Valiant vs. Shooter - COURT DOCUMENT

[SnotDrip]

I WAS AT BALTIMORE CON ON SATURDAY. tHE FOLKS AT DARK HORSE WERE SET UP THERE THIS PAST SATURDAY/SUNDAY. i ASKED IN REFERENCE TO WHEN THE GK BOOKS WERE COMING OUT. I WAS TOLD THE BOOKS WERE COMING OUT AS SCHEDULED SUMMER OF 2010 PERIOD!!!!! JIM SHOOTER WILL WRITE SOLAR, MAGNUS AND TUROK WHICH WILL BE THEIR INITIAL OFFERING. DH WAS ADAMANT THAT ONLY SHOOTER WILL WRITE THESE TITLES, NO ARTISTS WERE SET WHEN I ASKED.

im glad these are still going ahead

I just have to wonder if this is wishful thinking on the part of Dark Horse.

Until a cease and desist order comes down for DH, it is business as usual I would imagine. Then it would be up to DH to get an injunction against the Cease and Desist Order...and so on...FOOOK these lawyers are going to make a fortune!!!

I read the Marvel lawsuit book last year and there was many references to how much the legal guys were rolling in from the length of the case.

Hopfully this will blow over rather quickly and we can all get back to our similar fantasies about new Valiant books.

Mayby that is the whole point...DC and Marvel have been to court so many times to protect their intellectual property. Marvel and Stan Lee have gone head to head as well as Stan Lee Media vs Marvel. Lee settled some years ago for, iirc, about 10 million and is back with Marvel Entertainment but Stan Lee Media is still going after Marvel. Neither company has folded nor stopped producing comics.

VEI has a stable of original characters not seen since probably the 60s (since Stan's time anyways). There is a lot of potential with or without shooter.

BTW anybody know when the court date is??

[yardstick]

Ugh, what a mess this is. I see VEI has put a number of over a million dollars in damages to all of this.

What a shame that according to the file we were very close to getting what we've been asking for all of these years.

Actually if I read it right it is 3 x $1,000,000, plus salary paid to Jim Shooter, plus legal costs.

Yikes, I thought they were just referencing everything back to the one million dollar figure over an over.

That is what I thought initially, but there are four clear areas of action, and three stipulate the $1,000,000 figure. We need a board-lawyer for clarification.

I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on TV...

[yardstick]

Page 6 per pdf / page 4 per the document footer, #12 has the wrong date. Dec 3, 2009 is in the future.

such errors are permissible in these kinds of documents, and are typically allowed to be read/interpreted as if corrected.

Of course, typos like this also typically indicate that the document was hurriedly typed or that the typist/paralegal is not very competent.

[yardstick]

There are a few things that I noticed about the language and looked up.

First, Fiduciary Duty: The highest standard of care that can exist. The person with a fiduciary duty is entrusted to protect the interests of the principle party before his own.

Second, the phrase "on information and belief": This phrase indicates that the statement has not made from first-hand knowledge, but that the alleging party believes it to be true to the best of their knowledge and understanding.

I imagine that this document is meant to cover any and all possible things that Jim Shooter may have done inappropriately. Some may not actually be true, some may not.

We should see Jim Shooter's response within a week or so, it seems. He has 20 days to respond, I have no idea if that is 20 business days or calendar days.

usually it is calendar days...

[seymoregutz]

one has to wonder if VEI knew that shooter was still working for DK. nothing of that nature was said in the writ. it could have been a ploy to discredit him.....IE...giving him the pandora's box {laptop} to see what he would do with it. i'm sure that if DK's intrests are sincere, they will be in the court room with shooter. if they stand behind him, they will defend him. the other thing to think about is who had the comformated deal with classic? it just seems to me that this looks like a ploy to set him up so noone will work with him. as for that date......maybe that was the roll-out date for the comics....which would lend to the thinking that they were close to fruitation.

[JustCallMeAric]

nothing of that nature was said in the writ.

This brings back nightmares from English legal history. Thankfully the writ system is dead in America.

[yardstick]

I went back and read the 20 Questions interview at Scoop and recent events shed new light on some of Jim's comments. Some seem to contradict the VEI lawsuit while some offer clues to his departure...

