if dark horse has a true relaunch will valiant issues rise

[superman-prime]

what does everyone think yes no maybee ?

[maraxusofkeld]

No I really dont think so, because its a completely different universe and I dont seeing the new GK characters being the most popular books being printed to cause a frenzy.

[iggy101us]

Maybe.

I think there will be some additional interest in the Pre-Unity Solar and Magnus that Shooter was involved in. Whether that interest will actually translate to prices going up significantly, I doubt it unless the DH launch is EXTREMELY successful. The price of Turok #1 won't go up for sure.

[hotwings1979]

If prices for turok 1 go up I'll be rolling in the dough!!!!!

[greg]

I would think that the Gold Key books would be the most likely to see any increase.

That being said, the Dark Horse Sin City books are still fairly cheap and they've had a major movie, with another one on the way.

[superman-prime]

thanks for the input, but what if they start them after say steel nation or something like that, IE altinitive universe

[JCVaughn]

I say this not as the Overstreet guy (Bob sets all the prices anyway), but I think it will be prudent to watch the original Gold Key issues and the Valiants because their are two factors, not one.

First, of course, is the characters themselves.

Second is that it's the combination of the characters and Shooter.

Doesn't mean anything if the fans don't migrate to them, but if they do...

It will indeed be interesting for those of us who buy the books anyway to see where they go.

[sanman]

Maybe.

I think there will be some additional interest in the Pre-Unity Solar and Magnus that Shooter was involved in. Whether that interest will actually translate to prices going up significantly, I doubt it unless the DH launch is EXTREMELY successful. The price of Turok #1 won't go up for sure.

My thought as well

I say this not as the Overstreet guy (Bob sets all the prices anyway), but I think it will be prudent to watch the original Gold Key issues and the Valiants because their are two factors, not one.

First, of course, is the characters themselves.

Second is that it's the combination of the characters and Shooter.

Doesn't mean anything if the fans don't migrate to them, but if they do...

It will indeed be interesting for those of us who buy the books anyway to see where they go.

Guess we wait and see then...

[superman-prime]

yep

[Draco]

A new publisher taking on an revamping a product that has had great success is not guaranteed to do similar.
The size of the industry now and lack of speculator market alone could be the difference.

Greg's point about the Sin City books is an interesting one.
They did get a bit crazy over here for a few months but died back down quickly enough.
That just tells us that if we want something that's getting extra attention due to a movie, to be patient, as all these books follow a logical pattern. Nothing with an average print run stays high, as there are enough copies to go around and the amount of people willing to cash in when prices rise always outweigh the demand.
Also even books of 20 years ago like Pre Unity that had small print runs aren't so small in today's marketplace, so people wont have trouble tracking down any books if there is a sudden move back to picking up vh1.

The Gold Key books are showing up for sale in higher numbers than before as far as i can tell, but the prices haven't risen yet. Maybe we will see an initial rise when the first books hit the stands and if/when they are well rec'd.
I have seen many copies of Solar # 1 for great prices around FN, also quite a few Four color # 596 in VG or slightly better
Not as many Magnus #1's though, so my money is definitely on that one out of the three.
Again though, there are so many copies available i think the days of crazy prices are behind us.
Sure we may see a price hike, but if so it wont last.

[dhudson1]

I say this not as the Overstreet guy (Bob sets all the prices anyway), but I think it will be prudent to watch the original Gold Key issues and the Valiants because their are two factors, not one.

First, of course, is the characters themselves.

Second is that it's the combination of the characters and Shooter.

Doesn't mean anything if the fans don't migrate to them, but if they do...

It will indeed be interesting for those of us who buy the books anyway to see where they go.

I remember when he artificially kept the price of Shazam #1 up as many of the bigger dealers around the country were trying to move the backstock. The listed price stayed at $10 for quite awhile.

[dhudson1]

The Gold Key books are showing up for sale in higher numbers than before as far as i can tell, but the prices haven't risen yet. Maybe we will see an initial rise when the first books hit the stands and if/when they are well rec'd.

The books showing up for sale in higher numbers will generally drive down a price, not increase it unless the demand is growing faster than the increase in availability.

