How many copies are you going to order?

[Brother J]

I love Shooter universes so much I built this website, which has included hours upon hours of research and my discovering stuff over the course of years about this particular universe that was unknown or had been lost to comicdom. www.newuniversecomics.com
Countless hours of my time have led to my documenting New Universe items that were widely not known to exist until my research. I know I don't have the right to show my support for Shooter by buying extra copies of the first universe he's launched in almost 20 years, though, because my interest is false.

I am not saying your interest is false and SD has explained why he will be buying multiple copies (for giving away, cool stuff) I am saying it promotes a false interest. From a publisher point of view 1 person buying 10 books looks like 10 people because 10 units have sold. This causes an increase in print run that doesn't reflect the amount of people really looking for a single copy of the book. When the people who bought multiple copies drop down their unit consumption from 10 to 5 or less after a few arcs or there is less call for resale copies or what ever, it will take a while for the print runs to balance out. While there is an excess, the publisher is losing money from units not sold. If the loss from these books is sufficient it can cause problems for the publishers which if this sort of *SQUEE* keeps happening, can cause them to cease printing as happened to a lot of smaller publishers after the glut. If the publisher is large they may be able to bear the brunt of it but after seeing artificially produced large drops over a number of months can lead to premature stoppage of a line of books.

If everyone buys one copy of the book and tells their mates how cool it was and let them read it and they want to get their own copy the publishers get a more accurate view of their sales, print runs are raised to reflect actual response and interest and the publishers and lines can continue to put out material.

That is what I mean by creating false interest. Surely a longer run would be preferable to Shooter and fans alike and would be more deserved by Shooter and his first universe in 20 years?

good points, I would say people buying multiples of certain Valiant books is one of the things that did Valiant in, as many collectors got disgusted when they found out their hoard of Turok #1's weren't worth the paper they were printed on and gave up on the company.

[Second_Death]

Well, most of you probably have a better assessment than I of the events that led to the crash. I had already left the hobby and missed the industry bloodletting.

Seems to me the calamity had several contributing factors: companies publishing crap so fast as to make one's head spin, variants, buyers/collectors whose sole intent in ordering multiple copies was reselling for profit, dealers who had the same intent, and dealers who ordered more copies than they reasonably should have expected to be able to sell. IMO, it appears many had blood on their hands in regards to the crash.

If someone's primary reasons for a multiple-copy purchase is to support Jim's new line and/or keep them for posterity, why should any of us have a problem with that?

[Drift]

Well, most of you probably have a better assessment than I of the events that led to the crash. I had already left the hobby and missed the industry bloodletting.

Seems to me the calamity had several contributing factors: companies publishing crap so fast as to make one's head spin, variants, buyers/collectors whose sole intent in ordering multiple copies was reselling for profit, dealers who had the same intent, and dealers who ordered more copies than they reasonably should have expected to be able to sell. IMO, it appears many had blood on their hands in regards to the crash.

If someone's primary reasons for a multiple-copy purchase is to support Jim's new line and/or keep them for posterity, why should any of us have a problem with that?

See Unknown's post page 1 of this thread

[Second_Death]

Well, most of you probably have a better assessment than I of the events that led to the crash. I had already left the hobby and missed the industry bloodletting.

Seems to me the calamity had several contributing factors: companies publishing crap so fast as to make one's head spin, variants, buyers/collectors whose sole intent in ordering multiple copies was reselling for profit, dealers who had the same intent, and dealers who ordered more copies than they reasonably should have expected to be able to sell. IMO, it appears many had blood on their hands in regards to the crash.

If someone's primary reasons for a multiple-copy purchase is to support Jim's new line and/or keep them for posterity, why should any of us have a problem with that?

See Unknown's post page 1 of this thread

I will buy one to read. And when the prices fall 6 months from now, I will laugh at the guys who bought 10-20-30 copies and thought it was the same as Superman #75.

Ha.

A fair estimate for the first issue print run is 10-14,000.

Now, subtract the multiples you hoarders and speculators will purchase, so a more true sales figure will unveil for issue 2. I will estimate the second issue will print around 8-10,000. Third issue below 7-8,000.

This is not sustainable by Dark Horse if they are paying out for the art and Shooter's scripts.

