if dark horse has a true relaunch will valiant issues rise

JCVaughn · Post by **JCVaughn** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 10:37 am

dhudson1 wrote: But when you can see a book yourself, why is a CGC book more valuable?

This remains something I would love to see a consensus on... and yet none appears to be coming at the moment.

greg · Post by **greg** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 10:39 am

dhudson1 wrote:What I think is strange is the multiples that some (many?) CGC books will get. Supposedly a 9.8 book should be worth the same whether it is CGC or not.

I find this particularly strange when a CGC book is bought at a store or show. I can understand a certification process when buying nearly blind on eBay or other sites, even a good scan doesn't reveal all inperfections.

But when you can see a book yourself, why is a CGC book more valuable?

Sunk Cost:
It costs more to have a book slabbed, and that cost is passed on (with every sale).

Current Confidence:
CGC may provide more confidence in the actual current grade.
If the seller has more confidence in CGC, he increases the cost of the CGC book.
If the buyer has more confidence in CGC, he increases the price he's willing to pay for the CGC book.

Future Confidence:
Today's Buyer X may wish to sell the book in the future.
Since the unknown future Buyer Y's confidence in CGC's grading may be greater than Buyer Y's future confidence in Buyer X's grading.
If Buyer X believes he may increase his future profit with CGC, he increases the price he's willing to pay for the CGC book.

Each of these scenarios increase the price of the CGC book in the market.
Some of us do not care about one or more of these scenarios, so we would not be impacted.
If we don't care about any of the scenarios, we buy the unslabbed book and are happy. The end.
If any one or more of these scenarios does matter to us, we have to weigh the options and act accordingly.

The underlying book could be exactly the same, but they are not the same situation.

dhudson1 · Post by **dhudson1** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 10:43 am

greg wrote:
dhudson1 wrote:What I think is strange is the multiples that some (many?) CGC books will get. Supposedly a 9.8 book should be worth the same whether it is CGC or not.

I find this particularly strange when a CGC book is bought at a store or show. I can understand a certification process when buying nearly blind on eBay or other sites, even a good scan doesn't reveal all inperfections.

But when you can see a book yourself, why is a CGC book more valuable?
Sunk Cost:
It costs more to have a book slabbed, and that cost is passed on (with every sale).

Current Confidence:
CGC may provide more confidence in the actual current grade.
If the seller has more confidence in CGC, he increases the cost of the CGC book.
If the buyer has more confidence in CGC, he increases the price he's willing to pay for the CGC book.

Future Confidence:
Today's Buyer X may wish to sell the book in the future.
Since the unknown future Buyer Y's confidence in CGC's grading may be greater than Buyer Y's future confidence in Buyer X's grading.
If Buyer X believes he may increase his future profit with CGC, he increases the price he's willing to pay for the CGC book.

Each of these scenarios increase the price of the CGC book in the market.
Some of us do not care about one or more of these scenarios, so we would not be impacted.
If we don't care about any of the scenarios, we buy the unslabbed book and are happy. The end.
If any one or more of these scenarios does matter to us, we have to weigh the options and act accordingly.

The underlying book could be exactly the same, but they are not the same situation.

The reasoning is sound, to a point. However, the kind of multiples that exist seem to be greater than the explanation above.

Why should a Harby 1 CGC 9.8 ever sell for the multiples that it has.

dhudson1 · Post by **dhudson1** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 10:44 am

JCVaughn wrote:
dhudson1 wrote: But when you can see a book yourself, why is a CGC book more valuable?
This remains something I would love to see a consensus on... and yet none appears to be coming at the moment.

Do you think that CGC is just a new form of speculation that will create a bubble that will burst? A speculation bubble is never good for the long term

Draco · Post by **Draco** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 10:50 am

dhudson1 wrote:
JCVaughn wrote:
dhudson1 wrote: But when you can see a book yourself, why is a CGC book more valuable?
This remains something I would love to see a consensus on... and yet none appears to be coming at the moment.
Do you think that CGC is just a new form of speculation that will create a bubble that will burst? A speculation bubble is never good for the long term

A 10 year bubble?