[Draco]

The Gold Key books are showing up for sale in higher numbers than before as far as i can tell, but the prices haven't risen yet. Maybe we will see an initial rise when the first books hit the stands and if/when they are well rec'd.

The books showing up for sale in higher numbers will generally drive down a price, not increase it unless the demand is growing faster than the increase in availability.

Didnt i say that in a roundabout way?

Nothing with an average print run stays high, as there are enough copies to go around and the amount of people willing to cash in when prices rise always outweigh the demand

[JCVaughn]

I remember when he artificially kept the price of Shazam #1 up as many of the bigger dealers around the country were trying to move the backstock. The listed price stayed at $10 for quite awhile.

Bob doesn't artificially keep prices up. I've worked with the guy for 14+ years and it just doesn't happen. He can only go on what's reported to him and make the best possible analysis of that data. What you suggest is price fixing and is frankly illegal.

That doesn't preclude us not getting data, of course, or people under or over reporting sales, but that's an important component of the conservative nature of Bob's approach to pricing.

It's not a perfect system, but that's why it's a guide and not a price list.

[Draco]

I remember when he artificially kept the price of Shazam #1 up as many of the bigger dealers around the country were trying to move the backstock. The listed price stayed at $10 for quite awhile.

Bob doesn't artificially keep prices up. I've worked with the guy for 14+ years and it just doesn't happen. He can only go on what's reported to him and make the best possible analysis of that data. What you suggest is price fixing and is frankly illegal.

That doesn't preclude us not getting data, of course, or people under or over reporting sales, but that's an important component of the conservative nature of Bob's approach to pricing.

It's not a perfect system, but that's why it's a guide and not a price list.

There have been so many rumours over the years, but you have to take these things with a pinch of salt, as you quite rightly pointed out, price fixing is highly illegal and would be very costly for a man in his position.

There are plenty of negative things i have heard over the years regarding how the price guide is compiled etc and some of them make sense, but i wouldnt want the task of making one, so im just thankful someone else has balls of steel enough to keep banging them out.

[dhudson1]

I remember when he artificially kept the price of Shazam #1 up as many of the bigger dealers around the country were trying to move the backstock. The listed price stayed at $10 for quite awhile.

Bob doesn't artificially keep prices up. I've worked with the guy for 14+ years and it just doesn't happen. He can only go on what's reported to him and make the best possible analysis of that data. What you suggest is price fixing and is frankly illegal.

That doesn't preclude us not getting data, of course, or people under or over reporting sales, but that's an important component of the conservative nature of Bob's approach to pricing.

It's not a perfect system, but that's why it's a guide and not a price list.

It happended, maybe I overstated it by saying he artificially inflated the price, can't say it was on purpose. But it would not be not price fixing. He doesn't tell or force anyone to sell anything at any given price.

Don't know how the Shazam 1 thing happened, but the price was about $10.00 the year after the book came out, and a few years thereafter. But the book was not in demand at all. No one was paying $10 for the book.

This was very early on in the Overstreet Price Guide history, very few comic book stores. i was living in Cleveland Tn at the time, went to high scholl with his son. A very active collecting area, bought my first price guide from his son.

[dhudson1]

I remember when he artificially kept the price of Shazam #1 up as many of the bigger dealers around the country were trying to move the backstock. The listed price stayed at $10 for quite awhile.

Bob doesn't artificially keep prices up. I've worked with the guy for 14+ years and it just doesn't happen. He can only go on what's reported to him and make the best possible analysis of that data. What you suggest is price fixing and is frankly illegal.

That doesn't preclude us not getting data, of course, or people under or over reporting sales, but that's an important component of the conservative nature of Bob's approach to pricing.

It's not a perfect system, but that's why it's a guide and not a price list.

There have been so many rumours over the years, but you have to take these things with a pinch of salt, as you quite rightly pointed out, price fixing is highly illegal and would be very costly for a man in his position.

There are plenty of negative things i have heard over the years regarding how the price guide is compiled etc and some of them make sense, but i wouldnt want the task of making one, so im just thankful someone else has balls of steel enough to keep banging them out.

