Why is Batman a Ninja and Not Iron Man?

RJMooreII · Post by **RJMooreII** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 12:33 am

I seem to be on a kick today with comic book tropes, here is one that has bugged me since I was like 12.

Bruce Wayne is one of the wealthiest, most intelligent and most tech savvy people in the DC Universe. He knows many people in possession of hypertechnology, from the Earth-born Steel to Superman and Mr. Miracle. He never shies from using gadgets and gear that are often just shy of techno-magic. So why does he restrain himself to Earth-manufactured polymer outfits and techno-ninja gadgets? Even if he doesn't want to go full Iron Man due to not wanting to rely on powered armor, that doesn't at all explain why he doesn't build suits from miracle materials that are impervious to normal weapons and energy blasts, and why he doesn't routinely carry advanced sensor arrays, flight rings and ranged stun weapons. Or is Bruce Wayne's kung-fu egotism more important than being more effective at saving lives and the occasional Universe? If he's really that paranoid that he won't accept stuff from Scott Free and Superman then why not reverse engineer it and at least make some primitive copies? Given what run-of-the-mill scientists in poorly funded secret labs manage to pull off routinely, you think he could do better than a kevlar ninja outfit and smoke bombs.

slym2none · Post by **slym2none** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 12:41 am

RJMooreII wrote:Why is Batman a Ninja and Not Iron Man?

Simple - Tony Stark does not have the discipline that Bruce Wayne does.

-slym

steverino · Post by **steverino** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 12:43 am

Because he's BATMAN!

That's what he does. Iron man's a pansy! Batman's got some anti-Iron Man thing in his belt because that's what BATMAN does! He carries things in this belt.

Cause he's BATMAN!

slym2none · Post by **slym2none** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 12:47 am

I answered your question as posed to me grammatically, and I see now that isn't quite how you meant it to be asked.

My apologies.

-slym

RJMooreII · Post by **RJMooreII** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 12:54 am

To me this (and the horrible instances he's involved in the Justice League on Apokalips or some other hell-hole that would kill him instantly) is the reason Batman should not be in DC comics. In his own pulp noir Universe he's great, in the DCU he's unbelievably vulnerable and unbelievably stupid for not using the obvious gadgets that apparently any *SQUEE* like Boomerang can spawn unlimited amounts of. It wouldn't be as bad if he was a strictly Ninja dude, but he obviously loves advanced computers, sensors, bizarre stun weapons, body armor - so why does he only use version that are inferior to crap the Flash's b-listers carry with them to the bar?

Zool · Post by **Zool** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 3:16 am

Why does Batman remain "basically" a ninja?

Because it's cool.

There have been dozen's of instances where he has 'suited up', flown a UFO and used a variety of hardcore sci-fi contraptions but the tech-mode doesn't stick because, I think, the heart of Batman's appeal lies in the fact he's basically just a man with a plan.

You can throw the world at him but he'll always beat you with his mind, heart and hands.

ian_house · Post by **ian_house** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 3:33 am

Dude, Batman just plans ahead that's all you gotta rememeber. Whether it's two punches ahead in a fight or predicting where a killer strikes twice... the Bat is ready for anything. Just try catching him unawares:

Think you'll catch him nipping to the bog... ready.

Eating a tasty three course meal... ready.

Macking on the Bat chicks... ready.

READY!

(sorry got carried away)

Heath · Post by **Heath** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 9:11 am

Because that's not the point of who Batman is. He's not super powered. He's not an alien. He's just a guy. Just a normal human. You and I (with a lot of training and a lot more money), could conceivably be Batman. There's nothing but our own laziness and stupidity stopping us. But we can't be Superman. We can't be Aquaman. We can't be Spider-Man or Wolverine. We can't even be Iron Man.

That's not saying Batman is realistic. Yeah, he has devices and tech that isn't really possible. Yeah, everything he has or does stretches reality. I mean, these are super hero comic books, after all. But he's still closer to the realm of possible than any other major comic book superhero. If they gave him a flight ring, invulnerability suit, etc., they would lose the core appeal of the character. He'd be another Booster Gold or Blue Beetle and get lost in the noise.

xodacia81 · Post by **xodacia81** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 9:16 am

Zool wrote:Why does Batman remain "basically" a ninja?