The Red Circle characters launched around 20,000. and plumeted by 50% for issue 2. They have been axed as of issue #10.

We need to support the product, not by buying and hoarding, but by telling fellow readers by word of mouth, message boards, giving a hoarded issue to a friend or co-worker to read.

I don't understand the relevance. I'm unfamiliar with the Red Circle reference so please forgive my ignorance. What does the history of the Superman #75 fiasco or the non-success of these Red Circle characters have to do with the ability of Jim's new books to survive or the desire of his fans to see him succeed?

[Drift]

Well, most of you probably have a better assessment than I of the events that led to the crash. I had already left the hobby and missed the industry bloodletting.

Seems to me the calamity had several contributing factors: companies publishing crap so fast as to make one's head spin, variants, buyers/collectors whose sole intent in ordering multiple copies was reselling for profit, dealers who had the same intent, and dealers who ordered more copies than they reasonably should have expected to be able to sell. IMO, it appears many had blood on their hands in regards to the crash.

If someone's primary reasons for a multiple-copy purchase is to support Jim's new line and/or keep them for posterity, why should any of us have a problem with that?

See Unknown's post page 1 of this thread

I will buy one to read. And when the prices fall 6 months from now, I will laugh at the guys who bought 10-20-30 copies and thought it was the same as Superman #75.

Ha.

A fair estimate for the first issue print run is 10-14,000.

Now, subtract the multiples you hoarders and speculators will purchase, so a more true sales figure will unveil for issue 2. I will estimate the second issue will print around 8-10,000. Third issue below 7-8,000.

This is not sustainable by Dark Horse if they are paying out for the art and Shooter's scripts.

The Red Circle characters launched around 20,000. and plumeted by 50% for issue 2. They have been axed as of issue #10.

We need to support the product, not by buying and hoarding, but by telling fellow readers by word of mouth, message boards, giving a hoarded issue to a friend or co-worker to read.

I don't understand the relevance. I'm unfamiliar with the Red Circle reference so please forgive my ignorance. What does the history of the Superman #75 fiasco or the non-success of these Red Circle characters have to do with the ability of Jim's new books to survive or the desire of his fans to see him succeed?

It is right there. You quoted it.

[ian_house]

Well, most of you probably have a better assessment than I of the events that led to the crash. I had already left the hobby and missed the industry bloodletting.

Seems to me the calamity had several contributing factors: companies publishing crap so fast as to make one's head spin, variants, buyers/collectors whose sole intent in ordering multiple copies was reselling for profit, dealers who had the same intent, and dealers who ordered more copies than they reasonably should have expected to be able to sell. IMO, it appears many had blood on their hands in regards to the crash.

If someone's primary reasons for a multiple-copy purchase is to support Jim's new line and/or keep them for posterity, why should any of us have a problem with that?

There is no difference to the effect on a publisher between people buying multiple issues for hoarding or flipping. It has the same effect as when these multiples drop the series looks like they are losing alot of customers when in fact the hoarders have stopped buying multiples of early issues in the run. This can look like failiure and lead to series getting cancelled. That, I believe, is Drifts concern and that instead we should be using word of mouth to promote the series instead of overinflating the demand on early issues like we do to every comic here.

[UnknownTales]

My estimates are low and conservative. Starbrand and I talk about this every day. He believes #1 will come in higher and I have drank the koolaid on his theory recently.

This will NOT launch at 100,000 copies like Flash #1 in April:


2 165.59 $3.99 DC Flash #1 100,903

Source:

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page ... e&id=26304

The highest independent in April was Green Hornet at number 61 out of the top 300 comics that month. Green Hormet sold 29,000 copies!!!!


61 48.50 $3.99 DE Kevin Smith Green Hornet 3 29,552

We shall see in a month or so when the figures are released. Will it come in below 50k? Yes, I believe so. Somewhere above 20K? Starbrand has me leaning over 20K now.

[Second_Death]

Well, most of you probably have a better assessment than I of the events that led to the crash. I had already left the hobby and missed the industry bloodletting.

Seems to me the calamity had several contributing factors: companies publishing crap so fast as to make one's head spin, variants, buyers/collectors whose sole intent in ordering multiple copies was reselling for profit, dealers who had the same intent, and dealers who ordered more copies than they reasonably should have expected to be able to sell. IMO, it appears many had blood on their hands in regards to the crash.