I think overal he does a great job, particularly on the older books. On newer stuff, it is hard for an annual price guide to be very effective, price is too volatile

[Draco]

I remember when he artificially kept the price of Shazam #1 up as many of the bigger dealers around the country were trying to move the backstock. The listed price stayed at $10 for quite awhile.

Bob doesn't artificially keep prices up. I've worked with the guy for 14+ years and it just doesn't happen. He can only go on what's reported to him and make the best possible analysis of that data. What you suggest is price fixing and is frankly illegal.

That doesn't preclude us not getting data, of course, or people under or over reporting sales, but that's an important component of the conservative nature of Bob's approach to pricing.

It's not a perfect system, but that's why it's a guide and not a price list.

There have been so many rumours over the years, but you have to take these things with a pinch of salt, as you quite rightly pointed out, price fixing is highly illegal and would be very costly for a man in his position.

There are plenty of negative things i have heard over the years regarding how the price guide is compiled etc and some of them make sense, but i wouldnt want the task of making one, so im just thankful someone else has balls of steel enough to keep banging them out.

I think overal he does a great job, particularly on the older books. On newer stuff, it is hard for an annual price guide to be very dffective, price is too volatile

Its the product from the last ten years or so that isnt paid attention to thats most criticised sure.
It frustrating, but where prices are no longer up and dowm, maybe some more attention could be used.

Looking for books that have been selling for big bucks constantly and seeing them for cover still is crazy, but thats life.

[Draco]

I remember when he artificially kept the price of Shazam #1 up as many of the bigger dealers around the country were trying to move the backstock. The listed price stayed at $10 for quite awhile.

Bob doesn't artificially keep prices up. I've worked with the guy for 14+ years and it just doesn't happen. He can only go on what's reported to him and make the best possible analysis of that data. What you suggest is price fixing and is frankly illegal.

That doesn't preclude us not getting data, of course, or people under or over reporting sales, but that's an important component of the conservative nature of Bob's approach to pricing.

It's not a perfect system, but that's why it's a guide and not a price list.

It happended, and no it is not price fixing. He doesn't tell or force anyone to sell anything at any given price.

Wouldnt it be classed the same if you are fraudulently making up information with a view to a group of individuals making a profit?

[dhudson1]

I remember when he artificially kept the price of Shazam #1 up as many of the bigger dealers around the country were trying to move the backstock. The listed price stayed at $10 for quite awhile.

Bob doesn't artificially keep prices up. I've worked with the guy for 14+ years and it just doesn't happen. He can only go on what's reported to him and make the best possible analysis of that data. What you suggest is price fixing and is frankly illegal.

That doesn't preclude us not getting data, of course, or people under or over reporting sales, but that's an important component of the conservative nature of Bob's approach to pricing.

It's not a perfect system, but that's why it's a guide and not a price list.

There have been so many rumours over the years, but you have to take these things with a pinch of salt, as you quite rightly pointed out, price fixing is highly illegal and would be very costly for a man in his position.

There are plenty of negative things i have heard over the years regarding how the price guide is compiled etc and some of them make sense, but i wouldnt want the task of making one, so im just thankful someone else has balls of steel enough to keep banging them out.

I think overal he does a great job, particularly on the older books. On newer stuff, it is hard for an annual price guide to be very dffective, price is too volatile

Its the product from the last ten years or so that isnt paid attention to thats most criticised sure.
It frustrating, but where prices are no longer up and dowm, maybe some more attention could be used.

Looking for books that have been selling for big bucks constantly and seeing them for cover still is crazy, but thats life.

Even when Overstreet published the monthly guide, it was dificult to keep track of monthly trends. Prior to the internet explosion, often times short term trends were local or regional.

When the Batman/Bane thing was big, I lived in the Tampa florida area. The prices shot up because of a local shortage. With no eBay and very little internet usage (all you really had at that time was Prodigy) Local dealers jacked the price up. I was using Prodigy at the time, and found a dealer in California who was overstocked, sold me a bunch, which I traded to my local shop.

Harder for regional variations in price to develope like that now, though not impossible.

[dhudson1]

I remember when he artificially kept the price of Shazam #1 up as many of the bigger dealers around the country were trying to move the backstock. The listed price stayed at $10 for quite awhile.