Mike Richardson and I first talked about my relaunching the Gold Key properties two and a half years ago. We spoke about it occasionally thereafter, but for one reason or another—rights issues, both of us busy with other things, whatever—nothing ever came of it. Recently, I opted out of another gig, and though I had some commercial work to fall back on through my company Illustrated Media, I figured it would be a good time to check in with Mike. And it was. The week of the San Diego Comic Con, we worked out an agreement and next thing I knew I was standing beside Mike onstage at the show as he announced the project.

This seems to contradict the VEI lawsuit. Jim says he "opted out" of VEI, THEN contacted Mike at Dark Horse and worked out a deal with them. Jim not writing an email to Classic Media saying he was Valiant's EIC could have been because he knew he was about to leave, not because he was secretly working with DH. But then, why would Classic Media say Dark Horse told them that Shooter worked for them before he left VEI?

...this project came into existence only ten days ago, as of this writing.

JCVaughn announced on Wed, August 4, that he had Jim's answers to the 20 questions. So I'm taking this date as the "as of this writing." It may be off by a day or two, but should be close enough.

10 days before August 4 was July 25 - the very day that Mike Richardson made the announcement at SDCC.

So what did he mean by "came into existence?" Did he mean "officially announced" but the deal was between them was already in place? Did he mean that was the day he and Mike actually made a deal with each other? Did Jim & Mike begin serious discussion, make a handshake deal (Jim said in the CBR video interview that a handshake with Mike was better than a contract with anybody else), and announce the project at SDCC all on the same day? Could mean any of that, but by use of the phrase "came into existence" it sounds like the project didn't exist before July 25 and there were no formal talks between DH and Jim before then.

These two quotes seem to indicate that Jim was NOT working with Dark Horse on the Classic Media characters until AFTER leaving VEI and AFTER Dark Horse acquired the rights to the characters. In fact, they weren't working together until the day (or a day or two before) Dark Horse made their announcement at SDCC.

Everyone at Dark Horse has been nothing but helpful. Mike Richardson has already contributed some great ideas and suggestions. He knows his stuff, he’s an outstanding idea man and a terrific sounding board. He’s the boss, but it seems clear that his intent—and therefore, Dark Horse’s intent—is to help me fulfill my vision for these properties.

Maybe Jim didn't feel that way at VEI and that's why he left. Maybe he didn't feel that he had the creative control to fulfill his vision at VEI for whatever reason.

And maybe he just didn't want to go through the struggles and burdens of a start-up company all over again.

VALIANT was a way undercapitalized start-up, so broke for much of the time that I actually had to draw several covers and a couple of stories because we couldn’t afford real artists! So many things were compromised by lack of time and money. However, working with Mike and Dark Horse, I think the rest of the creative process, beyond the script stage, will be vastly upgraded. They have all the apparatus already in place. They are totally professional and top drawer in every way. I guarantee, they wouldn’t let an “artist” as lame as me draw anything even if I wanted to. Hooray!

Maybe he saw history repeating itself and just didn't want to go through the headache and heartache again. He preferred a little more security with an established and experienced company, working for someone he respected, as he told CBR:

Shooter noted there is a sense of security in working with an established publisher like Dark Horse, as opposed to launching a new comics line and dealing with both the creative and business sides of a new company, as he had in the Valiant days. “Last time I worked on these characters, Valiant was a very fragile start-up, it was way under-capitalized. What that means is you are particularly on a dead run,” Shooter recalled. “But this time I have maybe a little more time to think about it. Not rely on a lucky accident that something works out well, but really sort of take the time to plan better. The nice thing about working with Dark Horse is we already have the publishing operation, where before we had to hire a designer, and an accountant, to keep the house in order. Dark Horse has the apparatus to put the books out more quickly."
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page ... e&id=22234

So, did Shooter violate his non-compete agreement with VEI by working for Dark Horse before 3 months were up? Maybe not. And here's a clue as to how:

My services to Dark Horse (and those of any other writers I bring in) are being provided by Illustrated Media.

I'm no legal contracts expert so I might have it completely wrong, but if it was Jim Shooter personally that worked for VEI, and (even as the lawsuit seems to imply) he was still allowed to do outside work through his company, Illustrated Media, and furthermore, it's not Jim Shooter personally being hired by Dark Horse, but Illustrated Media... Jim might have found a loophole to the non-compete agreement.

Mike never asked me to be exclusive. He didn’t have to.

That could be read like there was some resentment to being required to be exclusive and perhaps acknowledgment of the non-compete he signed with VEI. So the deal actually being between Dark Horse and Illustrated Media - not Dark Horse and Jim Shooter - could have been his way of getting around the non-compete.