If someone's primary reasons for a multiple-copy purchase is to support Jim's new line and/or keep them for posterity, why should any of us have a problem with that?

There is no difference to the effect on a publisher between people buying multiple issues for hoarding or flipping. It has the same effect as when these multiples drop the series looks like they are losing alot of customers when in fact the hoarders have stopped buying multiples of early issues in the run. This can look like failiure and lead to series getting cancelled. That, I believe, is Drifts concern and that instead we should be using word of mouth to promote the series instead of overinflating the demand on early issues like we do to every comic here.

That's all well and good guys, but even better to have extra issues in hand to give or loan to those who otherwise wouldn't be exposed. If a fan's decision to support Jim's latest endeavor involves buying extra copies for whatever the reason, I will be the last to criticize. I doubt DH will make any rash decisions concerning the success or lack thereof in regards to the Dark-Key line since its probably safe to assume that Mike Richardson and Jim Shooter have a pretty good idea how the industry/hobby works.

[Second_Death]

Do the sales figures normally include the variant or premium editions? For instance, will the sales for Solar #1 include both covers?

I'm hopeful that Solar #1 and Magnus #1 will break into the top 10 but that may be unrealistic. As someone indicated, the overhead for the Dark-Key line is probably above average so they probably need to maintain a certain level of sales.

sales rank
--------------
27 DAR Buffy the Vampire Slayer Season 8 #34 45,909 units
61 DE Kevin Smith Green Hornet #3 29,552 units

Does anyone think later issues will maintain a steady presence on the chart anywhere near the other best selling DH title (Buffy) or Smith's Hornet? Sales may have to, at least for 2 or 3 of the titles, in order to float the line. Thoughts?

[iggy101us]

Do the sales figures normally include the variant or premium editions? For instance, will the sales for Solar #1 include both covers?

I'm hopeful that Solar #1 and Magnus #1 will break into the top 10 but that may be unrealistic. As someone indicated, the overhead for the Dark-Key line is probably above average so they probably need to maintain a certain level of sales.

sales rank
--------------
27 DAR Buffy the Vampire Slayer Season 8 #34 45,909 units
61 DE Kevin Smith Green Hornet #3 29,552 units

Does anyone think later issues will maintain a steady presence on the chart anywhere near the other best selling DH title (Buffy) or Smith's Hornet? Sales may have to, at least for 2 or 3 of the titles, in order to float the line. Thoughts?

They are making money off the GK Archives HCs as well from collateral interest from the new Dark Key comics.

[superman-prime]

just got my second 10 of fcbd

[UnknownTales]

ALL sales estimates through Diamond for the monthly top 300 INCLUDE variant covers.

Do the sales figures normally include the variant or premium editions? For instance, will the sales for Solar #1 include both covers?

I'm hopeful that Solar #1 and Magnus #1 will break into the top 10 but that may be unrealistic. As someone indicated, the overhead for the Dark-Key line is probably above average so they probably need to maintain a certain level of sales.

sales rank
--------------
27 DAR Buffy the Vampire Slayer Season 8 #34 45,909 units
61 DE Kevin Smith Green Hornet #3 29,552 units

Does anyone think later issues will maintain a steady presence on the chart anywhere near the other best selling DH title (Buffy) or Smith's Hornet? Sales may have to, at least for 2 or 3 of the titles, in order to float the line. Thoughts?

[Second_Death]

Thanks

[StarBrand]

I've settled on ordering 12 copies each of the early issues. Once the number of titles increase I doubt I'll be able to put away that many, but I'd like to.
I'll probably break some out for sale later, but who knows? I seem to have multiple copies disorder, a rare disorder indeed.
I for one think it would be cool to have 12 ea of all Defiant issues, just to have them.
I remember spending hour after hour driving through the Phoenix metro area snagging every copy of Amazing Spider-Man 252 I could find, just because I loved that issue so much and it seemed so historic to me.

[dave]

So, the rumors really were true?

[StarBrand]

So, the rumors really were true?

Yes, just like the rumours are now true Shooter is returning to the Gold Key characters!