Bob doesn't artificially keep prices up. I've worked with the guy for 14+ years and it just doesn't happen. He can only go on what's reported to him and make the best possible analysis of that data. What you suggest is price fixing and is frankly illegal.

That doesn't preclude us not getting data, of course, or people under or over reporting sales, but that's an important component of the conservative nature of Bob's approach to pricing.

It's not a perfect system, but that's why it's a guide and not a price list.

It happended, and no it is not price fixing. He doesn't tell or force anyone to sell anything at any given price.

Wouldnt it be classed the same if you are fraudulently making up information with a view to a group of individuals making a profit?

i suspect the small dealer network he was using at the time (had to be small, very few dealers in the early - mid seventies) may have been providing him bad information. Many had speculated on Shazam number one, just like many in the 90's speculated on the new universe.

Howver, it was widely known that the book was fairly worthless at the time.

Not all dealers were, or are, as honest as you.

[greg]

The Overstreet Guide has a few "glitches".

Glitch 1:
The prices seem to move "strictly formulaicly" by age.
When the new guide comes out, prices are often up X% across the board.
I'm sure an argument can be made for inflation to drive the price up,
since $5 doesn't buy what $5 would buy a few years ago...
but it seems that the guide's comic prices outpace inflation
even without any documented, repeated sales.
There's no legitimate reason that GD (2.0) should rise at the same % as VF/NM (9.0).

Glitch 2:
CGC grading has taken a lot of the guesswork out of grading.
Consistent CGC sales should be reflected in any legitimate price guide.
Overstreet has dropped prices higher than 9.4, primarily because of CGC's impact,
but the documented prices being paid for CGC 6.0 or CGC 8.0 on key books,
such as Amazing Fantasy #15, don't get reflected in the guide.
If consistent sales at a consistent grade don't count for an annual guide, what does?

Glitch 3:
The market itself uses the Overstreet guide to set prices...
and some of those are based on a "multiple" of the guide.
So, Overstreet could never be accurate if the "multiple" is anything but 1.
For example, a book is in the guide for $1,000, but the market generally
considers the book undervalued (either due to scarcity or pedigree or something)
and always prices the book at 1.5x the guide.
If the "correct price" in the market is actually $1,500 instead of $1,000...
then Overstreet moving the price to $1,500 would still be wrong...
since the market would set the price at $2,250 (which is 1.5x the new guide).
Overstreet could never catch up.
The same is true for books that sell for a fraction of guide.
If Overstreet's price falls, the price falls again... and Overstreet stays behind.

Glitch 4:
The internet.
Overstreet's price guide has always (appeared to be) handled by hand
with only basic calculations or multiplications or manual changes.
The internet has a variety of auctions, dealers, and information outlets
that reflect the actual comic book market... visible to everyone all the time.
Overstreet doesn't (appear to) use these... and we know in this internet age
that any printed paper is always out of date, especially if it's "yearly".

[Draco]

Even when Overstreet published the monthly guide, it was dificult to keep track of monthly trends. Prior to the internet explosion, often times short term trends were local or regional.

When the Batman/Bane thing was big, I lived in the Tampa florida area. The prices shot up because of a local shortage. With no eBay and very little internet usage (all you really had at that time was Prodigy) Local dealers jacked the price up. I was using Prodigy at the time, and found a dealer in California who was overstocked, sold me a bunch, which I traded to my local shop.

Harder for regional variations in price to develope like that now, though not impossible.

Before the Internet its a miracle this kind of thing was as extensive and as accurate as it was since 1971, but now they need more dudes taking care of the last 10-15 years.
I know so many people who have tried to use a guide and fallen flat due to a lack of prices for this exact market.
I know prices can change dramatically on really new product, but some stuff from the last 15 years, Valiant being a good example have been unchanged for some time.

Having seen the vh1 books rise and fall again in the last few years means little as the guide hardly recognises any as over cover price still even though many have been $20 books for ten years give or take 5 bucks.

[Draco]

The Overstreet Guide has a few "glitches".