Because it's cool.

There have been dozen's of instances where he has 'suited up', flown a UFO and used a variety of hardcore sci-fi contraptions but the tech-mode doesn't stick because, I think, the heart of Batman's appeal lies in the fact he's basically just a man with a plan.

You can throw the world at him but he'll always beat you with his mind, heart and hands.

xodacia81 · Post by **xodacia81** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 9:16 am

Heath wrote:Because that's not the point of who Batman is. He's not super powered. He's not an alien. He's just a guy. Just a normal human. You and I (with a lot of training and a lot more money), could conceivably be Batman. There's nothing but our own laziness and stupidity stopping us. But we can't be Superman. We can't be Aquaman. We can't be Spider-Man or Wolverine. We can't even be Iron Man.

That's not saying Batman is realistic. Yeah, he has devices and tech that isn't really possible. Yeah, everything he has or does stretches reality. I mean, these are super hero comic books, after all. But he's still closer to the realm of possible than any other major comic book superhero. If they gave him a flight ring, invulnerability suit, etc., they would lose the core appeal of the character. He'd be another Booster Gold or Blue Beetle and get lost in the noise.

Yet another

X-O HoboJoe · Post by **X-O HoboJoe** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 9:25 am

Bats started out to clean up crime in Gotham, so he went with a basic hand-to-hand route. There've been many stories where, when physically outclassed (Dark Knight #4 vs. Supes, V. Predator, etc.) Bat's gets his butt whipped so he puts together and Iron-Bat suit then takes down the big bad.

So I guess I'd claim he's got both options and the range in-between in his arsenal and uses them accordingly.

RJMooreII · Post by **RJMooreII** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 11:03 am

Why does Batman remain "basically" a ninja? Because it's cool.

I disagree. I've never found ninjas cool. Nor can I understand why obviously primitive assassination and subterfuge gear is considered practical in combat, when things like...handguns...exist.

He's just a guy. Just a normal human.

That's bogus nonsense. The things he does are clearly superhuman, his luck is uncanny and many of the things he does are physically impossible for any human being, including olympic class athletes. I have less in common with an obsessive compulsive billionaire in combat S&M gear than I do with Superman who, for all his absurd power, is basically a straight forward guy without annoying personal issues.

Heath · Post by **Heath** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 11:24 am

RJMooreII wrote:
Why does Batman remain "basically" a ninja? Because it's cool.
I disagree. I've never found ninjas cool. Nor can I understand why obviously primitive assassination and subterfuge gear is considered practical in combat, when things like...handguns...exist.

Somewhere, a ninja just read that and totally flipped out and killed like a whole village or something. And it was probably totally awesome. Because ninjas are cool. And by cool, I mean totally sweet.

RJMooreII wrote:
He's just a guy. Just a normal human.
That's bogus nonsense. The things he does are clearly superhuman, his luck is uncanny and many of the things he does are physically impossible for any human being, including olympic class athletes. I have less in common with an obsessive compulsive billionaire in combat S&M gear than I do with Superman who, for all his absurd power, is basically a straight forward guy without annoying personal issues.

Well, you connect with different characters differently than other people do. I don't really see the appeal with the X-Men. Others do. That's just the way it works.

Cyberstrike · Post by **Cyberstrike** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 11:45 am

Batman has plans to defeat the entire JLA which was used once.

Both Superman and Green Lantern (Hal Jordan and Kyle Rayner) consider Batman to be the be the first guy to beat if they were fight the rest of the JLA.

RJMooreII · Post by **RJMooreII** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 11:49 am

Cyberstrike wrote:Batman has plans to defeat the entire JLA which was used once.

Both Superman and Green Lantern (Hal Jordan and Kyle Rayner) consider Batman to be the be the first guy to beat if they were fight the rest of the JLA.

That's called CIS. Batman can't beat people who can cross the solar system in less time than it takes the neurons to go from his brain to his hand. Sorry, not possible, and no amount of character worship is ever going to make this coherent. This is why Batman does not belong in DC comics. He has no place there, and his presence aggravates me because of its exceedingly ridiculous nature. He is nothing but walking CIS.