I still think for new product CGC are pointless, but too many people disagree with me and that tells me all i need to know about where the future lies with CGC.
I think most people i know wont buy less than a 9.6 so at least the trends are easy to follow.

dhudson1 · Post by **dhudson1** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 10:57 am

Draco wrote:
dhudson1 wrote:
JCVaughn wrote:
dhudson1 wrote: But when you can see a book yourself, why is a CGC book more valuable?
This remains something I would love to see a consensus on... and yet none appears to be coming at the moment.
Do you think that CGC is just a new form of speculation that will create a bubble that will burst? A speculation bubble is never good for the long term
A 10 year bubble?

I still think for new product CGC are pointless, but too many people disagree with me and that tells me all i need to know about where the future lies with CGC.
I think most people i know wont buy less than a 9.6 so at least the trends are easy to follow.

It may have been around for awhile, but I have just started seeing it as commonplace at stores and shows in the Mid-West over the past couple of years. Haven't really been looking at the pricing multiples on eBay until lately, but there seems to have been a pricing explosion. Maybe not..

dhudson1 · Post by **dhudson1** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 11:00 am

Draco wrote:
dhudson1 wrote:
JCVaughn wrote:
dhudson1 wrote: But when you can see a book yourself, why is a CGC book more valuable?
This remains something I would love to see a consensus on... and yet none appears to be coming at the moment.
Do you think that CGC is just a new form of speculation that will create a bubble that will burst? A speculation bubble is never good for the long term
A 10 year bubble?

I still think for new product CGC are pointless, but too many people disagree with me and that tells me all i need to know about where the future lies with CGC.
I think most people i know wont buy less than a 9.6 so at least the trends are easy to follow.

How many board members will slab the FCBD Solar/Magnus? That could be interesting.

superman-prime · Post by **superman-prime** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 12:37 pm

Ill pass and find one for less then the cost of slabbing if i want one

slym2none · Post by **slym2none** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 2:40 pm

dhudson1 wrote:Why should a Harby 1 CGC 9.8 ever sell for the multiples that it has.

Ask the buyer.

-slym

slym2none · Post by **slym2none** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 2:41 pm

superman-prime wrote:what does everyone think yes no maybee ?

Prolly not.

-slym

robb77 · Post by **robb77** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 3:02 pm

slym2none wrote:
superman-prime wrote:what does everyone think yes no maybee ?
Prolly not.

-slym

x2

tmcneil82 · Post by **tmcneil82** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 7:53 pm

I think books look great in CGC, but I couldn't see myself ever buying one to try to make a longterm profit on. Now i would, for a short term. But i believe personally, that this phase will eventually pass.

And as far as pricing goes, isn't the value/worth of something really just what someone is willing to pay? If i go to a comic shop, and see a CGC 6.0 ASM 129 for $4000, does that mean its worth that? No. Maybe it's worth that to someone, but every buyer makes their own decisions. I think the problem comics had in the 90s was due to overstreet and wizards trying to gauge prices to help consumers and buyers, but all it did was make a false market for books that the majority of buyers only bought because they were "hot". Not saying that any price guide is to blame, or were trying to do this, it was just inevitable. I'm sure as people stopped buying comics because they couldn't get rid of their "hot" books, they stopped buying the guides too, thus hurting their business, so I don't see any reason for them to cause this artificial inflation.

I guess the point I'm trying to get across here, it's really up to the buyer to decide what their worth, cgc or not.

slym2none · Post by **slym2none** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 9:44 pm

tmcneil82 wrote:I guess the point I'm trying to get across here, it's really up to the buyer to decide what their worth, cgc or not.

slym2none wrote:
dhudson1 wrote:Why should a Harby 1 CGC 9.8 ever sell for the multiples that it has.
Ask the buyer.

I have a few CGC books left, but they are all part of my (Uncanny) X-Men collection (#50, 100, & 127) and I got the last two for less than the raw price for the same grade. Years back, I also got a #135 CGC 7.0 that looked too good to leave in the case, as it's an easy 8.5, maybe 9.0 (even the CGC board agrees with me) so I cracked it out.

The CGC 8.5 #50 sure is purdy...

-slym

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