Glitch 1:
The prices seem to move "strictly formulaicly" by age.
When the new guide comes out, prices are often up X% across the board.
I'm sure an argument can be made for inflation to drive the price up,
since $5 doesn't buy what $5 would buy a few years ago...
but it seems that the guide's comic prices outpace inflation
even without any documented, repeated sales.
There's no legitimate reason that GD (2.0) should rise at the same % as VF/NM (9.0).

Glitch 2:
CGC grading has taken a lot of the guesswork out of grading.
Consistent CGC sales should be reflected in any legitimate price guide.
Overstreet has dropped prices higher than 9.4, primarily because of CGC's impact,
but the documented prices being paid for CGC 6.0 or CGC 8.0 on key books,
such as Amazing Fantasy #15, don't get reflected in the guide.
If consistent sales at a consistent grade don't count for an annual guide, what does?

Glitch 3:
The market itself uses the Overstreet guide to set prices...
and some of those are based on a "multiple" of the guide.
So, Overstreet could never be accurate if the "multiple" is anything but 1.
For example, a book is in the guide for $1,000, but the market generally
considers the book undervalued (either due to scarcity or pedigree or something)
and always prices the book at 1.5x the guide.
If the "correct price" in the market is actually $1,500 instead of $1,000...
then Overstreet moving the price to $1,500 would still be wrong...
since the market would set the price at $2,250 (which is 1.5x the new guide).
Overstreet could never catch up.
The same is true for books that sell for a fraction of guide.
If Overstreet's price falls, the price falls again... and Overstreet stays behind.

Glitch 4:
The internet.
Overstreet's price guide has always (appeared to be) handled by hand
with only basic calculations or multiplications or manual changes.
The internet has a variety of auctions, dealers, and information outlets
that reflect the actual comic book market... visible to everyone all the time.
Overstreet doesn't (appear to) use these... and we know in this internet age
that any printed paper is always out of date, especially if it's "yearly".

[dhudson1]

The Overstreet Guide has a few "glitches".

Glitch 1:
The prices seem to move "strictly formulaicly" by age.
When the new guide comes out, prices are often up X% across the board.
I'm sure an argument can be made for inflation to drive the price up,
since $5 doesn't buy what $5 would buy a few years ago...
but it seems that the guide's comic prices outpace inflation
even without any documented, repeated sales.
There's no legitimate reason that GD (2.0) should rise at the same % as VF/NM (9.0).

Glitch 2:
CGC grading has taken a lot of the guesswork out of grading.
Consistent CGC sales should be reflected in any legitimate price guide.
Overstreet has dropped prices higher than 9.4, primarily because of CGC's impact,
but the documented prices being paid for CGC 6.0 or CGC 8.0 on key books,
such as Amazing Fantasy #15, don't get reflected in the guide.
If consistent sales at a consistent grade don't count for an annual guide, what does?

Glitch 3:
The market itself uses the Overstreet guide to set prices...
and some of those are based on a "multiple" of the guide.
So, Overstreet could never be accurate if the "multiple" is anything but 1.
For example, a book is in the guide for $1,000, but the market generally
considers the book undervalued (either due to scarcity or pedigree or something)
and always prices the book at 1.5x the guide.
If the "correct price" in the market is actually $1,500 instead of $1,000...
then Overstreet moving the price to $1,500 would still be wrong...
since the market would set the price at $2,250 (which is 1.5x the new guide).
Overstreet could never catch up.
The same is true for books that sell for a fraction of guide.
If Overstreet's price falls, the price falls again... and Overstreet stays behind.

Glitch 4:
The internet.
Overstreet's price guide has always (appeared to be) handled by hand
with only basic calculations or multiplications or manual changes.
The internet has a variety of auctions, dealers, and information outlets
that reflect the actual comic book market... visible to everyone all the time.
Overstreet doesn't (appear to) use these... and we know in this internet age
that any printed paper is always out of date, especially if it's "yearly".

Very thoughtful analysis.

What I think is strange is the multiples that some (many?) CGC books will get. Supposedly a 9.8 book should be worth the same whether it is CGC or not.

I find this particularly strange when a CGC book is bought at a store or show. I can understand a certification process when buying nearly blind on eBay or other sites, even a good scan doesn't reveal all inperfections.

But when you can see a book yourself, why is a CGC book more valuable?