we will have to disagree about Batman being a total *SQUEE* character.

[RJMooreII]

Batman fighting Superman is an even more outrageous example of the same thing as Wolverine fighting the Hulk. Hulk is stronger, faster, has senses about as good, a better healing factor, he weighs more and his durability is such that Wolverine shouldn't have the strength to put his claws into him. And even if he did, Hulk is so strong that one punch should knock Wolverine's skeleton out of his fleshy-bag body and turn his brain and internal organs into jelly-pulp instantly. Now multiply that difference by about 100,000x and you have the difference between Batman and Superman. Especially when you remember that super-speed is basically the best power that exists, because you can do things like disarm someone and build a prison around them before they even know you exist.

This is why the Question is awesome, btw:

[Cyberstrike]

So what is your point?

Batman knocked a crook into a vat of acid in Detective Comics #27 (his first appearance) and said something effect of "his kind deserved it".

The Question not wanting or willing to risk his neck to save crooks from drowning in sewer and is willing to have another superhero do it, IMHO doesn't make any more or less heroic or real than Batman or even The Punisher more that matter. And the Punisher has had a skyscraper dropped on his head, been electrocuted in an electric chair, blew his own brains out, and has been turned into a cyborg and is still around.

I will agree with on The Hulk vs. Wolverine debate, the Hulk should be able to knock Wolverine into orbit literally and I doubt even Wolverine's healing factor wouldn't save him from a lack of oxygen. The only way that I could see Wolverine winning if he was able to cut the Hulk's arms, legs, and then his head off really, really, really fast.

As to the Hulk knocking his skeleton out of him, Magneto pulled the admantium out of his skeleton out of him and it didn't kill him.

[steverino]

But as I explained in the earlier post, that doesn't make any sense, so it really doesn't matter to me. That's just bad writing and character worship. I don't know why people can't seem to understand the implications of his super speed and senses to the degree of being able to move millions of times the speed of light. You know who might be able to beat Superman? Shazam, Martian Manhunter, Captain Atom, Dr. Fate. Just about everyone else in the JLA would get a mud-hole stomped in them if anything worked coherently in DC. Superman could spit hard enough to destroy the entire bat-cave, and probably all of Gotham. And there's no way Batman or any hu-man could ever dodge heat ray vision, which moves faster than light and has nothing to show he's going to use it. Superman can see the electrons moving in Bruce's skull.

Ted Kord and the Question are much better examples of humans in DC. They never do *SQUEE* stuff like beat Darkseid, and their behavior (while amazing) is generally humanly-impossible. And Blue Beetle had the sense to wear body armor.

According to this line of logic, if one calls debating the realism of crime fighters in tights logic, then Lex Luthor has no business being Superman's arch-nemesis. He's only human after all.

And the Leader has no business being the Hulk's arch-nemesis! Being only as strong as a normal human, regardless of intelligence.

Mind you, we're talking about comics, and over the top and unrealistic action and storytelling are the nature of the comics medium. Sure, there are examples of comics that are more realistic....


...but I don't read those.

[Daniel Jackson]

squirt gun probably

Interesting where the water goes in, what you pull to trigger the squirting action, and where the water comes out.

I'll take one.

It would be cool to see the toy guy on Antiques Roadshow review this one....

[comicsyte95]

Batman fighting Superman is an even more outrageous example of the same thing as Wolverine fighting the Hulk. Hulk is stronger, faster, has senses about as good, a better healing factor, he weighs more and his durability is such that Wolverine shouldn't have the strength to put his claws into him. And even if he did, Hulk is so strong that one punch should knock Wolverine's skeleton out of his fleshy-bag body and turn his brain and internal organs into jelly-pulp instantly. Now multiply that difference by about 100,000x and you have the difference between Batman and Superman. Especially when you remember that super-speed is basically the best power that exists, because you can do things like disarm someone and build a prison around them before they even know you exist.

The reason i like comics are that sometimes a human that has no powers can use his/her intelligence (either through planning or a gadget) to beat godlike beings that are near impossible to beat.Thats the fun part of comics.

Look at the battle between Superman and Doomsday.Even dieing to win Superman shouldn't have a chance against him.Yet with each battle Doomsday evolves past Superman level yet still Supes still wins.His true power is his "human spirit" that makes him unbeatable.

[Chiclo]

It is fortunate that Batman and Thanos are in different comic universe because the outcry when Thanos humiliates Batman would be breathtaking.

Doctor Doom could pull it off too. Twice.

If either of them cared that much, they could pull it off anyway.

[Lightning Strike]

Batman fighting Superman is an even more outrageous example of the same thing as Wolverine fighting the Hulk. Hulk is stronger, faster, has senses about as good, a better healing factor, he weighs more and his durability is such that Wolverine shouldn't have the strength to put his claws into him. And even if he did, Hulk is so strong that one punch should knock Wolverine's skeleton out of his fleshy-bag body and turn his brain and internal organs into jelly-pulp instantly. Now multiply that difference by about 100,000x and you have the difference between Batman and Superman. Especially when you remember that super-speed is basically the best power that exists, because you can do things like disarm someone and build a prison around them before they even know you exist.

I agree with almost all of this except the part of Hulk being faster than Logan. The main problem I have with Marvel today is that they pretty much ruined Wolverine when they made him virtually impossible to kill.

Back in the Claremont/Byrne run, Wolverine was a bad *SQUEE*, but he could be knocked out, hurt, and had the potential to die from bloodloss, etc. There was an issue a couple years ago where Wolverine had his body burned completely off his skeleton and he still survived and healed. That was ridiculous. If there is no cells left to heal from, how did he heal a new body? His skeleton is coated with adamantium, so no cell inside of those could expand and regrow. Just really bad writing.

[Lightning Strike]

It is fortunate that Batman and Thanos are in different comic universe because the outcry when Thanos humiliates Batman would be breathtaking.

Doctor Doom could pull it off too. Twice.

If either of them cared that much, they could pull it off anyway.

My two favorite villains. They could beat you with pure brawn and power, or simply their minds.