Plenty of speculation and pure conjecture on my part, but maybe this sheds a little light on Jim's side of the story. Besides, we have more speculation and conjecture than hard facts right now, so...

Who are you? Matlock???

Heathlock....

[yardstick]

Well, I'm pretty *SQUEE* sick of all this. I'll continue to support the companies that put out books that I like and I'll continue to not give a *SQUEE* about the company who always ends with their dong in their hand with nothing happening.

Wouldnt the hand be a form of support tho?

[tmcneil82]

I agree with all of the thoughts on Jim not wanting to get into the comic startup problems again. After all, he played a tremendous part in writing what are some of the best stories ever, relaunching three old characters, and somehow managing to create conceptually original characters to go along with the re-licensed. We are all aware that his hard work brought Valiant to be the third largest comic book publisher. But where did this bring Mr. Shooter? Oh yeah, unemployment.

I still don't understand how you can as much as he did into a company, with such fantastic and over the top results, and be let go. Who cares if he was a control freak and tyrannical. It was obviously in the best interest of the company. Besides, has anyone read the "original" crap that was produced after he left? I love my Valiants, but wtf was Psi-Lords?????

[tmcneil82]

Really sorry if anyone involved in Psi-Lords creation is a member of this board. But seriously, read them. Maybe the Valiant Vision glasses shouldn't be worn during the writing process.

[Crow331]

Maybe the Valiant Vision glasses shouldn't be worn during the writing process.

[Daniel Jackson]

Really sorry if anyone involved in Psi-Lords creation is a member of this board. But seriously, read them.

If so, they haven't been brave enough to speak up so far......

[Phantom..]

psi lords was good.
beter than trinity angles or accliam ninjak

[tmcneil82]

Phantom - I'm sure there were worse, i've only had a chance to read a dozen or so Acclaim comics, mostly Shadow Man and X-O. Most of what i have read there is just awful. I'm sure that i will come across some gems in my reading of the rest of Acclaim.

[iggy101us]

Phantom - I'm sure there were worse, i've only had a chance to read a dozen or so Acclaim comics, mostly Shadow Man and X-O. Most of what i have read there is just awful. I'm sure that i will come across some gems in my reading of the rest of Acclaim.

Try Quantum & Woody and the Master Darque/Darque Passage issues.

[Daniel Jackson]

psi lords was good.
beter than trinity angles or accliam ninjak

I'd say all three were equally bad.....

[superman-prime]

I got to stick up for psi as well i liked it

[MoonChild]

Welcome aboard

I agree with all of the thoughts on Jim not wanting to get into the comic startup problems again. After all, he played a tremendous part in writing what are some of the best stories ever, relaunching three old characters, and somehow managing to create conceptually original characters to go along with the re-licensed. We are all aware that his hard work brought Valiant to be the third largest comic book publisher. But where did this bring Mr. Shooter? Oh yeah, unemployment.

I still don't understand how you can as much as he did into a company, with such fantastic and over the top results, and be let go. Who cares if he was a control freak and tyrannical. It was obviously in the best interest of the company. Besides, has anyone read the "original" crap that was produced after he left? I love my Valiants, but wtf was Psi-Lords?????

[Phantom..]

psi lords was good.
beter than trinity angles or accliam ninjak

I'd say all three were equally bad.....

All right, the glooves are off
If you don't take that back RIGHT NOW, I m going to tell my big brother

[Phantom]

OK, with me arround, that means agreeing with everything my brother says.

Anyway Mum says your off topic, so come inside and have some ice lollies.

[JCVaughn]

psi lords was good.
beter than trinity angles or accliam ninjak

I'd say all three were equally bad.....

I liked the set-up for Trinity Angels.

[Draco]

I think most peoples opinions on Vh2 are based on how not like vh1 they are, not taking them as individual creations which is basically what they are.

I thought vh2 was just fine as a stand alone universe thats connected to vh1 by name only.

It wasnt what the main core fan group wanted, but that alone doesnt make them awful by any means.

Plus Psi lords was fine

[iggy101us]

Plus Psi lords was fine

You should start a site - psilordsfans.com

[Daniel Jackson]

Plus Psi lords was fine

You should start a site - psilordsfans.com

Make that psilordfan.com

[Draco]

Plus Psi lords was fine

You should start a site - psilordsfans.com

It's not taken dude, you may be onto something.

I think i have to finish my Triumphantcomicssfans.com first though to be fair.