X-O HoboJoe · Post by **X-O HoboJoe** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 11:56 am

RJMooreII wrote:
Cyberstrike wrote:Batman has plans to defeat the entire JLA which was used once.

Both Superman and Green Lantern (Hal Jordan and Kyle Rayner) consider Batman to be the be the first guy to beat if they were fight the rest of the JLA.
That's called CIS. Batman can't beat people who can cross the solar system in less time than it takes the neurons to go from his brain to his hand. Sorry, not possible, and no amount of character worship is ever going to make this coherent. This is why Batman does not belong in DC comics. He has no place there, and his presence aggravates me because of its exceedingly ridiculous nature. He is nothing but walking CIS.

Heath wrote:you connect with different characters differently than other people do.

QFT. Never let reality get in the way of a good story.

sanman · Post by **sanman** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 12:32 pm

When you have shark nunchuk repellent nunchuks do you really need anything more?

http://www.the-isb.com/?p=633

steverino · Post by **steverino** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 4:12 pm

Because he's BATMAN!!!

Lightning Strike · Post by **Lightning Strike** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 4:27 pm

I think Batman does like his little gadgets but he doesn't wear a full "Iron Man" suit of armor because he doesn't want to rely on it in a life and death situation. That's why he's trained himself in the martial arts and is the world's greatest detective. When the chips are down, he wants to rely on his body, not a man made weapon.

You take Tony out of the armor and what is he? A regular man off the street who would be killed in any combat situation, while Batman can defeat meta humans even without his tool belt because his body and mind ARE weapons.

RJMooreII · Post by **RJMooreII** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 4:36 pm

while Batman can defeat meta humans even without his tool belt because his body and mind ARE weapons.

And because he wears Full Plot Mail +5 and the Gauntlet of Fanboydom.

IMJ · Post by **IMJ** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 5:00 pm

Batman is the Dark Knight. Iron Man is a Knight in shining armor. There's a tremendous parallel there that most people don't see. If you really observed the characters, their growth, etc you'd see that their roles could've been identically reversed if the circumstances surrounding their origins were switched.

Stark and Wayne are the same skill set when it comes to planning and execution of skill. It's just that Marvel carries the "flawed" hero formula further than DC.

sanman · Post by **sanman** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 5:27 pm

IMJ wrote:Batman is the Dark Knight. Iron Man is a Knight in shining armor. There's a tremendous parallel there that most people don't see. If you really observed the characters, their growth, etc you'd see that their roles could've been identically reversed if the circumstances surrounding their origins were switched.

Stark and Wayne are the same skill set when it comes to planning and execution of skill. It's just that Marvel carries the "flawed" hero formula further than DC.

Yeah, not sure I’d be too interested in Bruce Wayne’s battle with alcoholism—worked much better for Tony Stark.

RJMooreII · Post by **RJMooreII** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 5:29 pm

sanman wrote: Yeah, not sure I’d be too interested in Bruce Wayne’s battle with alcoholism—worked much better for Tony Stark.

Batman's life and personality scream of Adderall abuse.

Unblessed · Post by **Unblessed** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 6:17 pm

RJMooreII wrote:
sanman wrote: Yeah, not sure I’d be too interested in Bruce Wayne’s battle with alcoholism—worked much better for Tony Stark.
Batman's life and personality scream of Adderall abuse.

Interesting.

After reading that, I am thinking Focusin

IMJ · Post by **IMJ** » Sat Sep 25, 2010 2:58 pm

sanman wrote:
IMJ wrote:Batman is the Dark Knight. Iron Man is a Knight in shining armor. There's a tremendous parallel there that most people don't see. If you really observed the characters, their growth, etc you'd see that their roles could've been identically reversed if the circumstances surrounding their origins were switched.

Stark and Wayne are the same skill set when it comes to planning and execution of skill. It's just that Marvel carries the "flawed" hero formula further than DC.
Yeah, not sure I’d be too interested in Bruce Wayne’s battle with alcoholism—worked much better for Tony Stark.

I don't think you got the point I was making...